The Watercooler -- Impressions, philosophical discussion and general banter. Index on first page. All welcome.
Dec 17, 2021 at 11:09 PM Post #7,231 of 87,687
It could happen-- but I'd have to walk away from Head Fi and other audio related forums. The truth is there is no destination-- there's never going to be a "best ever IEM" any more than there could be "tastiest pizza ever" or "most beautiful song ever". In this hobby the journey is both the goal and the reward of pursuing it. I was happy with an SE215 & Fiio Xiii for years and I've said many times that I could have stopped after the OG Solaris & Fiio M9 3 years ago...but it's the community and love & satisfaction of trying new things that's kept me going. The only way to break the cycle would be to stop getting exposed to new things.
 
Dec 17, 2021 at 11:52 PM Post #7,232 of 87,687
Curious about this too. For the N8ii, of course, hehe.
But really at this rate, no one will own the TImeless by the time that goes up for sale.

edit: Also, I should really learn to plan responses out so I can compress them into one, jeez, sorry folks.
I tried it on the N3Pro and I think I liked it but I preferred the RU6 more.

I have a Oriolus BA300S on the way and was thinking of linking it together with the RU6. Excited to hear how that turns out. :)
 
Dec 18, 2021 at 12:47 AM Post #7,233 of 87,687
Thanks @Rockwell75 for letting me try his Zen Pro and Moondrop Kato.

Here is my brief first impressions of the Zen Pro:

54198C01-7BF5-433B-AB5F-720564CDDB45.jpeg


Similar to the OG Zen, Zen Pro has very satisfying bass depth, control and texture. Bass transient (attack and decay) behavior is among the best I’ve heard out of in-ears, beating out the IER-Z1R in technical prowess by a hair but loosing out in a sheer extension by few clicks. The bass of the Zen Pro is also characterized by its versatility as it can be quite nimble and pacey on fast bpmed(?) techno and house tracks but also manages wonderfully realistic and organic on classical or jazz when necessary. The mid-bass of the Zen Pro is weighted ideally for my taste and it works amazingly well with most of my music library. The midrange is most definitely the meat of the Zen Pro’s sound signature. Tuning is slightly upper mid-forward but, unlike the OG Zen, the Pro doesn’t really ‘shout’ its midrange on to the listener. It has an uncanny ability to ‘centre’ the vocalist in its headstage, seemingly escaping stereo separation almost completely, but at the same time avoids the somewhat excessively intimate and forwardness of the OG Zen.

E83ED457-04EF-467E-A05F-2839791CC301.jpeg


The mids are smooth yet there are gobs of details and micro dynamics to sound not boring and counter the full bodied nature of the bass to lower mids transition. Clarity is excellent but the midrange isn’t as crisp as, for instance, multi BA driven Traillii or GS Audio SE11, but I appreciate how the detail is not presented as aggressively. And Yes, most of the thinner-sounding high-end armatures (Odin and MEST for example) still have the upper hand when it comes to clarity, imaging and microdetail, but it is amazing how close the (comparatively) gargantua dynamic driver of the Zen Pro comes close to those levels of performance.

The treble transition is seamlessly smooth, yielding a clear high end with no harshness or sibilance. The treble is definitely better extended than OG Zen and seems a bit more present in the lower treble area. The top end does lack the effortlessness of the Traillii or the sparkle of the Elysium. Expectedly, it is not as crisp and resolving as with many of the EST-based IEMs, resulting in less aggressive detailing but also a generally pleasant an non-fatiguing sound. Again, the treble of the Zen Pro is more impressive when taken out of context and not juxtaposed to the bass and midrange, which do tend to crowd it out somewhat.

Lastly, the presentation of the Zen Pro is more than noteworthy in itself. The deep soundstage is one of the most apparent and striking aspects of the sound. Sound stage height and width is similarly spacious, giving the Zen Pro an open feel on par with many closed back headphones.

Compared to the FD7, Zen Pro sounds a bit more dynamic and vivid overall. By contrast, FD7 sounds more relaxed, diffused, romantic and slightly warmer. FD7 has some of the most realistic reproduction of stringed instruments I’ve heard out of an in-ear outside of the JVC FX series, adding to their excellent timbre the right amount of crispness, detail, and texture for the most minute nuances of string motion to be distinguished. By comparison, Zen Pro’s timbre for stringed instruments has a slight metallic tinge and edginess. Piano, woodwinds and percussion however sounds very tactile and real on Zen Pro which surprised me greatly.

I loved the OG Zen but ended up selling because it lacked the last 5-10% of intangibles and tuning prowess. Now with the Zen Pro, Dunu seemed to found that last bit of ingredients and perfected it.

I am considering to acquire one for myself.
 
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Dec 18, 2021 at 12:51 AM Post #7,234 of 87,687
Thanks @Rockwell75 for letting me try his Zen Pro and Moondrop Kato.

Here is my brief first impressions of the Zen Pro:

54198C01-7BF5-433B-AB5F-720564CDDB45.jpeg

Similar to the OG Zen, Zen Pro has very satisfying bass depth, control and texture. Bass transient (attack and decay) behavior is among the best I’ve heard out of in-ears, beating out the IER-Z1R in technical prowess by a hair but loosing out in a sheer extension by few clicks. The bass of the Zen Pro is also characterized by its versatility as it can be quite nimble and pacey on fast bpmed(?) techno and house tracks but also manages wonderfully realistic and organic on classical or jazz when necessary. The mid-bass of the Zen Pro is weighted ideally for my taste and it works amazingly well with most of my music library. The midrange is most definitely the meat of the Zen Pro’s sound signature. Tuning is slightly upper mid-forward but, unlike the OG Zen, the Pro doesn’t really ‘shout’ its midrange on to the listener. It has an uncanny ability to ‘centre’ the vocalist in its headstage, seemingly escaping stereo separation almost completely, but at the same time avoids the somewhat excessively intimate and forwardness of the OG Zen.

E83ED457-04EF-467E-A05F-2839791CC301.jpeg

The mids are smooth yet there are gobs of details and micro dynamics to sound not boring and counter the full bodied nature of the bass to lower mids transition. Clarity is excellent but the midrange isn’t as crisp as, for instance, multi BA driven Traillii or GS Audio SE11, but I appreciate how the detail is not presented as aggressively. And Yes, most of the thinner-sounding high-end armatures (Odin and MEST for example) still have the upper hand when it comes to clarity, imaging and microdetail, but it is amazing how close the (comparatively) gargantua dynamic driver of the Zen Pro comes close to those levels of performance.

The treble transition is seamlessly smooth, yielding a clear high end with no harshness or sibilance. The treble is definitely better extended than OG Zen and seems a bit more present in the lower treble area. The top end does lack the effortlessness of the Traillii or the sparkle of the Elysium. Expectedly, it is not as crisp and resolving as with many of the EST-based IEMs, resulting in less aggressive detailing but also a generally pleasant an non-fatiguing sound. Again, the treble of the Zen Pro is more impressive when taken out of context and not juxtaposed to the bass and midrange, which do tend to crowd it out somewhat.

Lastly, the presentation of the Zen Pro is more than noteworthy in itself. The deep soundstage is one of the most apparent and striking aspects of the sound. Sound stage height and width is similarly spacious, giving the Zen Pro an open feel on par with many closed back headphones.

Compared to the FD7, Zen Pro sounds a bit more dynamic and vivid overall. By contrast, FD7 sounds more relaxed, romantic and slightly warmer. FD7 has some of the most realistic reproduction of stringed instruments I’ve heard out of an in-ear outside of the JVC FX series, adding to their excellent timbre the right amount of crispness, detail, and texture for the most minute nuances of string motion to be distinguished. By comparison, Zen Pro’s timbre for stringed instruments has a slight metallic tinge and edginess. Piano, woodwinds and percussion however sounds very tactile and real on Zen Pro which surprised me greatly.

I loved the OG Zen but ended up selling because it lacked the last 5-10% of intangibles and tuning prowess. Now with the Zen Pro, Dunu seemed to found that last bit of ingredients to perfect it.

I am considering to acquire one for myself.

Beautiful pic, great impressions...thanks for sharing!
 
Dec 18, 2021 at 1:14 AM Post #7,235 of 87,687
My companions tonight:

D05F8DC4-05E8-4534-A6A4-CB07D5A1CCE8.JPEG

I rescind my earlier impressions-- this is or is damn near as good as it gets. That this entire setup pictured here (MacBook not withstanding) can be had for <$500 is, quite honestly, staggering.

 
Dec 18, 2021 at 1:25 AM Post #7,236 of 87,687
Rockwell's 2021 Top 5 Dec 17 Edition

Timeless makes an impressive debut...will it stand the test of time...

1) Dunu Zen Pro
2) 7HZ Timeless
3) Oriolus Isabellae
4) Cayin RU6
5) 64 Audio Duo

Runner UP: AK SR25 MKii
 
Dec 18, 2021 at 1:28 AM Post #7,237 of 87,687
Thanks @Rockwell75 for letting me try his Zen Pro and Moondrop Kato.

Here is my brief first impressions of the Zen Pro:



Similar to the OG Zen, Zen Pro has very satisfying bass depth, control and texture. Bass transient (attack and decay) behavior is among the best I’ve heard out of in-ears, beating out the IER-Z1R in technical prowess by a hair but loosing out in a sheer extension by few clicks. The bass of the Zen Pro is also characterized by its versatility as it can be quite nimble and pacey on fast bpmed(?) techno and house tracks but also manages wonderfully realistic and organic on classical or jazz when necessary. The mid-bass of the Zen Pro is weighted ideally for my taste and it works amazingly well with most of my music library. The midrange is most definitely the meat of the Zen Pro’s sound signature. Tuning is slightly upper mid-forward but, unlike the OG Zen, the Pro doesn’t really ‘shout’ its midrange on to the listener. It has an uncanny ability to ‘centre’ the vocalist in its headstage, seemingly escaping stereo separation almost completely, but at the same time avoids the somewhat excessively intimate and forwardness of the OG Zen.



The mids are smooth yet there are gobs of details and micro dynamics to sound not boring and counter the full bodied nature of the bass to lower mids transition. Clarity is excellent but the midrange isn’t as crisp as, for instance, multi BA driven Traillii or GS Audio SE11, but I appreciate how the detail is not presented as aggressively. And Yes, most of the thinner-sounding high-end armatures (Odin and MEST for example) still have the upper hand when it comes to clarity, imaging and microdetail, but it is amazing how close the (comparatively) gargantua dynamic driver of the Zen Pro comes close to those levels of performance.

The treble transition is seamlessly smooth, yielding a clear high end with no harshness or sibilance. The treble is definitely better extended than OG Zen and seems a bit more present in the lower treble area. The top end does lack the effortlessness of the Traillii or the sparkle of the Elysium. Expectedly, it is not as crisp and resolving as with many of the EST-based IEMs, resulting in less aggressive detailing but also a generally pleasant an non-fatiguing sound. Again, the treble of the Zen Pro is more impressive when taken out of context and not juxtaposed to the bass and midrange, which do tend to crowd it out somewhat.

Lastly, the presentation of the Zen Pro is more than noteworthy in itself. The deep soundstage is one of the most apparent and striking aspects of the sound. Sound stage height and width is similarly spacious, giving the Zen Pro an open feel on par with many closed back headphones.

Compared to the FD7, Zen Pro sounds a bit more dynamic and vivid overall. By contrast, FD7 sounds more relaxed, diffused, romantic and slightly warmer. FD7 has some of the most realistic reproduction of stringed instruments I’ve heard out of an in-ear outside of the JVC FX series, adding to their excellent timbre the right amount of crispness, detail, and texture for the most minute nuances of string motion to be distinguished. By comparison, Zen Pro’s timbre for stringed instruments has a slight metallic tinge and edginess. Piano, woodwinds and percussion however sounds very tactile and real on Zen Pro which surprised me greatly.

I loved the OG Zen but ended up selling because it lacked the last 5-10% of intangibles and tuning prowess. Now with the Zen Pro, Dunu seemed to found that last bit of ingredients to perfect it.

I am considering to acquire one for myself.
That's very promising! I was waiting for this comparison. Can you focus a bit more on how is the bass performance of Zen Pro compared to FD7? From other graphs it really seemed that Zen Pro has the subbass a bit compromised, however, from your graph it doesn't seem to be that serious.

Also, I would prefer to know, between FD7 and Zen Pro, which one sound more spacious and airy and grand?

Edit: Well, I went to your graph database and compared them:

graph (6).png


Well, it looks like the FD7 does have noticeably less emphasis at and past 10 kHz till may be 12 kHz, and then the Zen Pro highs drops off more sharply. Does it affect in the airiness of the sound? Does FD7 treble sound more extended but a bit laid back, and Zen Pro treble more lively but less extended? Or can our ears not pick up this difference?
 
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Dec 18, 2021 at 1:29 AM Post #7,238 of 87,687
Rockwell's 2021 Top 5 Dec 17 Edition

Timeless makes an impressive debut...will it stand the test of time...

1) Dunu Zen Pro
2) 7HZ Timeless
3) Oriolus Isabellae
4) Cayin RU6
5) 64 Audio Duo

Runner UP: AK SR25 MKii
My Timeless is so delayed. Where is it?? I ordered in mid November lol
 
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Dec 18, 2021 at 1:32 AM Post #7,239 of 87,687
My Timeless is so delayed. Where is it?? I ordered it mid November lol

From where? I ordered mine direct from Linsoul last Friday or thereabouts...had it in less than a week. You'll get to hear it next week regardless (along with the RU6).
 
Dec 18, 2021 at 1:45 AM Post #7,241 of 87,687
AliExpress 😞
Oh snap…it’s probably stuck on a cargo ship somewhere or worse floating around the strait of Georgia in a storage container. I hope it turns up. In the meantime @claud W’s idea of ordering another one to have a backup on hand is seeming better and better as my hours on it wear on.
 
Dec 18, 2021 at 1:51 AM Post #7,242 of 87,687
That's very promising! I was waiting for this comparison. Can you focus a bit more on how is the bass performance of Zen Pro compared to FD7? From other graphs it really seemed that Zen Pro has the subbass a bit compromised, however, from your graph it doesn't seem to be that serious.

Also, I would prefer to know, between FD7 and Zen Pro, which one sound more spacious and airy and grand?

Edit: Well, I went to your graph database and compared them:



Well, it looks like the FD7 does have noticeably less emphasis at and past 10 kHz till may be 12 kHz, and then the Zen Pro highs drops off more sharply. Does it affect in the airiness of the sound? Does FD7 treble sound more extended but a bit laid back, and Zen Pro treble more lively but less extended? Or can our ears not pick up this difference?
My ear doesn’t pick up the FD7’s treble extension. Probably because I am 43 and don’t hear much past 15KHz.
Treble generally sounds a bit more energetic on Zen Pro.

Staging differences between the two:

FD7 sounds like our local Orpheum theatre where orchestra is playing, everything sounds grand albeit a bit hazy and diffused.

Zen Pro sounds like the Chen centre with much better acoustic treatments with the ideal ITD (time to first reflection) of 20-25 ms. Staging is not as spread out but instruments are more locked-in and portrayed vividly. Deeper staging as well.
 
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Dec 18, 2021 at 2:02 AM Post #7,243 of 87,687
Oh snap…it’s probably stuck on a cargo ship somewhere or worse floating around the strait of Georgia in a storage container. I hope it turns up. In the meantime @claud W’s idea of ordering another one to have a backup on hand is seeming better and better as my hours on it wear on.
Try to put 100+ hours on yours. We should try a double blind test to debunk burn-in theory if mine miraculously shows up next week.
 
Dec 18, 2021 at 2:06 AM Post #7,244 of 87,687
Staging is not as spread out but instruments are more locked-in and portrayed vividly.
This is exactly what I feel with my IMR SOR.

So that means Zen Pro looks like the better value for money, since while upgrading I would most definitely prefer to have more vivid portrayal and sharper imaging rather than diffused. Still, would prefer to listen to the FD7 once before deciding.

Now that this comparison is out of the way, only the Dark Sky vs. Zen Pro comparison is pending. I hope @Scuba Devils will provide this in the course of time, not gonna splurge on any until I get this.
 

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