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TRINITY - PHANTOM Series - New thread + WORLDS FIRST PUSH PULL HYBRID IEM!*

Feb 11, 2016 at 8:13 AM Post #182 of 24,683
brooko said:
 

Trinity Sabre Prototype – First look at the Phantom Series


 
So if you’re on this thread, you already know who Bob is, and who Trinity Audio is, so I won’t go through a big preamble.  I also won’t go into depth on my preferences – just grab any of my recent reviews and you’ll get a good idea of what my bias are, and what generally makes me tick when it comes to preference.
 
So what is this then?  Simply my impressions after 5 days listening to Bob’s prototype Sabre IEMs.  I’m not going to go into huge detail like my normal reviews, and I’m not going to rank them – simply because they are a prototype – a work in progress.  But I thought you’d be interested is getting a closer look before the KS campaigns eventuate.
 
Packaging / Accessories
The Sabres arrived in Trinity’s normal book style box – this just had the Phantom logo on a paper sticker on the front.  Inside is the usual tip configuration (look for any Atlas review – you’ll get the idea).  There is a space for two filter containers, and pretty sure Bob is going to include 4-5 sets for those who like to tinker.  The case is the normal triangular Trinity zip-up “clamshell” case and includes a shirt clip, and the right angled adaptor.
 

 
 
Build
The Sabres are circular, 15mm in diameter, with a depth of 10mm, and a nozzle length of 5mm.  The nozzles are Bob’s usual tuning filters, and extend on an angle of about 45 degrees forward or upward (depending on the position of the cable). The nozzles with the prototype were very firmly wedged in place, so I couldn’t undo them – but this is only the prototype – the real model will have removable filters.  There is a pinhole rear port on the other shell.

 

 

 
The cable this time is 2 pin (yay), but ignore the photos – they’re just there to show you the connectors.  The Sabre shipped with a generic cable for testing and Bob will supply his real cables for the final product. So I won’t comment further on the cable except to say that the connectors work well, and personally I’m pretty happy to be stepping away from MMCX.
 
Fit / Isolation
I’ve already discussed a lot of this with Bob, Alex and Vince – so these are merely observances to show you the thought processes we go through when evaluating.  The shape in-ear is very comfortable, and for me sits inside the outer ear, so really easy to lie on my side while listening. The position of the cable – because of the circular shape, can be pretty much changed to suit your own preference – but just bear in mind that it can affect the angle of the nozzle.

 

 
For me, the nozzle is far too short, and I really struggled with fit (quite shallow).  I had to use large silicones or large Comply.  The silicones unfortunately gave me quite a bit of driver flex, but this could just be my own anatomy.  Bob has already said that he’s going to be including longer filters (which will definitely help my own personal situation), and he’s going to have a look at porting when he gets them back again. So both of my concerns regarding fit are already on the agenda to be fixed.
 
Once you get a good seal though, they are decently comfortable, and isolate pretty well with music playing.  I’d say above average for dynamic drivers.
 
Sonics
Usual disclaimer – I heard these with my ears, which are nowhere near perfect, and these are my biased impressions of the Sabre prototype.
 

 
General sound sig – bassy (especially sub bass) – big, bold, and those looking a warmer back end will like the Sabre I think.  Mid-range is a bit recessed, but vocal presence area is still pretty good.  Really clear in the vocals, and good command of detail.  Really smooth lower treble – and there is enough of this there, but it isn’t etched.
 
Soundstage – appears a little bigger than normal, but I think some of this can be attributed to the recession in the mid-range, and some to a little more reverb or decay being present.  Good sense of width and depth though.  Applause at the end of Dante’s Prayer was enveloping.
 
Sibilance – doesn’t appear a lot of the time for me (not noticeable), but on tracks where I’m actively listening (Let It Rain) there was still some heat.  Those sensitive to a 9 kHz peak might need to engage some EQ.
 
Bass – Impactful, visceral, but smooth, and not a lot of bleed (mainly because it is heightened lower bass).  Really enjoyed it for the first few hours, but most that know me (or have read my reviews) will know that I’m not big on an overly bassy signature.  After a while the Sabre got too much for me. I know with filter choices, I should be able to fix it.  A few EQ cuts and I enjoyed it a lot more.  I’ll need to use a less bassy filter
 
Female vocals – Just the way I like them, sweet, and effortless.  Bob never gets female vocals wrong – the Sabre is no exception.  Delicious.
 
Male vocals – yep really like this. Vedder was good – nice tonality, a bit too much bass guitar coming through but vocals were pretty much spot on.
 
Genres generally – pretty good with most genres, detail helped Jazz tracks, and rock generally was very good.  Not such a big fan with classical, and anything too bass heavy was fun – but not to my tastes.  Definitely lovers of a warm sound are going to really dig these – I did for a start.  For me they do just a little too much.
 
Comparison other IEMs
Nothing I have sounds really that close – these are quite a unique sound.  For a bassy V shaped IEM, they don’t do what most do – and that is over heat the treble too much.  They’re still a bit dark for me – but I think that is really the smoothness coming through.
 
I graphed these in comparison to IEMs with similar shape (see below) and although some have similar shapes, none even come that close to what I’m hearing with the Sabre. Many of them have a similar mid-range and lower treble signature, but it’s that lower bass that really sets them apart from everything else.
 
VS A83
Thought these would be quite close.  Both exhibit a lot of clarity, and both have a V shape – but where A83’s V is gentle, Sabres is much more pronounced.  Sabre has a lot more bass and A83 is more vocal forward and brighter.
 

 
Vs Titan 5
These were actually a bit more similar – especially in their presentation of vocals.  Titan 5 is brighter and a bit hotter especially with cymbals. Again the Sabre has a lot more low bass and is a lot smoother.
 

 
Vs Delta
Probably the two that are most similar, but again that extra low bass of the Sabre kicks in, and that is where the major difference is. I haven’t listened to the Delta for a while, and this was a chance to be reminded how truly excellent they really are.  Both are V shaped, both have very clear vocals and a smooth treble presence.  But the Delta for my tastes still has the better balance.
 

 

Summary

Well made – check.  Relatively comfortable – check.  Good fit – I’ll leave that until I get to try the longer filters.
 
Good sound sig – generally I’d say yes – but it’s not my sound sig.  I think a lot of people will like the Sabre, and I’ll be interested in Alex and Vince’s impressions when they get it. Bob said in the beginning that he didn’t think it would be my “cup of tea” – and he’s right.  Too much low end for me.  I’ll be interested in getting another listen of the final tuning though – especially once the filters are released.  There is definitely something about the mid-range and lower treble which is quite appealing.
 
Footnote – sorry for lack of specs.  I hope Bob will be able to step in and publish impedance / sensitivity etc.  And I can’t really explain the push pull tech (help please Bob?). From what I’ve read so far – it looks like it assists with lowering HF distortion.
 
Final note
Sorry for the brevity and lack of detail.  Have been running a series of 11-14 hour days with work, and I'm whacked (really, really tired).  Needed to get these away to Alex so he can give his impressions.  Please don't take my word as gospel, and remember that all of this is feedback to Bob so he can then make decisions based on all of what we note. I don't think he's set a foot wrong in any of the campaigns so far - so I trust him to get these right too.  I also have no idea of which filter was included on the prototypes - it could be the bassy one.  And lastly - the measurement system I use is good for comparisons but is still only raw data (no compensations applied).  So don't read too much into them :)
Click to expand...


Thanks for this Paul.
 
The filter installed is the most bass heavy filter and we are working on the new ones as we speak. I was testing a few moments ago and have a filter that is to your taste.
 
The push pull is to reduce the distortion and also ups the resolution in my opinion.
 
For the final filters i am deciding on 2 different versions and may include both (damped and undamped).
 
Cant wait to get the collectives feedback and we can look at the final pre-production test units.
 
Feb 11, 2016 at 9:42 AM Post #187 of 24,683
brooko said:

Trinity Sabre Prototype – First look at the Phantom Series






So if you’re on this thread, you already know who Bob is, and who Trinity Audio is, so I won’t go through a big preamble.  I also won’t go into depth on my preferences – just grab any of my recent reviews and you’ll get a good idea of what my bias are, and what generally makes me tick when it comes to preference.

So what is this then?  Simply my impressions after 5 days listening to Bob’s prototype Sabre IEMs.  I’m not going to go into huge detail like my normal reviews, and I’m not going to rank them – simply because they are a prototype – a work in progress.  But I thought you’d be interested is getting a closer look before the KS campaigns eventuate.

Packaging / Accessories
The Sabres arrived in Trinity’s normal book style box – this just had the Phantom logo on a paper sticker on the front.  Inside is the usual tip configuration (look for any Atlas review – you’ll get the idea).  There is a space for two filter containers, and pretty sure Bob is going to include 4-5 sets for those who like to tinker.  The case is the normal triangular Trinity zip-up “clamshell” case and includes a shirt clip, and the right angled adaptor.





Build
The Sabres are circular, 15mm in diameter, with a depth of 10mm, and a nozzle length of 5mm.  The nozzles are Bob’s usual tuning filters, and extend on an angle of about 45 degrees forward or upward (depending on the position of the cable). The nozzles with the prototype were very firmly wedged in place, so I couldn’t undo them – but this is only the prototype – the real model will have removable filters.  There is a pinhole rear port on the other shell.









The cable this time is 2 pin (yay), but ignore the photos – they’re just there to show you the connectors.  The Sabre shipped with a generic cable for testing and Bob will supply his real cables for the final product. So I won’t comment further on the cable except to say that the connectors work well, and personally I’m pretty happy to be stepping away from MMCX.

Fit / Isolation
I’ve already discussed a lot of this with Bob, Alex and Vince – so these are merely observances to show you the thought processes we go through when evaluating.  The shape in-ear is very comfortable, and for me sits inside the outer ear, so really easy to lie on my side while listening. The position of the cable – because of the circular shape, can be pretty much changed to suit your own preference – but just bear in mind that it can affect the angle of the nozzle.






For me, the nozzle is far too short, and I really struggled with fit (quite shallow).  I had to use large silicones or large Comply.  The silicones unfortunately gave me quite a bit of driver flex, but this could just be my own anatomy.  Bob has already said that he’s going to be including longer filters (which will definitely help my own personal situation), and he’s going to have a look at porting when he gets them back again. So both of my concerns regarding fit are already on the agenda to be fixed.

Once you get a good seal though, they are decently comfortable, and isolate pretty well with music playing.  I’d say above average for dynamic drivers.

Sonics
Usual disclaimer – I heard these with my ears, which are nowhere near perfect, and these are my biased impressions of the Sabre prototype.




[COLOR=0000CD]General sound sig[/COLOR] – bassy (especially sub bass) – big, bold, and those looking a warmer back end will like the Sabre I think.  Mid-range is a bit recessed, but vocal presence area is still pretty good.  Really clear in the vocals, and good command of detail.  Really smooth lower treble – and there is enough of this there, but it isn’t etched.

[COLOR=0000CD]Soundstage[/COLOR] – appears a little bigger than normal, but I think some of this can be attributed to the recession in the mid-range, and some to a little more reverb or decay being present.  Good sense of width and depth though.  Applause at the end of Dante’s Prayer was enveloping.

[COLOR=0000CD]Sibilance[/COLOR] – doesn’t appear a lot of the time for me (not noticeable), but on tracks where I’m actively listening (Let It Rain) there was still some heat.  Those sensitive to a 9 kHz peak might need to engage some EQ.

[COLOR=0000CD]Bass[/COLOR] – Impactful, visceral, but smooth, and not a lot of bleed (mainly because it is heightened lower bass).  Really enjoyed it for the first few hours, but most that know me (or have read my reviews) will know that I’m not big on an overly bassy signature.  After a while the Sabre got too much for me. I know with filter choices, I should be able to fix it.  A few EQ cuts and I enjoyed it a lot more.  I’ll need to use a less bassy filter

[COLOR=0000CD]Female vocals[/COLOR] – Just the way I like them, sweet, and effortless.  Bob never gets female vocals wrong – the Sabre is no exception.  Delicious.

[COLOR=0000CD]Male vocals[/COLOR] – yep really like this. Vedder was good – nice tonality, a bit too much bass guitar coming through but vocals were pretty much spot on.

[COLOR=0000CD]Genres generally[/COLOR] – pretty good with most genres, detail helped Jazz tracks, and rock generally was very good.  Not such a big fan with classical, and anything too bass heavy was fun – but not to my tastes.  Definitely lovers of a warm sound are going to really dig these – I did for a start.  For me they do just a little too much.

Comparison other IEMs
Nothing I have sounds really that close – these are quite a unique sound.  For a bassy V shaped IEM, they don’t do what most do – and that is over heat the treble too much.  They’re still a bit dark for me – but I think that is really the smoothness coming through.

I graphed these in comparison to IEMs with similar shape (see below) and although some have similar shapes, none even come that close to what I’m hearing with the Sabre. Many of them have a similar mid-range and lower treble signature, but it’s that lower bass that really sets them apart from everything else.

[COLOR=0000CD]VS A83[/COLOR]
Thought these would be quite close.  Both exhibit a lot of clarity, and both have a V shape – but where A83’s V is gentle, Sabres is much more pronounced.  Sabre has a lot more bass and A83 is more vocal forward and brighter.




[COLOR=0000CD]Vs Titan 5[/COLOR]
These were actually a bit more similar – especially in their presentation of vocals.  Titan 5 is brighter and a bit hotter especially with cymbals. Again the Sabre has a lot more low bass and is a lot smoother.




[COLOR=0000CD]Vs Delta[/COLOR]
Probably the two that are most similar, but again that extra low bass of the Sabre kicks in, and that is where the major difference is. I haven’t listened to the Delta for a while, and this was a chance to be reminded how truly excellent they really are.  Both are V shaped, both have very clear vocals and a smooth treble presence.  But the Delta for my tastes still has the better balance.




Summary



Well made – check.  Relatively comfortable – check.  Good fit – I’ll leave that until I get to try the longer filters.

Good sound sig – generally I’d say yes – but it’s not my sound sig.  I think a lot of people will like the Sabre, and I’ll be interested in Alex and Vince’s impressions when they get it. Bob said in the beginning that he didn’t think it would be my “cup of tea” – and he’s right.  Too much low end for me.  I’ll be interested in getting another listen of the final tuning though – especially once the filters are released.  There is definitely something about the mid-range and lower treble which is quite appealing.

Footnote – sorry for lack of specs.  I hope Bob will be able to step in and publish impedance / sensitivity etc.  And I can’t really explain the push pull tech (help please Bob?). From what I’ve read so far – it looks like it assists with lowering HF distortion.

[COLOR=0000CD]Final note[/COLOR]
Sorry for the brevity and lack of detail.  Have been running a series of 11-14 hour days with work, and I'm whacked (really, really tired).  Needed to get these away to Alex so he can give his impressions.  Please don't take my word as gospel, and remember that all of this is feedback to Bob so he can then make decisions based on all of what we note. I don't think he's set a foot wrong in any of the campaigns so far - so I trust him to get these right too.  I also have no idea of which filter was included on the prototypes - it could be the bassy one.  And lastly - the measurement system I use is good for comparisons but is still only raw data (no compensations applied).  So don't read too much into them :)
Click to expand...




Thamks for the first impression brooko

@bob im really hoping for a forward midrange with wide soundstage for the phantom master though, combined with that sub bass i have heard the fitear parterre and was really impressed by how forward the mid is but again its pretty darm expensive haha

@brooko @ vince and alex have any of u guys ever heard or audition fitear parterre???
 
Feb 11, 2016 at 9:53 AM Post #188 of 24,683
Not excited about this as compared to the proposed Phantom Pure or Phantom Bass
frown.gif

 
Feb 11, 2016 at 9:56 AM Post #189 of 24,683
lukito09 said:
 
Click to expand...


I have heard the Parterre. It has massive soundstage and very forward mids. Very excellent imaging. Basically it is a warm Unique Melody Mason ( if u have tried it before) Cheers!
beerchug.gif

P.S Japanese iems are hard to be emulated because of their excellent craftmanship, their own system for sound reproduction and tuning.
Fitear, Final Audio Design, Ocharakus. Take the case of Final Audio Design despite utilising a single BA driver, you will be surprised at its soundstage. Similarly for Ocharakus, the flagship of the Flat 4 Series, Flat 4 Kaede Type II has a resolution and imaging second to none.
 
Feb 11, 2016 at 10:13 AM Post #190 of 24,683
audio123 said:
I have heard the Parterre. It has massive soundstage and very forward mids. Very excellent imaging. Basically it is a warm Unique Melody Mason ( if u have tried it before) Cheers! :beerchug:
P.S Japanese iems are hard to be emulated because of their excellent craftmanship, their own system for sound reproduction and tuning.
Fitear, Final Audio Design, Ocharakus. Take the case of Final Audio Design despite utilising a single BA driver, you will be surprised at its soundstage. Similarly for Ocharakus, the flagship of the Flat 4 Series, Flat 4 Kaede Type II has a resolution and imaging second to none.
Click to expand...



I agree while im not expecting anything that equal or better than fitear, but im just hoping it will remind me of parterre when i listen to phantom master though. I agree with you 100% on the very forward mids and massive soundstage its just like listening to live orchestea which blown my mind away, if the phantom master has (very) forward mid that would be perfect for me :)
 
Feb 11, 2016 at 10:15 AM Post #191 of 24,683
lukito09 said:
I agree while im not expecting anything that equal or better than fitear, but im just hoping it will remind me of parterre when i listen to phantom master though. I agree with you 100% on the very forward mids and massive soundstage its just like listening to live orchestea which blown my mind away, if the phantom master has (very) forward mid that would be perfect for me
smily_headphones1.gif
Click to expand...


I would not think that the phantom master has forward mid because of this statement:
VS A83
Thought these would be quite close.  Both exhibit a lot of clarity, and both have a V shape – but where A83’s V is gentle, Sabres is much more pronounced.  Sabre has a lot more bass and A83 is more vocal forward and brighter.
I personally think you would like Final Audio Design Piano Forte X or FI-BA-SS
 
Feb 11, 2016 at 10:18 AM Post #192 of 24,683
audio123 said:
I would not think that the phantom master has forward mid because of this statement:
[COLOR=0000CD]VS A83[/COLOR]

Thought these would be quite close.  Both exhibit a lot of clarity, and both have a V shape – but where A83’s V is gentle, Sabres is much more pronounced.  Sabre has a lot more bass and A83 is more vocal forward and brighter.
I personally think you would like Final Audio Design Piano Forte X or FI-BA-SS
Click to expand...


Guess ill put them on my list for the next audition but i guess those two would break my bank :D
 
Feb 11, 2016 at 10:19 AM Post #193 of 24,683
lukito09 said:
I agree while im not expecting anything that equal or better than fitear, but im just hoping it will remind me of parterre when i listen to phantom master though. I agree with you 100% on the very forward mids and massive soundstage its just like listening to live orchestea which blown my mind away, if the phantom master has (very) forward mid that would be perfect for me :)
Click to expand...


We can bring mids forward on the filters, but i dont tune them to be predominant over the rest of the range.
 
Feb 11, 2016 at 10:23 AM Post #194 of 24,683
audio123 said:
Not excited about this as compared to the proposed Phantom Pure or Phantom Bass :(
Click to expand...


We built both and by comparison they was technically excellent but boring.

Be mindful that Brooko has not had the version with the filter system installed and can only give you views on the most bass heavy version.

All of our evaluators will get the full versions of the sabre and master for a full breakdown. At this moment these are like a shake down model to find floors and ways to improve.
 
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