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TRINITY - PHANTOM Series - New thread + WORLDS FIRST PUSH PULL HYBRID IEM!*

Feb 10, 2016 at 10:49 AM Post #166 of 24,683
meringo said:
Everyone has their own opinion, but the Dash is a tech demo more than anything. The current version has a hard time maintaining connections while outside, has to be REAL close to the source, and the sound is overwhelmingly meh. I hear new firmware might help with some of this stuff, but again... I feel v1 was a proof of concept more than anything. I can't believe it was delayed for so long, and still sucks.

I'm excited to see what Trinity brings to the table with the Phantom Air. I'm sure it will trump Dash in the practical sense. 
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Well ours is all about the sound with no gimmicks. Early testing it sounds easily as good as our Hyperion
 
Feb 10, 2016 at 10:58 AM Post #168 of 24,683
bobtrinity said:
How you finding the dash?
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I'll let you know later this week... Excited to try out all the features on it and get my ass motivated to start exercising again. Hopefully they have better Bluetooth performance than I've read from the Earin reviews (never bought into that one). Not sure what to expect from them in the sound department, I've never used a solely BA headphone before... I've also got a pledge in for the Alto earbuds, but that one seems a little dodgy... 

The form-factor (not the sound, obviously) of these buds is similar to your target with the Phantom Air, right? I haven't heard you talk too much about the Air yet, but I'm definitely looking forward to seeing your entry this arena :) 
 
 
Feb 10, 2016 at 11:06 AM Post #169 of 24,683
neotribal said:
I'll let you know later this week... Excited to try out all the features on it and get my ass motivated to start exercising again. Hopefully they have better Bluetooth performance than I've read from the Earin reviews (never bought into that one). Not sure what to expect from them in the sound department, I've never used a solely BA headphone before... I've also got a pledge in for the Alto earbuds, but that one seems a little dodgy... 


The form-factor (not the sound, obviously) of these buds is similar to your target with the Phantom Air, right? I haven't heard you talk too much about the Air yet, but I'm definitely looking forward to seeing your entry this arena :) 

 
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I thought they binned bluetooth and went with something else?

Form factor wont be the same, we want as much of it fitted in the ear rather than hanging out ;)

BA are a royal pain to get right. Only real turn key plug and play ba is sonion acupass 1723 and even then you need to get the right tube and damping right.

So far we have tested our bt at 5 meters away from the phone and signal is still solid but got patchy after that, so are reworking the design so it gets a better signal.

Let me know how you get on, will be intrigued to see what the competitions sound like.
 
Feb 10, 2016 at 12:25 PM Post #170 of 24,683
bobtrinity said:
I thought they binned bluetooth and went with something else?

Form factor wont be the same, we want as much of it fitted in the ear rather than hanging out
wink.gif


BA are a royal pain to get right. Only real turn key plug and play ba is sonion acupass 1723 and even then you need to get the right tube and damping right.

So far we have tested our bt at 5 meters away from the phone and signal is still solid but got patchy after that, so are reworking the design so it gets a better signal.

Let me know how you get on, will be intrigued to see what the competitions sound like.
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My understanding is that they tossed the BT connectivity between the two buds because all the mushy bits between them were causing connectivity problems :) Bragi switched to Near-Field Magnetic Induction at some point during development and have had success with that.
 
I was referring to the BT connection between the Dash and mobile device, supposedly the range might be a little lacking... This seems to be a recurring thing for these new BT devices with no external parts. Supposedly if you are indoors, or outside near physical structures where the BT signal can bounce from, the device connection is fine. If you are outdoors in an open area, the lack of externally exposed device surface area greatly limits the device connection distance. I read some early reports that having your mobile in an armband or shirt pocket gives the best results in this situation. Kinda disappointing to think that might be the current status quo.
 
Feb 10, 2016 at 8:58 PM Post #173 of 24,683
Feb 11, 2016 at 4:21 AM Post #175 of 24,683
I have two questions so far:

1. Are the price estimates posted supposed to be retail price or preorder/backer special price?

2. The Sabre is priced lower than the Atlas (which I own), so is it intended to be an upgrade in sound/functionality despite costing less?

Many thanks to anyone who can help!
 
Feb 11, 2016 at 4:39 AM Post #176 of 24,683
spaceman24 said:
2. The Sabre is priced lower than the Atlas (which I own), so is it intended to be an upgrade in sound/functionality despite costing less?
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Would also be very interested since I'm choosing between ordering Atlas or waiting for the new product line. Thanks!
 
Feb 11, 2016 at 5:41 AM Post #178 of 24,683
spaceman24 said:
I have two questions so far:

1. Are the price estimates posted supposed to be retail price or preorder/backer special price?

2. The Sabre is priced lower than the Atlas (which I own), so is it intended to be an upgrade in sound/functionality despite costing less?

Many thanks to anyone who can help!
Click to expand...


On the Sabre this will be retail and so will be a little lower for kickstarter, for the Master we have to finish doing our final engineering before I can say absolutely on the MSRP and Ks pricing.
 
The Sabre sound and presentation is different. We only price based on what it costs to make inc our margins etc and the Atlas is more expensive to make. I will let the testers report on what they find sound wise and they may offer comparisons to Atlas, however the testers only have Beta units currently.
 
Feb 11, 2016 at 6:35 AM Post #179 of 24,683

Trinity Sabre Prototype – First look at the Phantom Series


 
So if you’re on this thread, you already know who Bob is, and who Trinity Audio is, so I won’t go through a big preamble.  I also won’t go into depth on my preferences – just grab any of my recent reviews and you’ll get a good idea of what my bias are, and what generally makes me tick when it comes to preference.
 
So what is this then?  Simply my impressions after 5 days listening to Bob’s prototype Sabre IEMs.  I’m not going to go into huge detail like my normal reviews, and I’m not going to rank them – simply because they are a prototype – a work in progress.  But I thought you’d be interested is getting a closer look before the KS campaigns eventuate.
 
Packaging / Accessories
The Sabres arrived in Trinity’s normal book style box – this just had the Phantom logo on a paper sticker on the front.  Inside is the usual tip configuration (look for any Atlas review – you’ll get the idea).  There is a space for two filter containers, and pretty sure Bob is going to include 4-5 sets for those who like to tinker.  The case is the normal triangular Trinity zip-up “clamshell” case and includes a shirt clip, and the right angled adaptor.
 

 
 
Build
The Sabres are circular, 15mm in diameter, with a depth of 10mm, and a nozzle length of 5mm.  The nozzles are Bob’s usual tuning filters, and extend on an angle of about 45 degrees forward or upward (depending on the position of the cable). The nozzles with the prototype were very firmly wedged in place, so I couldn’t undo them – but this is only the prototype – the real model will have removable filters.  There is a pinhole rear port on the other shell.

 

 

 
The cable this time is 2 pin (yay), but ignore the photos – they’re just there to show you the connectors.  The Sabre shipped with a generic cable for testing and Bob will supply his real cables for the final product. So I won’t comment further on the cable except to say that the connectors work well, and personally I’m pretty happy to be stepping away from MMCX.
 
Fit / Isolation
I’ve already discussed a lot of this with Bob, Alex and Vince – so these are merely observances to show you the thought processes we go through when evaluating.  The shape in-ear is very comfortable, and for me sits inside the outer ear, so really easy to lie on my side while listening. The position of the cable – because of the circular shape, can be pretty much changed to suit your own preference – but just bear in mind that it can affect the angle of the nozzle.

 

 
For me, the nozzle is far too short, and I really struggled with fit (quite shallow).  I had to use large silicones or large Comply.  The silicones unfortunately gave me quite a bit of driver flex, but this could just be my own anatomy.  Bob has already said that he’s going to be including longer filters (which will definitely help my own personal situation), and he’s going to have a look at porting when he gets them back again. So both of my concerns regarding fit are already on the agenda to be fixed.
 
Once you get a good seal though, they are decently comfortable, and isolate pretty well with music playing.  I’d say above average for dynamic drivers.
 
Sonics
Usual disclaimer – I heard these with my ears, which are nowhere near perfect, and these are my biased impressions of the Sabre prototype.
 

 
General sound sig – bassy (especially sub bass) – big, bold, and those looking a warmer back end will like the Sabre I think.  Mid-range is a bit recessed, but vocal presence area is still pretty good.  Really clear in the vocals, and good command of detail.  Really smooth lower treble – and there is enough of this there, but it isn’t etched.
 
Soundstage – appears a little bigger than normal, but I think some of this can be attributed to the recession in the mid-range, and some to a little more reverb or decay being present.  Good sense of width and depth though.  Applause at the end of Dante’s Prayer was enveloping.
 
Sibilance – doesn’t appear a lot of the time for me (not noticeable), but on tracks where I’m actively listening (Let It Rain) there was still some heat.  Those sensitive to a 9 kHz peak might need to engage some EQ.
 
Bass – Impactful, visceral, but smooth, and not a lot of bleed (mainly because it is heightened lower bass).  Really enjoyed it for the first few hours, but most that know me (or have read my reviews) will know that I’m not big on an overly bassy signature.  After a while the Sabre got too much for me. I know with filter choices, I should be able to fix it.  A few EQ cuts and I enjoyed it a lot more.  I’ll need to use a less bassy filter
 
Female vocals – Just the way I like them, sweet, and effortless.  Bob never gets female vocals wrong – the Sabre is no exception.  Delicious.
 
Male vocals – yep really like this. Vedder was good – nice tonality, a bit too much bass guitar coming through but vocals were pretty much spot on.
 
Genres generally – pretty good with most genres, detail helped Jazz tracks, and rock generally was very good.  Not such a big fan with classical, and anything too bass heavy was fun – but not to my tastes.  Definitely lovers of a warm sound are going to really dig these – I did for a start.  For me they do just a little too much.
 
Comparison other IEMs
Nothing I have sounds really that close – these are quite a unique sound.  For a bassy V shaped IEM, they don’t do what most do – and that is over heat the treble too much.  They’re still a bit dark for me – but I think that is really the smoothness coming through.
 
I graphed these in comparison to IEMs with similar shape (see below) and although some have similar shapes, none even come that close to what I’m hearing with the Sabre. Many of them have a similar mid-range and lower treble signature, but it’s that lower bass that really sets them apart from everything else.
 
VS A83
Thought these would be quite close.  Both exhibit a lot of clarity, and both have a V shape – but where A83’s V is gentle, Sabres is much more pronounced.  Sabre has a lot more bass and A83 is more vocal forward and brighter.
 

 
Vs Titan 5
These were actually a bit more similar – especially in their presentation of vocals.  Titan 5 is brighter and a bit hotter especially with cymbals. Again the Sabre has a lot more low bass and is a lot smoother.
 

 
Vs Delta
Probably the two that are most similar, but again that extra low bass of the Sabre kicks in, and that is where the major difference is. I haven’t listened to the Delta for a while, and this was a chance to be reminded how truly excellent they really are.  Both are V shaped, both have very clear vocals and a smooth treble presence.  But the Delta for my tastes still has the better balance.
 

 

Summary

Well made – check.  Relatively comfortable – check.  Good fit – I’ll leave that until I get to try the longer filters.
 
Good sound sig – generally I’d say yes – but it’s not my sound sig.  I think a lot of people will like the Sabre, and I’ll be interested in Alex and Vince’s impressions when they get it. Bob said in the beginning that he didn’t think it would be my “cup of tea” – and he’s right.  Too much low end for me.  I’ll be interested in getting another listen of the final tuning though – especially once the filters are released.  There is definitely something about the mid-range and lower treble which is quite appealing.
 
Footnote – sorry for lack of specs.  I hope Bob will be able to step in and publish impedance / sensitivity etc.  And I can’t really explain the push pull tech (help please Bob?). From what I’ve read so far – it looks like it assists with lowering HF distortion.
 
Final note
Sorry for the brevity and lack of detail.  Have been running a series of 11-14 hour days with work, and I'm whacked (really, really tired).  Needed to get these away to Alex so he can give his impressions.  Please don't take my word as gospel, and remember that all of this is feedback to Bob so he can then make decisions based on all of what we note. I don't think he's set a foot wrong in any of the campaigns so far - so I trust him to get these right too.  I also have no idea of which filter was included on the prototypes - it could be the bassy one.  And lastly - the measurement system I use is good for comparisons but is still only raw data (no compensations applied).  So don't read too much into them :)
 
Feb 11, 2016 at 6:42 AM Post #180 of 24,683
@brooko Will there be any change in the 2 pin socket, to be made as recessed for the retail run, as these being protos?.....
 
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