[MLGrado]

Edit Wrong thread.

Read the review its detailed and good.

I went back and fixed many typos and cleaned up some things.

Topping E70V comparision to the E70 drops be midnight EST tonight

 

[MLGrado]

The E70V part of the comparo is up at Euphonic Review

https://www.euphonicreview.com/reviews-home/topping-e70v-velvet-dac-review

or see post 2 of this thread

 

[MLGrado]

The E70V flew the coop yesterday, and the the E70 followed today.

Last night, I had the chance to experiment a bit more with the E70.


I re-confirmed that it sounds best with DSD 512. All rates, formats oversampled to 1 bit 512fs.


During the reviews, I used the iFi ZEN CAN as the head-amp. I left its two analog domain enhancements turned off because it was strictly a review of the DAC's.

One of the ZEN enhancements is a 'presence' boost. WOW. A great many things I heard on my test tracks that could have perhaps been reproduced a bit better, well, they were reproduced a bit better with the iFi ZEN Can helping out.


So, in the end, your results are going to be GREATLY tied to your amplification. Well, duh, of course. Nothing new under the sun.

Just thought I would pass along.


ALSO, I will pass along what is arriving on FRIDAY to the lab. This was an unplanned item and unplanned review forthcoming. But when I saw a SMSL Dac at WELL UNDER $500 with a chipset with which I was unfamiliar, that according to the datasheet diagrams has native 1 bit DSD that skips all DSP/re-modulation, I had to bite.

So next review is the S.M.S.L. D300.

 

[Leonarfd]

The E70V flew the coop yesterday, and the the E70 followed today.

Last night, I had the chance to experiment a bit more with the E70.


I re-confirmed that it sounds best with DSD 512. All rates, formats oversampled to 1 bit 512fs.


During the reviews, I used the iFi ZEN CAN as the head-amp. I left its two analog domain enhancements turned off because it was strictly a review of the DAC's.

One of the ZEN enhancements is a 'presence' boost. WOW. A great many things I heard on my test tracks that could have perhaps been reproduced a bit better, well, they were reproduced a bit better with the iFi ZEN Can helping out.


So, in the end, your results are going to be GREATLY tied to your amplification. Well, duh, of course. Nothing new under the sun.

Just thought I would pass along.


ALSO, I will pass along what is arriving on FRIDAY to the lab. This was an unplanned item and unplanned review forthcoming. But when I saw a SMSL Dac at $499 with a chipset with which I was unfamiliar, that according to the datasheet diagrams has native 1 bit DSD that skips all DSP/re-modulation, I had to bite.

So next review is the S.M.S.L. D300.

DAC AMP synergy is always something that can make or break somethings, actually prefer the E70 together with A90 Discrete over the Burson conductor 3x performance.

Might be better detail and dynamics in the Burson, but it is not as musical and joyful.

Same with cma400i with A90 Discrete, did not sound as good as the topping combo.

E70 + A90 Discrete is a combo that is detailed and smooth sounding.

Anyways looking forward to you S.M.S.L. D300

 

[iFi audio]

One of the ZEN enhancements is a 'presence' boost. WOW. A great many things I heard on my test tracks that could have perhaps been reproduced a bit better, well, they were reproduced a bit better with the iFi ZEN Can helping out.

Thank you, your feedback is much appreciated

 

[robertospeed]

The E70V flew the coop yesterday, and the the E70 followed today.

Last night, I had the chance to experiment a bit more with the E70.


I re-confirmed that it sounds best with DSD 512. All rates, formats oversampled to 1 bit 512fs.


During the reviews, I used the iFi ZEN CAN as the head-amp. I left its two analog domain enhancements turned off because it was strictly a review of the DAC's.

One of the ZEN enhancements is a 'presence' boost. WOW. A great many things I heard on my test tracks that could have perhaps been reproduced a bit better, well, they were reproduced a bit better with the iFi ZEN Can helping out.


So, in the end, your results are going to be GREATLY tied to your amplification. Well, duh, of course. Nothing new under the sun.

Just thought I would pass along.


ALSO, I will pass along what is arriving on FRIDAY to the lab. This was an unplanned item and unplanned review forthcoming. But when I saw a SMSL Dac at $499 with a chipset with which I was unfamiliar, that according to the datasheet diagrams has native 1 bit DSD that skips all DSP/re-modulation, I had to bite.

So next review is the S.M.S.L. D300.

Hi, I didn't quite understand what you said, did you return the E70V? not good for DSD ? what should i do then? do I have to return it and buy SMSL D300? some say the D300 has problems when changing frequencies, ie you hear crackling noise when you listen to a 44100Hz track and then switch to a 96000Hz track and so on. Excuse me but I'm Italian and I use a translator and therefore I don't quite understand what I read and what I write, what should I do with the E70V? I have time to return it until day 22 of this month.

 

[Arniesb]

DAC AMP synergy is always something that can make or break somethings, actually prefer the E70 together with A90 Discrete over the Burson conductor 3x performance.

Might be better detail and dynamics in the Burson, but it is not as musical and joyful.

Same with cma400i with A90 Discrete, did not sound as good as the topping combo.

E70 + A90 Discrete is a combo that is detailed and smooth sounding.

Anyways looking forward to you S.M.S.L. D300

+1 Synergy is everything in this hobby.

 

[Hal X]

@MLGrado is the review coming?!
I have to say, I got the E70, and then got the E70V thinking, surely the AKM will sound better than the ESS (AKM is more natural, ESS is more clinical, etc.), but then I'm (somewhat reluctantly) coming to the conclusion that the E70 sounds clearer - and better - as if the E70V puts a muffled blanket over the overall sound (and yes, especially with DSD) - I'll have to do a full on A/B comparison (since currently I have both) but that's my current impression - so... looking forward to your review!

Hi, did you end up comparing them? If so, could you share your impressions on the differences between them if any?

I got the E70V and overall did not like it paired with my Singxer SA-1, granted I did not give it any time to observe any break-in effect, but it sounded kinda artificial to me, the way it popped specific detail in the highs/upper mids. Almost like the sound presentation was not uniform, and that part of the frequency response was constantly popping out and bothering me, not with fatigue, but with its tone/dryness compared to the rest of the spectrum.
Bass sounded good but was not enough of a difference compared to what I already have, at least in my chain.

In comparison, my Topping E50 ( with Allo Shanti power supply) while slightly more analytical/fatiguing sounds pretty uniform in its presentation, as in nothing odd or unexpected pops out.
Could it have changed radically after some hours of playback?
Anyways, I want to try the Topping E70 or SMSL D300 next, looking for non fatiguing sound with decent impact, we'll see how it turns out.

 

[Ultrainferno]

Today we also look at the E70 Velvet DAC on Headfonia. It's our latest Recommended Buy Award winner!

https://www.headfonia.com/topping-e70v-review/

 

[flyte3333]

The REVIEWS are FINALLY IN. You can read the review of E70 over at EuphonicReview.com. I have posted HERE in its entirety the review of the Topping E70V which includes comparisons with the older E70. To get up to speed to the fullest, though, I suggest you read the E70 review linked here below.

TOPPING E70 REVIEW (click here)


TOPPING E70V VELVET REVIEW
by Andrew Allen Ballew

DEJA VU?

To give a short recap of where we have been, I received both versions of Topping's E70 DAC. The first to arrive was the older E70 with ESS9028PRO chipset. Then a couple weeks later, the E70V arrived, sporting the latest AKM flagship chipset, the AK4191EQ Digital Processor and Modulator, and the new AK4499EXEQ, which converts the modulated signal received from the AK4191 into analog. However, from the outside, these DAC's are identical. Even in their feature sets, including LDAC Bluetooth 24/96. But, as I mentioned in 'part one' of this review, they do indeed sound quite different.

I will not reprint all that was said about Topping; about its mission/philosophy. You can find that in part one of this E70/E70V review/comparison, by clicking HERE for the link.

It is good to see AKM getting back on its feet. Even though the process is very slow, and they are beholden first to their larger customers (automotive), it is nice to see new things coming the audiophile way. I personally find this latest flagship DAC fascinating. Unfortunately, the information we have about it is slight. There has yet to be any release to the public of a comprehensive Data Sheet. What I can tell you about it, is it is NOT a switched capacitor DAC, as seemingly all have been out of AKM recently. This is a switched resistor DAC. (The previous AK4499 is the only other AKM I am aware of as I write that is not switched capacitor. Feel free to correct me if I have overlooked something. This new AK4499 that requires the AK4191 to operate seems to be similar or the same as the post-modulator section of the old AK4499).

The specifications of this new double chipset are ambitious. Based on my measurements, most of which even better the previous E70, which was incredible on the test bench, speak to the success of the AKM engineers in this new endeavor.

Let's Get Right Down to it...

I see no need to waste any time, so let us dive right in. For better context, click here and read the E70 review. All listening was done with PCM filter 6.

I described the E70 as 'soft and smooth'. The E70V? It gives you what is on the recording. There does not seem to be very much 'editorialization' by the E70V. It is balanced, detailed, reveals fine textures, and if it's a bad recording, you will know it. However, great recordings will be truly magnificent, and the sound is among the best I have heard from DACs under $500. I listened to one recording made with the Pacific Microsonics Model Two ADC in the E70 (ESS) review. Considering that the E70V (AKM) is such a window on the sound, I evaluated it with a couple more recordings made with a Pacific Microsonics DAC.

The Best Recordings in the World

Keith Johnson is the mastermind behind Pacific Microsonics. He is also the inventor of HDCD, a leap forward in CD quality in the mid-1990's before the likes of DVD-Audio and SACD came to town. HDCD encodes the equivalent of 20 bits worth of data in a 16-bit digital audio signal by using custom dithering and audio filters. But it isn't HDCD that became his 'claim to fame'. It was the ADC itself, which is still coveted in recording studios long after being discontinued. It is a 100 percent PCM ADC. No Delta Sigma. It will capture analog up to 24 bit/192khz. Johnson went on to use this ADC at his 'Reference Recordings', which was dedicated to making the best digital audio recordings ever heard. I believe he succeeded, as that same tech is still used 'til this day at Reference Recordings, and the fidelity is remarkable. (I feel obligated to note that Reference Recordings seems to have moved on to high speed DSD these days. I have several of their recordings of the Pittsburgh Symphony in DSD 256.)

First up is an 'oldie' but goodie. Reference Recording's amazing capture of Eugene Istomin playing Mozart's Piano Concerto No.21 in C minor accompanied by the Seattle Symphony Orchestra under the baton of Gerald Schwarz. This recording made 'The Absolute Sound' Super Disc List, and was the 'Stereophile' recording of the month in May, 1996.

The version I auditioned was at 24/88.2khz. The first thing noticed is the EXTREME detail. Nothing artificial; this is actual recording space detail captured to the 'nth' degree and reproduced faithfully by the Topping E70V. Dynamics are impressive, a real improvement on one of the only real complaints about the earlier E70. Piano is reproduced here to near perfection. The tiniest dynamic shadings of tension and resolution are captured and reproduced with an exquisite touch.

Sticking with Reference Recordings, the next works I auditioned on the E70V came from a much more recent release recorded on the Pacific Microsonics Model Two at 24/176.4. In this case, I happened to have the master recording at 176.4khz. The release is called 'Danza del Soul' by Chris Brubeck performed by the Concord Chamber Music Society. Yes, he is THAT Brubeck, son of the late and great Jazz composer and musician.

'Danza del Soul' is what I would call a bit of an esoteric work. Thoroughly modern. The work begins with solo clarinet that is reproduced about as nicely as one could ask. The reedy, yet bell-like rounded tone is captured and reproduced here by the E70V with both commendable detail AND tone. Overtones are easily picked out by a keen ear. Later in the recording when the bass comes in, it is quite an experience. Bass is strong, goes deep, and contains fine texture and nuance as well. Eventually we will get a musical drama going on with the clarinet, cello and bass, yet here comes the percussion, finding its own musical space as the imaging stays rock solid between all instruments. This is truly audiophile worthy reproduction. Might we have a new standard set for under $500? I do not know, as there are so many products out there to be reviewed, but, I would go to battle with this DAC any day, of this I am sure.

Next up I took a turn with the Doric String Quartet on the Chandos label, performing the Korngold String Quartet no. 1 in A major. From the first note what stands out is the excellent transient response. There is speed and power here, but not at the expense of nuance and beauty, which will be heard just a few bars later. The string tone is rounded and pure, with the sweetest of vibrato and micro-dynamics, that when reproduced well may be just the type of small detail that separates a good DAC from a great DAC. If I had any qualms or reservations, it would be in the soundstage. While things were very nicely spready out from left to right, from front to back the DAC left things a little flat. But overall, another win for Topping.

I waited until last to mention my only real disappointment with this DAC. For a great deal of you, this will not mean much, as DSD is still a niche format, even amongst the audio zealots it seems. At the very least, it is a polarizing format. All you need to do to learn that, is just take an afternoon and peruse a few audio forums. As for me, I find great recordings in both PCM and DSD formats, and I even really like the other controversial format, MQA. (As with the E70, MQA is regrettably omitted here, too.) But, there indeed is SOMETHING about DSD, when heard at its best, that is just compatible with my ear.

The E70V certainly will play DSD. All the way up to 512fs. But the manual is incorrect when it says there is a choice of two filter settings, and it also lists the wrong cutoff frequency for the one filter that is locked in. The actual cutoff frequency for DSD64 is a very, very low 19khz. Below this review in the graphs section you will be able to see the rolloff of this filter, and it reaches its stopband at 30khz. Which is actually not that much different than a 'slow' PCM filter. Why is that a big deal? The area where DSD may have an advantage over PCM, is in time domain performance. Yes, it must be filtered anyway and lose some of that advantage, but there is a balance to be found between filtering and how much ultrasonic noise one is willing to deal with in designing a DAC. I have listened to lots of DSD on the E70V, including DSD64, and of course it doesn't sound 'bad'. It sounds fine. But it isn't bringing out the maximum performance of which the AKM chip is capable.

One consequence of a DSD FIR filter, is the filter cutoff frequency doubles with DSD speed, assuming the coefficients do not change. I have confirmed that this is the case through DSD256, but DSD512 is beyond my current ability to measure the cutoff frequency. If we assume the usual holds true, then the DSD512 frequency cutoff would be around 150khz.

Therefore it would be my personal choice to oversample any DSD files to DSD512 with the E70V. And indeed, I found a notable increase in fidelity with the DSD64 files I sampled when they were oversampled to 512fs.

CONCLUSION

This one is easy. The Topping E70V Velvet Edition is one of the best DACs under $500 I have heard. Compared directly to the RME ADI-2 PRO FS R Black Edition DAC that uses the AKM AK4493 DAC, the Topping comes pretty close! No, it doesn't match or beat the RME, but considering the price, it makes the Topping a real winner in its own right.

The question may be for some of you, which version should I get? The E70 for less money, or pay the premium for the E70V? If budget is tight, then I can wholeheartedly recommend the original E70. If you prefer a smooth, laid back sound, that may hide any warts in poorer recordings, I recommend the E70. The DSD performance of the E70 is also excellent, actually I consider DSD playback to be its strength.

But if you can stretch your wallet, my recommendation is get the E70V. In spite of the issue with DSD I highlighted, overall I consider it the better sounding DAC. It is much more true to the source, and will give you its best when you give it a great recording. It may not be as nice to you with poorer recordings, though. It is dynamic, paints a good soundstage, and also is great with micro dynamics and textures. If you listen to DSD, you may find better performance oversampling to a higher rate, or you may find it sounds just fine as it is. The difference is not enough to be a deal breaker when one considers how overall fine the sound is. Highly recommended at this price point. Worth a listen even if you are looking at a higher price point!


MEASUREMENTS

The Topping E70V put simply, measures better than any DAC I have yet had the privilege to evaluate. The SNR, though falling just a bit short of the E70, is still an amazing -127.1db (A). THD exceeds the E70 at -131db, and likewise SINAD is an impressive 121.3db, outpacing the E70 once again. The ESS chipset in the E70 is famed for its jitter rejection. Don't tell that to the new AKM chipset in the E70V, as it equals or even slightly beats the E70 in jitter rejection! Please see the graphs below for more data. Stereo Separation never rises any higher than -123db, 3db better than the E70.

OUR RATING: (0-10 scale. 8 or higher numbers represent best of industry. For the final score calculation, each category is given a (undisclosed) weighting and is tallied for final score. Although perfect 'fairness' is unlikely, our system tries to be as unbiased as possible

sound quality: 8.3
build quality: 9.3
ease of use: 8.8
measurements: 10.0
value: 9

TOTAL RATING: 89.3/ 100

---

Here are the measurements of the Topping E70V​

UPDATE 1/30/2023

Here are the digital filter profiles of the Topping E70 AKM version.

Unfortunately, there is NO choice for the DSD filter on the AKM version. The DSD path is not the 'direct' path; it is the 'processor' path that includes FIR filter, volume control and then re-moduation. The only available cutoff is at 19khz!!!! (At 64fs). This is extremely low for DSD. Honestly, this kind of filtration is very much like one would expect with a PCM decimating filter. There is no decimation here, however. Sample rate stays the same and as expected, the FC doubles with speed. (DSD 128 has 38khz fc, DSD 256 has 76khz fc. I could not verify if DSD 512 follows pattern. I will not assume it continues the pattern, because in some other recent AK chips, higher speed DSD saw a coefficient change in addition to bitstream speed, meaning it is not predictable. A measurement is required)

The DSD frequency cutoffs mentioned in the manual are incorrect; they are correct for the 'old' AKM4499 chip, however, this is not the AK4499. The VELVET E70 uses the very latest and highest end AKM DAC, which is split into two sections, each with their own clock. The digital processing chip is called the AK4191, and the switched resistor DAC that shares the 4499 designation (as opposed to switched capacitor in previous AK chips like the 4493), is where all analog processing is done. This is a VERY expensive chip, and I assume is where the extra cost comes from as compared to the E70 ESS version.


Here are the filter profiles as measured with ARTA software via the RME ADI-2 ADC. (For the most sensitive measurements, such as SINAD, I use the E1DA COSMOS ADC and APU.)

Filter 5, however, is no filter at all. The manual calls it 'super slow' but it is NOS. (non-oversampling)

ALSO, there are some very low level sidebands alongside each test tone in every filter mode. Other than the NOS filter, the presence of sidebands is purely academic, but interesting nonetheless.

SHARP ROLL-OFF (linear phase)



SLOW ROLL-OFF (linear phase)


SHARP ROLL-OFF(minimum phase)


SLOW ROLL-OFF(minimum phase)


NON-OVERSAMPLING


LOW DISPERTION (HYBRID)

DSD FILTER RESPONSE 64fs



DSD FILTER RESPONSE 128fs



DSD FILTER RESPONSE 256fs


Note that the roll-off for DSD256 begins around 80khz, but we run into the 192khz sample rate nyquist limit of the ARTA software.


THAT'S ALL UPDATES FOR TODAY; MANY MORE TO COME.

Brilliant measurements.

Can you perform some of your main measurements with your PCM44.1kHz test signals upsampled to DSD256 and DSD512 ?

DAC running in DSD Direct mode.

1kHz tone measurement, jitter, IMD, and maybe multitone

I'm curious if measurements improve if you bypass it's internal DSP.

 

[flyte3333]

The DSD path is not the 'direct' path; it is the 'processor' path that includes FIR filter, volume control and then re-moduation.

This sucks. Did you email Topping about a firmware update to allow DSD Direct mode ?

Surely it could be possible

@shenzhenaudio please ask Topping engineers

 

[robertospeed]

This sucks. Did you email Topping about a firmware update to allow DSD Direct mode ?

Surely it could be possible

@shenzhenaudio please ask Topping engineers

I wrote many times to Topping and they told me that they won't do any firmware for the E70 Velvet.
There is only one filter for DSD mode.

 

[MLGrado]

Brilliant measurements.

Can you perform some of your main measurements with your PCM44.1kHz test signals upsampled to DSD256 and DSD512 ?

DAC running in DSD Direct mode.

1kHz tone measurement, jitter, IMD, and maybe multitone

I'm curious if measurements improve if you bypass it's internal DSP.

not with this Dac, but yes, I can perform some tests in the future with external files converted to DSD. The Cosmos ADC is my interface of choice now adays, and I am falling in Love with Multitone, which, I just noticed does allow for external test signals.. (ahem DSD LOL)

 

[flyte3333]

not with this Dac, but yes, I can perform some tests in the future with external files converted to DSD. The Cosmos ADC is my interface of choice now adays, and I am falling in Love with Multitone, which, I just noticed does allow for external test signals.. (ahem DSD LOL)

With the Pro iDSD in your signature would be great if possible !

DSD256 input vs DSD512

Not really using its built-in upsampler

 

[ekjellgren]

Anyone tried pairing the E70V to a Burson Soloist amp?