[szore]

Hey guys, can someone tell me exactly what EST drivers add to treble? I've heard they just modify timbre...do they actually produce sound that you can hear? I have the ISN EST50 and compared to say, my Szalayi, (which uses a single BA for treble), they seem to have more air and clarity...but again, are the EST tweeters actually tweeting audible audio? Thanks in advance....

 

[DanielListening]

Hey guys, can someone tell me exactly what EST drivers add to treble? I've heard they just modify timbre...do they actually produce sound that you can hear? I have the ISN EST50 and compared to say, my Szalayi, (which uses a single BA for treble), they seem to have more air and clarity...but again, are the EST tweeters actually tweeting audible audio? Thanks in advance....

Big thing is speed IMO. This speed also adds clarity. YMMV

 

[flu_fighter]

My LOAK-T (CL) landed in the UK this morning, and should have been with me now except there was a delay with the onward journey to Dublin - Tuesday now unfortunately as a public holiday here on Monday. Can’t wait to try them.

Welcome to the 634ears rabbit hole. Somehow I ended up with 8 634 ears iems in a space of less than 2 years.

Saw your Efterklang post, haven't followed them since Pyramida.

The first 2 releases are still my favourites, especially this track:

 

[Neweymatt]

Most of them are more than good enough and the differences even between ultra high end stuff and really cheap stuff is way smaller than reading anything around here would lead some to believe.

Absolutely, the differences can be small between mid-tier and top-tier, and between the top-tier sets themselves.

However I've come to learn from my own journey that those little things can be all the difference between an IEM or headphone that may sound fantastic vs. one that completely sweeps me away. This is why I've recently sold IER-Z1R, because while it's definitely the former, it never did the latter for me; I could appreciate it's technical brilliance, but during 2 years of ownership I never had that desperate craving to listen to it like I do with A12t or Andro2020 for example. DD vs BA vs BCD vs EST vs Planar or whatever doesn't seem to matter much to me I suppose, it's more the resulting listening experience that I care about.

Hello all, I live in the US state of Michigan. Anyone know of audio shops that sell / demo IEMs in the US? Preferably near Michigan lol. But any that are interesting would be cool to learn about too. What are your favorites? So that if I'm travelling I can try and hit them up. Relatively new here but loving the community of Head-fi so far.

Definitely try to find a way to hear as much as you can, either through tours, auditions, loaners etc, and don't be afraid of using the classifieds to buy/sell stuff along the way. If I was in the US, I'd definitely make my way to Portland to check out CFA, 64 Audio & Fir all in one trip. Might even visit my parents at the same time.

 

[mashuto]

Absolutely, the differences can be small between mid-tier and top-tier, and between the top-tier sets themselves.

However I've come to learn from my own journey that those little things can be all the difference between an IEM or headphone that may sound fantastic vs. one that completely sweeps me away. This is why I've recently sold IER-Z1R, because while it's definitely the former, it never did the latter for me; I could appreciate it's technical brilliance, but during 2 years of ownership I never had that desperate craving to listen to it like I do with A12t or Andro2020 for example. DD vs BA vs BCD vs EST vs Planar or whatever doesn't seem to matter much to me I suppose, it's more the resulting listening experience that I care about.

Oh yea, dont get me wrong, I am not trying to say there is no value to be had in higher end stuff. And I know that those small differences can definitely change how something is perceived and ultimately whether it "speaks" to someone. But my experience has told me so far that most of what is being discussed in relation to ultra high end stuff often amounts to chasing that last tiny bit of difference that I think at least for myself, and likely a lot of others, really just isnt necessary. And I dont think it always requires spending huge sums in order to find something that really clicks. That to me always seems much more down to tuning and preference. And I think a good portion of the value in higher end stuff is paying for the tuning expertise of whoever makes it.

 

[RTodd]

Oh yea, dont get me wrong, I am not trying to say there is no value to be had in higher end stuff. And I know that those small differences can definitely change how something is perceived and ultimately whether it "speaks" to someone. But my experience has told me so far that most of what is being discussed in relation to ultra high end stuff often amounts to chasing that last tiny bit of difference that I think at least for myself, and likely a lot of others, really just isnt necessary. And I dont think it always requires spending huge sums in order to find something that really clicks. That to me always seems much more down to tuning and preference. And I think a good portion of the value in higher end stuff is paying for the tuning expertise of whoever makes it.

For me there are those rather small differences found in iterations like in the case of the Mason variations, and many others.

At the same time there are more dramatic differences between something like the Supermoon Traillii and XE6, something I found worth chasing. The fact that all three of these sets bring something unique to the listening in comparison to each other was what drove my purchase decisions.

What is also interesting is that I really had fun with all three of them, maybe my hearing and tastes are still refining, now Trifecta is doing similar for my time listening with them.

At the same time there are plenty of sets I heard and found to not bring that same appeal. No doubt this all is very personal. I do tend to listen to a broad range of music though I am sure that others hearing what music I actually connect with would find it to have some fundamental similarities regardless of genre.

It has taken me a few years to get where I am at and I am not going to even think about how much this journey has cost all added up since that would diminish the joy that has been afforded me, that fun was some of the best moments during the past few years. Also joyful for having gotten to know this group of like minded people. I would not have purchased what I did and tried the others without the input of this group.

 

[warrenpchi]

When the smallest thing becomes all there is, all that remains to be chased after, it becomes everything.

 

[drftr]

I simply cant go back to any non DD bass IEMs.

Will you part with your A12 and A18 because of this?

drftr

 

[kevin638880]

Need this right now.

 

[SBranson]

Penon Impact received today from @Rockwell75 as part of the tour.





First impression was the weight. They seemed a fair bit heavier than my Bravado 2. The cable is very supple and seems of very good quality.
These are very comfortable in my ears. Despite the large looking nozzles, with Spiral Dot ++ these have less pressure on my ear canals than the Bravado 2.

Listening was an interesting journey from an initial uncertainty to being very impressed.
But first a quick note of reference: I'm 53, a carpenter/joiner who often works in noisy environments and have done for some time. I have some age and occupation related hearing deficits in the high freq. but have what I consider to be a very good ear having played instruments my whole life. Having been in the audio hobby for about 25 years through 2 channel and headphones/iems I have heard/owned more gear than I can possibly remember, and been down most rabbit holes..


So... my listening started with NIN "Still" album as that has been in heavy rotation for a few months. I have no idea how that album slipped past my attention but it did until about 5-6 months ago and I have listened to it so much since then.. Anyway, suffice to say I know it pretty well.
@DanielListening had texted me earlier in the day about my impressions but I didn't have the Impact until after work so when I first heard it I texted him...
I was using the Lotoo PAW6000 on high gain. My first impressions we not positive. I described it as "weird... Very detailed but it's kind of slow. Like the transient attack is blunted, even though there's tons of detail everything feels thick." I compared to the Bravado 2 and sure enough, the B2 seemed quicker and more nimble but thinner overall in the timbre with less overt detail but "it's something about the leading edge of notes." Vocals sounded very real after the fact and pianos were nice in the decay but not the attack.

That got me looking at the layout. I have pretty much avoided all info on the Impact, so on the site it lists the ESTs as for the super high freq, with BAs for the highs.. Compare that to the Bravado 2 which uses an EST for the super highs and one for the highs, with the BA for the mids..
That made sense. I remember very well the Vision Ears tour with the Elysium and the VE8. As soon as I heard the EST treble of the Elysium, the VE8 lasted less than 5 minutes in my ears. ESTs ruined BA treble for me. Now I suspect that might have to do with my age/etc as mentioned above but for me BS treble has a kind of echo'ey quality, a slowness that ESTs completely cure and just sound "right"..

The Lotoo is pretty new to me and people referencing the Impact as Traillii on a relative pauper's salary, I tried the Burson amp as even though I didn't have it with the Trailli, it's proven to be a very good sounding amp. Way too much hiss to use balanced so I switched to SE.
Things started to get interesting. The staging was much less "in my face". Imaging and size of the stage improved. Even the timbre and tonality improved.
I went to a couple of my favourite lute recordings by Rolf Lislevand, "La Mascarade" and "La Belle Homicide". Now these really started to sound good. I still wouldn't say I was getting the magic "je ne sais quoi" of the Traillii but there was the some beautiful timbre and the detail had me listening deep into the playing.

So, I thought maybe it was the gain setting on the Lotoo that was throwing things off for me. So I went back to the Lotoo on low gain and things sounded much much better.
I tried Eva Cassidy "Fields of Gold" from Live at Blue Note and it was up there with the best I've heard it. Oddly, the detail was so good that I've never heard that damn out of tune guitar playing the solo sound so out of tune before. It was impressive but also kind of made me wince. Damn that guitar...

Then I went to Olafur Arnalds "Árbakkinn" from Island Songs. I haven't listened to this song in a long time as it was a "test" song back when I was buying and selling way too often but this sounded so good that I forgot about that "function" and just listened again to how beautiful a song it is.. I had chills..


So in my last text to @DanielListening I joked (sort of) how I could really see owning these and hatched a quick plan to sell the Diana's, the Burson, the Lotoo to get a better DAP and still keeping the Bravado 2 because of the bass.

So after a relatively brief session my impressions were that I find them very balanced. The bass is deep and textured. They don't have the visceral quality to the bass of the Bravado 2 but frankly EE, to my ears, has the best bass. The mids are very detailed and maybe slightly warm but in good way. The treble was troublesome at first but that is a touchy area for me in particular and maybe a little "brain burn" helped. I noticed the same thing when I first tried the Socrates cable on the Bravado2, that I though the treble got a bit thick and smeared but after 20 minutes I could hear the inner detail within a warmer more robust sound.
This all took about 45 minutes then I had to sort out supper so I'm excited to see how more listening goes.

Overall an excellent set and joking aside, I may actually upend my system to get these. I really do like them..

 

[emdeevee]

Penon Impact received today from @Rockwell75 as part of the tour.





First impression was the weight. They seemed a fair bit heavier than my Bravado 2. The cable is very supple and seems of very good quality.
These are very comfortable in my ears. Despite the large looking nozzles, with Spiral Dot ++ these have less pressure on my ear canals than the Bravado 2.

Listening was an interesting journey from an initial uncertainty to being very impressed.
But first a quick note of reference: I'm 53, a carpenter/joiner who often works in noisy environments and have done for some time. I have some age and occupation related hearing deficits in the high freq. but have what I consider to be a very good ear having played instruments my whole life. Having been in the audio hobby for about 25 years through 2 channel and headphones/iems I have heard/owned more gear than I can possibly remember, and been down most rabbit holes..


So... my listening started with NIN "Still" album as that has been in heavy rotation for a few months. I have no idea how that album slipped past my attention but it did until about 5-6 months ago and I have listened to it so much since then.. Anyway, suffice to say I know it pretty well.
@DanielListening had texted me earlier in the day about my impressions but I didn't have the Impact until after work so when I first heard it I texted him...
I was using the Lotoo PAW6000 on high gain. My first impressions we not positive. I described it as "weird... Very detailed but it's kind of slow. Like the transient attack is blunted, even though there's tons of detail everything feels thick." I compared to the Bravado 2 and sure enough, the B2 seemed quicker and more nimble but thinner overall in the timbre with less overt detail but "it's something about the leading edge of notes." Vocals sounded very real after the fact and pianos were nice in the decay but not the attack.

That got me looking at the layout. I have pretty much avoided all info on the Impact, so on the site it lists the ESTs as for the super high freq, with BAs for the highs.. Compare that to the Bravado 2 which uses an EST for the super highs and one for the highs, with the BA for the mids..
That made sense. I remember very well the Vision Ears tour with the Elysium and the VE8. As soon as I heard the EST treble of the Elysium, the VE8 lasted less than 5 minutes in my ears. ESTs ruined BA treble for me. Now I suspect that might have to do with my age/etc as mentioned above but for me BS treble has a kind of echo'ey quality, a slowness that ESTs completely cure and just sound "right"..

The Lotoo is pretty new to me and people referencing the Impact as Traillii on a relative pauper's salary, I tried the Burson amp as even though I didn't have it with the Trailli, it's proven to be a very good sounding amp. Way too much hiss to use balanced so I switched to SE.
Things started to get interesting. The staging was much less "in my face". Imaging and size of the stage improved. Even the timbre and tonality improved.
I went to a couple of my favourite lute recordings by Rolf Lislevand, "La Mascarade" and "La Belle Homicide". Now these really started to sound good. I still wouldn't say I was getting the magic "je ne sais quoi" of the Traillii but there was the some beautiful timbre and the detail had me listening deep into the playing.

So, I thought maybe it was the gain setting on the Lotoo that was throwing things off for me. So I went back to the Lotoo on low gain and things sounded much much better.
I tried Eva Cassidy "Fields of Gold" from Live at Blue Note and it was up there with the best I've heard it. Oddly, the detail was so good that I've never heard that damn out of tune guitar playing the solo sound so out of tune before. It was impressive but also kind of made me wince. Damn that guitar...

Then I went to Olafur Arnalds "Árbakkinn" from Island Songs. I haven't listened to this song in a long time as it was a "test" song back when I was buying and selling way too often but this sounded so good that I forgot about that "function" and just listened again to how beautiful a song it is.. I had chills..


So in my last text to @DanielListening I joked (sort of) how I could really see owning these and hatched a quick plan to sell the Diana's, the Burson, the Lotoo to get a better DAP and still keeping the Bravado 2 because of the bass.

So after a relatively brief session my impressions were that I find them very balanced. The bass is deep and textured. They don't have the visceral quality to the bass of the Bravado 2 but frankly EE, to my ears, has the best bass. The mids are very detailed and maybe slightly warm but in good way. The treble was troublesome at first but that is a touchy area for me in particular and maybe a little "brain burn" helped. I noticed the same thing when I first tried the Socrates cable on the Bravado2, that I though the treble got a bit thick and smeared but after 20 minutes I could hear the inner detail within a warmer more robust sound.
This all took about 45 minutes then I had to sort out supper so I'm excited to see how more listening goes.

Overall an excellent set and joking aside, I may actually upend my system to get these. I really do like them..

But you have Ripples!? How is that comp!?

 

[SBranson]

But you have Ripples!? How is that comp!?

I'll compare those tomorrow. Buds are a different presentation than iems so, in my opinion, it requires a longer comparison time.

 

[drftr]

I'll compare those tomorrow. Buds are a different presentation than iems so, in my opinion, it requires a longer comparison time.

At the risk of overasking, if possible please throw in some Serratus impressions while you're at it.

drftr

 

[Natesdailies]

I know it's next to impossible to follow up on this, but which IEM(s) do they follow closest tonality-wise for you? I'm trying to get an idea whether this would be something I'm interested in but given my extremely wide musical taste and the fact that I'd want a one-does-it-all that seems too much asked.

drftr

I've thought about this question for a while. The short answer is that there isn't an IEM that Ive heard that sounds like the Serratus. Because fundamentally, one of its charms is its speaker like presentation. What it reminds me of is a lower resolving HD800s with better timbre and tonality. Paired with the RS8, it gives me that fuzzy radio analog feeling spun off vinyl.

When I listen to this set, the left side of my brain turns off. I don't need all the details. The music becomes the focus.

 

[drftr]

I've thought about this question for a while. The short answer is that there isn't an IEM that Ive heard that sounds like the Serratus. Because fundamentally, one of its charms is its speaker like presentation. What it reminds me of is a lower resolving HD800s with better timbre and tonality. Paired with the RS8, it gives me that fuzzy radio analog feeling spun off vinyl.



When I listen to this set, the left side of my brain turns off. I don't need all the details. The music becomes the focus.

Not sure why the line Life without suffering isn't worth living suddenly popped up... Tnx N/Mate - it'll keep my mind spinning for a while.

drftr