TRINITY - PHANTOM Series - New thread + WORLDS FIRST PUSH PULL HYBRID IEM!*

[Jeff Graw]

I'm glad you found tips that are swinging the balance for you Jeff! On that topic, I've found that seal is extremely important with these IEMs. I've settled happily on the Kombi tips. I get them set deep and then REALLY gently pull on them until i feel resistance from a good seal. If I don't get this seal they sound flatter with less detail. With the seal, I'm flying high!

Yup, tips are super important. Didn't have much luck with the Kombis myself though. The veiled and distant attribute I mentioned before was more or less fixed when I found the right tips, which in itself was a huge improvement. I think overnight burn may have helped a bit as well, although the perceived difference is subtle enough that it could also all be in my head

I wonder, Jeff, are you used to really premium gear? Personally I never spend more than $150 Canadian on phones.

I have and know what premium gear sounds like, but I also have mid-fi and lower end gear that I use depending on situation and mood. I find the more you listen to the lower end stuff the more you appreciate the high end. I expect my lower end gear to be relaxed and easier to listen to in return for decreased resolution and resolve. The Masters sound like they're trying to be high end, but lack fundamentals and are tuned kind of funny. It's by no means a perfect match, but they remind me a bit of the Denon/Fostex D2000-7000 range. But worse obviously, since those cans are quite smooth and these are not.

- Sub-bass extension is not great, though slightly better compared to the PM4.
- Speaking of bass: There is a huge mid-bass hump with pretty much every filter besides blue, orange and to some extend green.

In the absence of good bass extension I think some amount of a mid-bass hump is necessary or things start to sound lifeless. Between the two, I'd still rather have a flat low end response with great extension of course (Eg. Audeze LCD line).

Large dip around 5-7kHz with the black dampened filters. Also there is a 9kHz spike, similar to the Phantom Sabre. (graph - blue filters)

That graph explains a few things, for sure.

As far as my impressions are concerned. The Masters are alright, but nothing extraordinary. I like the Blue and Green filters a lot, though they are outclassed by my (still) favorite earphone: The FLC8s. However as its stands, for the 60 GBP paid, I can't really complain. Albeit at retail this is another story.

My impression is certainly becoming less negative, but I still don't think I'd recommend these for retail price either. Maybe $150. I guess a decent amount of the price down to the sheer amount of accessories and awesome packaging. The amount of accessories might not be a good thing though. Besides driving up the price, with 12 pairs of filters I imagine it's harder to find a coherent, compelling tuning.

It came with Kombi tips, case, extra cable (balanced I guess) and the standard accessories.

Huh. I got everything you did, except mine didn't come with the balanced cable.

 

[sejsel]

Yup, tips are super important. Didn't have much luck with the Kombis myself though. The veiled and distant attribute I mentioned before was more or less fixed when I found the right tips, which in itself was a huge improvement. I think overnight burn may have helped a bit as well, although the perceived difference is subtle enough that it could also all be in my head



I have and know what premium gear sounds like, but I also have mid-fi and lower end gear that I use depending on situation and mood. I find the more you listen to the lower end stuff the more you appreciate the high end. I expect my lower end gear to be relaxed and easier to listen to in return for decreased resolution and resolve. The Masters sound like they're trying to be high end, but lack fundamentals and are tuned kind of funny. It's by no means a perfect match, but they remind me a bit of the Denon/Fostex D2000-7000 range. But worse obviously, since those cans are quite smooth and these are not.



In the absence of good bass extension I think some amount of a mid-bass hump is necessary or things start to sound lifeless. Between the two, I'd still rather have a flat low end response with great extension of course (Eg. Audeze LCD line).



That graph explains a few things, for sure.



My impression is certainly becoming less negative, but I still don't think I'd recommend these for retail price either. Maybe $150. I guess a decent amount of the price down to the sheer amount of accessories and awesome packaging. The amount of accessories might not be a good thing though. Besides driving up the price, with 12 pairs of filters I imagine it's harder to find a coherent, compelling tuning.



Huh. I got everything you did, except mine didn't come with the balanced cable.

Interesting impressions, to say the least...
For the price, with the rebate, and possibly even for the regular price, these - I would say - are very good IEMs, and I would humbly beg to differ on some impressions stated in the quote above.
At home i use AKG K701 and Grado GS1000, as well as Audio Technica ATH MSR7 (gunmetal) with either Dragonfly Red od AudioEngine D3 USB DAC(s).
Prior to the Audio Technica ATH-MSR 7s I have tried really hard to like Denon AH-MM400, for portable use, and simply couldn't live with the overbearing and suffocating bass presence there - simply stated, very dark headphone. And this is the can that allegedly uses the same technology used in Denon AHD2000 and up the old range, so this is the reference to the quoted post in some way.
Admittedly, AHD2000 is still deemed as far better sounding than AH MM400 from Denon.

All of the over the ear cans I use at home are certainly not, by today's standards, high end gear, but are known for rendering, separation and detail, read any of review of these - even if all of them are now closer to midfi than high end gear - GS1000 perhaps, coupled with the right (well chosen tube) headamp comes still somewhat close to the higher echelon cathegory.
Of the same headphone amp - Quad PA One - Hifiman HE400 and Senn HD700 sounded now worth even looking at, compared to GS1000.

After listening to Masters for almost a week, I have moved even to purple undamped filters, bass quantity is more than enough on the a lot of
EDM music nowadays not to need bass enhancement.

Choosing the right tips for the seal and hence getting the most of the IEM sound is essential.

Even if I can see most of the points raised by this and one other user in their - somewhat less favourable reviews, I still think these opinions sound like those of the people expecting the absolute top notch, high-end gear, rather that a IEM heavily rebated.

Compared to the gear I use, with all abovementioned "flaws" mentioned (easily alleviated with the carefully chosen filters matched with - or even without the dac and amp) - Masters are that good that I think it's difficult to ask for the better IEM for the money.

I anyone looks for the truly "blow your socks off" high-end gear, sorry, today that comes with the heavy price tag, and not always fulfilling the expectations. Senn HD700 and Hifiman HE400, although admittedly not the very High End these days, were really rude awakening to me in that regard, but it could have been the amp matching as well, Grado GS1000 sounded far superior, beyond any comparison, of the same amp.
The difference was actually extremely hearable and quite remarkable.

Trinity still have the offerings that are higher priced, so it's easy, wallet permitted, to take a plunge there... I think some of the criticism in the quotes and some earlier posts from the same user would have been far more justified if similar flaws were to have been found in the higher-end models from Trinity.

I had modest expectation - despite the favourable reviews - almost unanimously - from Masters, and to me they are - for the price, a really pleasant surprise. They scale well with the decent amplification (to me power hungry gear is somewhat sign of a good quality gear), run well straight of the Iphone and Mac's DAC, they are quite merciless on poor source, even with some of the traces of the "flaws" mentioned, honestly,
difficult to find the better IEM for the money. Not lagging that much behind my ATH - MSR7s - which are over the ear, with 40 or 45 mm drivers.

They render the music well, aren't thrown off by the very crowded and complex passages, separation and layering is really there, I would say even the soundstage - for the IEM in this, and above its price range.

But then again - one has to listen and review a lot of gear to voice a strong opinion on other's reviews and on the gear in question itself.

I would be interesting to hear more opinions on this subject here - Masters vs. other IEMs in their price range.

As an addendum, I am a bit suprised by my own switch from the yesterday evening to the purple undamped filters, since the bass is still more than enough, whereas I get more of the goody-stuff from the rest of the register...

 

[IamMe90]

snip

Have you tried the blue filter? I felt basically same way about these until I used that filter. To me it's by far the most neutral sounding of the filters and a big difference in quality. Just thought I'd chime in here.

 

[sejsel]

Have you tried the blue filter? I felt basically same way about these until I used that filter. To me it's by far the most neutral sounding of the filters and a big difference in quality. Just thought I'd chime in here.

I, for one, would be really interested to hear the comparison, from any of the members, on the blue filter vs. purple filter.
Thus far, a purple undamped is unexpected and nice surprise.
I wouldn't want to exaggerate this; I thought that purples were no-no, but quite the opposite, actually... Even if I am highly against the altering the nature of the headphone with the use of the filters, there is a value in the number of filters offered with Masters.

I am curious how some of the damped filters unavailable as undamped would sound without dampening screens attached inside...

 

[Jeff Graw]

Even if I can see most of the points raised by this and one other user in their - somewhat less favourable reviews, I still think these opinions sound like those of the people expecting the absolute top notch, high-end gear, rather that a IEM heavily rebated.

Compared to the gear I use, with all abovementioned "flaws" mentioned (easily alleviated with the carefully chosen filters matched with - or even without the dac and amp) - Masters are that good that I think it's difficult to ask for the better IEM for the money.

I anyone looks for the truly "blow your socks off" high-end gear, sorry, today that comes with the heavy price tag, and not always fulfilling the expectations. Senn HD700 and Hifiman HE400, although admittedly not the very High End these days, were really rude awakening to me in that regard, but it could have been the amp matching as well, Grado GS1000 sounded far superior, beyond any comparison, of the same amp.
The difference was actually extremely hearable and quite remarkable.

Good hifi is cheaper than ever these days. You can pick up a set of AKG K7XX's on massdrop right now (and seemingly every other week) for $200 that blow the socks off the Masters in every way possible, besides not being an IEM of course. Now, I'm not very experienced with IEMs to put it lightly, but my understanding is that, while there are exceptions, you don't generally get quite as good SQ/$ as you do for full sized headphones. But the gulf between the K7XX and the Masters is gargantuan. It's hard to rationalise the later selling for a higher price than the former. Of course, at the discounted price we head-fiers paid the Masters were a good deal, no denying that.

Have you tried the blue filter? I felt basically same way about these until I used that filter. To me it's by far the most neutral sounding of the filters and a big difference in quality. Just thought I'd chime in here.

It's more neutral than purple, for sure. If the Masters had significantly better bass extension they'd be my filter of choice, and even then I think they're the best filter for bass heavy genres like EDM. However, for most other listening I prefer the purples. The higher mid bass emphasis feels necessary as a substitute for bass extension lest well recorded songs start to feel a bit on the anaemic side. I do find myself wishing there was a filter between purple and blue though, since the mid-bass emphasis on the purples is a tad much.

 

[IamMe90]

Good hifi is cheaper than ever these days. You can pick up a set of AKG K7XX's on massdrop right now (and seemingly every other week) for $200 that blow the socks off the Masters in every way possible, besides not being an IEM of course. Now, I'm not very experienced with IEMs to put it lightly, but my understanding is that, while there are exceptions, you don't generally get quite as good SQ/$ as you do for full sized headphones. But the gulf between the K7XX and the Masters is gargantuan. It's hard to rationalise the later selling for a higher price than the former. Of course, at the discounted price we head-fiers paid the Masters were a good deal, no denying that.



It's more neutral than purple, for sure. If the Masters had significantly better bass extension they'd be my filter of choice, and even then I think they're the best filter for bass heavy genres like EDM. However, for most other listening I prefer the purples. The higher mid bass emphasis feels necessary as a substitute for bass extension lest well recorded songs start to feel a bit on the anaemic side. I do find myself wishing there was a filter between purple and blue though, since the mid-bass emphasis on the purples is a tad much.

Dampened or undampened purple?

 

[sejsel]

Good hifi is cheaper than ever these days. You can pick up a set of AKG K7XX's on massdrop right now (and seemingly every other week) for $200 that blow the socks off the Masters in every way possible, besides not being an IEM of course. Now, I'm not very experienced with IEMs to put it lightly, but my understanding is that, while there are exceptions, you don't generally get quite as good SQ/$ as you do for full sized headphones. But the gulf between the K7XX and the Masters is gargantuan. It's hard to rationalise the later selling for a higher price than the former. Of course, at the discounted price we head-fiers paid the Masters were a good deal, no denying that.



It's more neutral than purple, for sure. If the Masters had significantly better bass extension they'd be my filter of choice, and even then I think they're the best filter for bass heavy genres like EDM. However, for most other listening I prefer the purples. The higher mid bass emphasis feels necessary as a substitute for bass extension lest well recorded songs start to feel a bit on the anaemic side.

Regarding the AKG K7xx, I have not had them, and my suspicion is still that K701 would be more tilted to my preference, according to some reviews, K7XX is somewhat sonically different.

Your reasoning would probably hold, except for the fact that K701 can be found in retail for the ridiculous price (try Thomman.de) and are honestly - for what they are, for the given best price way underpriced.

Expecting this very IEM to be as good or even near, for the same price or similar, as K701 coupled with the right headphone amp is in my opinion, still a bit of a stretch, to say the least. If for nothing else, then for the physical boundaries of what you can cream into the cans and amps in question, even if we keep in mind a 10+ year release gap. Try going down the street with the K701 and headphone amp and power source, as with Iphone and Masters, with Dragonfly Red. Perhaps a thought overlooked, but not less present nevertheless...

Purple Undamped seem to have become a filter of choice for the moment for me as well, haven't tried the blue one, so feel free to give the comparison, it would be more than appreciated.

I do wish actually to find an IEM similar or close, or same as K701 - soundwise, please do tell if You have found something like that.
I wouldn't be surprised if You did, the problem is that my frame of reference is, I suspect, far more narrow than yours.

I look at things also from the engineering perspective, and that's always an art of compromise, performance vs. cost, etc.

 

[sejsel]

Dampened or undampened purple?

Just to chime in on this, curious to the response on this as well... tried both yesterday evening, both are good, but I am currently with undamped.
Highly track and source dependent though, but putting - as we speak - the undamped purple through its' paces, and not suffering from neither sibilance nor piercing sounds in the high(er) registers...

 

[Jeff Graw]

Dampened or undampened purple?

Undamped.

[the K7XX are] for what they are, for the given best price way underpriced.

True, but they're readily available at that price, not some one off. That means that there's a lot of pressure to competitive around the same price.

Expecting this very IEM to be as good or even near, for the same price or similar, as K701 coupled with the right headphone amp is in my opinion, still a bit of a stretch, to say the least. If for nothing else, then for the physical boundaries of what you can cream into the cans and amps in question, even if we keep in mind a 10+ year release gap. Try going down the street with the K701 and headphone amp and power source, as with Iphone and Masters, with Dragonfly Red. Perhaps a thought overlooked, but not less present nevertheless...

Yeah, it's a stretch to expect them to be as good. But within some degree of throwing distance would be nice, seeing as they cost more. The gap is more of a chasm though.

I do wish actually to find an IEM similar or close, or same as K701 - soundwise, please do tell if You have found something like that.
I wouldn't be surprised if You did, the problem is that my frame of reference is, I suspect, far more narrow than yours.

I'd like that too, sadly I don't have much experience with IEMs compared to full sized headphones. I do know some cheap $20 Chinese IEMs that sound better than headphones that go for over twice the price though. Maybe there's a $200 IEM from some obscure Chinese company that manages something similar, which would put it more or less in line with the K7XX's.

I look at things also from the engineering perspective, and that's always an art of compromise, performance vs. cost, etc.

From a cost vs. performance perspective, I'd prefer a better IEM with less accessories, less customizability, and more refinement. Something more or less neutral with good bass extension, well tuned, no big peaks or valleys in weird places, instead of 12 sets of filters that each have tragic flaws with some being so terrible (eg. the default reds. Trinity, do yourself a huge favour and don't let these be the first thing customers hear!) that they may as well go straight to the trash.

 

[IamMe90]

Actually, now that I think of it, I think the purples are the only filters I haven't tried out yet... think I'm gonna go test that out now. Thanks for the inspiration, guys.

 

[IamMe90]

Wow, I gotta say.. these undamped purples are actually sounding pretty dope! I'm having a hard time deciding whether I still prefer blue or if these are a bit better...

Will have to do more side-by-side listening and make a determination.

 

[guysmileeey]

I'm loving the quality discussion going on over these Masters!

I'm getting the impression that the Master comes close to running with the big boys from a bigger price point. To those who have heard the big boys sing, it sounds like the Master doesn't quite keep up. For those of us who haven't spent more on headphones, I feel the Masters aim for a refinement we're not used to hearing at this price point. My akg553 are more neutral with a flat response, deeper sub extension, and wider soundstage, but for pleasure listening I keep turning to the Master's quick and impactful bass, "fun" v-shape response, customizable tuning, and detail retrieval on par with the akg.

While the carbon caps have a interesting look, the beveled edges of the metal caps are far more comfortable. I haven't looked back since switching them.

The key I've found to balance the robust weight is to tighten the cable cinch to the sweet spot at the back of the neck. Once this is set I find the weight of the earphones and of the beefy cable connector fade away and I can barely notice I'm wearing IEMs. I'm starting to think that I'm lucky enough to be getting a perfect fit with the Masters! In my experience, it's all about setting the cinch to the back of my neck and getting the tips to seal where I can pull gently outwards and feel that resistance. Once I'm set, I can exercise, I can eat, do chores all without the need to fiddle with the fit.

 

[sejsel]

Undamped.



True, but they're readily available at that price, not some one off. That means that there's a lot of pressure to competitive around the price point.



Yeah, it's a stretch to expect them to be as good. But within some degree of throwing distance would be nice, seeing as they cost more. The gap is more of a chasm though.



I'd like that too, sadly I don't have much experience with IEMs compared to full sized headphones. I do know some cheap $20 Chinese IEMs that sound better than headphones that go for over twice the price though. Maybe there's a $200 IEM from some obscure Chinese company that manages something similar, which would put it more or less in line with the K7XX's.



From a cost vs. performance perspective, I'd prefer a better IEM with less accessories, less customizability, and more refinement. Something more or less neutral with good bass extension, well tuned, no big peaks or valleys in weird places, instead of 12 sets of filters that each have tragic flaws with some being so terrible (eg. the default reds. Trinity, do yourself a huge favour and don't use let these be the first thing customers hear!) that they may as well go straight to the trash.

As a reflection to some of the statements here, well... there is probably physical bound to what you can achieve (again, this is highly speculative) regarding the mids, but in particular regarding highs and soundstage, even layering and separation - with IEMs vs. full sized cans - and anyone who has more experience and knows better, please do correct me here, as there are hidiously expensive IEMs these days available on the market.

Yes, I would be inclined to choose the path of (in principal) more refined IEM vs. the nr. of fiters, but that includes more expensive components, probably even more or higher quality drivers, more R&D, and let's face it, that would cost far more, I suspect.
I am not against the proposal, on the contrary...

There are so many IEMs on the market today that it is really difficult to make a clear picture of where a certain IEMs stand in terms of SQ vs the price; generally not as available for test listening as over the ears either.

 

[sejsel]

Wow, I gotta say.. these undamped purples are actually sounding pretty dope! I'm having a hard time deciding whether I still prefer blue or if these are a bit better...

Will have to do more side-by-side listening and make a determination.

Well, they should, since they are meant to take nothing away from the mids and highs... what really surprised me with purples undamped was no lack of bass quantity and quality with today's EDM recordings, I suspected that should be the case, but no, not really...

I have not heard the blue ones yet. On one hand, I suspect any sort of damping is muffling the sound, on the other, with all the screwing and unscrewing of the filters I feel like venturing into the IKEA landscape somewhat...

 

[IamMe90]

I'm loving the quality discussion going on over these Masters!

I'm getting the impression that the Master comes close to running with the big boys from a bigger price point. To those who have heard the big boys sing, it sounds like the Master doesn't quite keep up. For those of us who haven't spent more on headphones, I feel the Masters aim for a refinement we're not used to hearing at this price point. My akg553 are more neutral with a flat response, deeper sub extension, and wider soundstage, but for pleasure listening I keep turning to the Master's quick and impactful bass, "fun" v-shape response, customizable tuning, and detail retrieval on par with the akg.

While the carbon caps have a interesting look, the beveled edges of the metal caps are far more comfortable. I haven't looked back since switching them.

The key I've found to balance the robust weight is to tighten the cable cinch to the sweet spot at the back of the neck. Once this is set I find the weight of the earphones and of the beefy cable connector fade away and I can barely notice I'm wearing IEMs. I'm starting to think that I'm lucky enough to be getting a perfect fit with the Masters! In my experience, it's all about setting the cinch to the back of my neck and getting the tips to seal where I can pull gently outwards and feel that resistance. Once I'm set, I can exercise, I can eat, do chores all without the need to fiddle with the fit.

Whoa, I never thought about actually pulling the cable back BEHIND my head and onto my neck! Just did that now and it feels awesome! Thanks!