[deep2285]

Let me give it a try, hoping that others will add/correct:

Note weight is the way one single isolated note stands out and can be described. A good example is a note played on the keyboard (striking the exact tone you want but coming across a bit flat and 2 dimensional), vs the same note on a piano (again striking the exact tone you want but adding more life, timbre, reverb in different ways, et cetera).

Note weight makes that single note more lifelike; almost as a living thing of its own. Think BA bass vs DD bass. Or the more ethereal treble of EST vs slightly thicker BA treble.

Note weight is not necessarily a quality label, but I can never have too much of it, as it fills in the contours of a shape or, here, the tone.

drftr

Wouldn't it require an in-depth understanding of how many instruments sound in real life?

 

[tjzurlaaa]

I think I'm going to sell my EE Odins. I know I'll lose my ass on them but the Monarch MKIIIs and my DUNUs are mostly indistinguishable...not gonna pull the trigger yet, but certainly considering it.

I'd suggest messing with a different source.. I’ve had some big wow moments with the Odin just gotta get the synergy right

 

[maegnificant]

The redemption arc has been completed.

 

[fejnomit]

Wouldn't it require an in-depth understanding of how many instruments sound in real life?

It's not an understanding. It's more a feeling of rightness or correctness. Our ears are incredibly sensitive to "live" sounds, whether music or not. Our hearing is the product of hundreds of thousands of years of evolution wherein it was essential to gauge the type, location and potential threat level of any sound.

 

[Deezel177]

Wouldn't it require an in-depth understanding of how many instruments sound in real life?

Not necessarily. I’d venture to guess none of us know what a missile strike or nuclear bomb sounds like in real life, but when we see them in movies, we can intuit how powerful or impactful they are based on how they sound. The same applies to note weight. When an IEM renders music with good weight, there’s a power and punch that come with it. So, even when we haven’t heard that exact instrument in real life, we’ll still be able to intuit its power, impact and weight.

 

[drftr]

You can achieve note weight in several different ways. The easiest is to bump up the low-mids or mid-bass as @drftr was implying, but that's a faux sort of weight, just like how pushing treble gives you faux detail. It's adding fat, rather than muscle. Notes will feel meatier, but you're also potentially introducing a veil or woolliness, which hurts clarity.

Tnx for writing this. It took me 2.5 yrs until this very moment to realize I only want to mids to be warmer and lusher because of the lack of note weight in that area. I have been looking for compensation instead of a solution.

Wouldn't it require an in-depth understanding of how many instruments sound in real life?

Contrary to others I would answer this with Yes, but only because otherwise you couldn't figure out where note weight ends and bloat starts, as more is not always better.

drftr

 

[drftr]

The redemption arc has been completed.

Interestingly after 3 videos and thousands of clicks still not a single word about whether they sound better or not. It's just about valid theories and measurements, which is interesting, but close to irrelevant for how we value sound. If you enjoy the sound of an IEM with an objective 100% more distortion better than any other IEM, why would you care?

drftr

 

[freeryder05]

Interestingly after 3 videos and thousands of clicks still not a single word about whether they sound better or not. It's just about valid theories and measurements, which is interesting, but close to irrelevant for how we value sound. If you enjoy the sound of an IEM with an objective 100% more distortion better than any other IEM, why would you care?

drftr

I think the point that headphones.com is trying to make is that their is distinct value in IEMs and Headphones. They're not trying to tell you one is better than another or that one preference is correct to another.

After speaking with a lot of members of hp.com and hanging around their discord server, it feels like their main goal is not tell you what sounds good, but further explain why things sound good so consumers can pick for themselves what fits their lifestyle. I have found this approach to be a very refreshing take on sales and it also has helped me understand why I like what I like.

 

[Rockwell75]

Interestingly after 3 videos and thousands of clicks still not a single word about whether they sound better or not. It's just about valid theories and measurements, which is interesting, but close to irrelevant for how we value sound. If you enjoy the sound of an IEM with an objective 100% more distortion better than any other IEM, why would you care?

What we're witnessing here I am guessing is an extreme form of objectivism. I think for folks with the mindset that everything meaningful in a sound sig can be captured in FR curves (or measurements generally) then perhaps looking at measurments of an IEM is in some sense tantamount to actually hearing it, or mostly hearing it. Personally I feel this is backwards...bonkers even...and I can't relate to this approach at all, but to each their own. The first powerful lesson I learned in this hobby is that there is no substitute for actually hearing something for yourself. For me appreciating the sound of an IEM is more about the feeling I get when listening or the overall gestalt of the experience of listening to it than a sum total of parts or a 2-dimensional representation that can be displayed on a graph. YMMV and all that.

 

[drftr]

What we're witnessing here I am guessing is an extreme form of objectivism. I think for folks with the mindset that everything meaningful in a sound sig can be captured in FR curves (or measurements generally) then perhaps looking at measurments of an IEM is in some sense tantamount to actually hearing it, or mostly hearing it. Personally I feel this is backwards and I can't to relate to this approach at all, but to each their own. The first powerful lesson I learned in this hobby is that there is no substitute for actually hearing something for yourself. For me appreciating the sound of an IEM is more about the feeling I get when listening or the overall gestalt of the experience to it that a sum total of parts or a 2-dimensional representation that can be displayed on a graph. YMMV and all that.

I'm not sure "we" are getting it at all. It almost seems that the quality of an IEM has nothing to do with the sound; even though many/most/all of us buy them for listening to music.

I do confess I haven't read the accompanying paperwork though. So I'm afraid we have seriously mistaken their utility.

Will do a quick search on what other people use them for. Perhaps ChatGPT can be of any help?

drftr

 

[wolfstar76]

Hello everyone.

Attending the upcoming meeting in Amsterdam on 23-24 of March, I am confronted with an important but maybe numb question about travelling with audio devices.

I have never travelled with battery-powered gears (i.e. external amps and powerbanks) or usb devices like dongles and dac-amp. Even less with a dozen of IEMs. I don't want to let my sensitive and precious stuff in my checked-in luggage, but I would like to take them with me on the plane.

Do you think it could be an issue at the security control? I am flying from Switzerland, if it matters...

Thanks in advance for your advice and recommendation.

Let me give it a try, hoping that others will add/correct:

Note weight is the way one single isolated note stands out and can be described. A good example is a note played on the keyboard (striking the exact tone you want but coming across a bit flat and 2 dimensional), vs the same note on a piano (again striking the exact tone you want but adding more life, timbre, reverb in different ways, et cetera).

Note weight makes that single note more lifelike; almost as a living thing of its own. Think BA bass vs DD bass. Or the more ethereal treble of EST vs slightly thicker BA treble.

Note weight is not necessarily a quality label, but I can never have too much of it, as it fills in the contours of a shape or, here, the tone.

drftr

@drftr just nailed it. However, I am still thinking about the reason behind thin and thick note weight, such as keyboard vs piano. Is it related to how the sound decays? For example, piano with huge metal structure will create the same sound with longer decay, likely with more lower frequency vibration.

Therefore, DD > BA > EST in term of slower decay. On the other hand, UM flagship IEMs use BCD with BA re-create the low frequency vibration to produce very thick note weight.

 

[drftr]

@drftr just nailed it. However, I am still thinking about the reason behind thin and thick note weight, such as keyboard vs piano. Is it related to how the sound decays? For example, piano with huge metal structure will create the same sound with longer decay, likely with more lower frequency vibration.

Therefore, DD > BA > EST in term of slower decay. On the other hand, UM flagship IEMs use BCD with BA re-create the low frequency vibration to produce very thick note weight.

I think both echo, decay, and the speed of the driver are part of it. When listening to live music you get a very large part of a note through thousands of reflections from the surroundings that reach your eardrum at very different moments, therefore coming across as slower, thicker, whatever. An IEM can't mimic that but the technically inferior DD is so slow by itself that it actually mimics that live experience better than other drivers.

EDIT: Funny enough this links to my YT remarks, as less quality produces a more lifelike sound in this case, and objective quality sounds inferior instead.

drftr

 

[maegnificant]

Interestingly after 3 videos and thousands of clicks still not a single word about whether they sound better or not. It's just about valid theories and measurements, which is interesting, but close to irrelevant for how we value sound. If you enjoy the sound of an IEM with an objective 100% more distortion better than any other IEM, why would you care?

drftr

That's not entirely true, he did say that IEMs are more personal and that he prefers them over headphones. He enjoys the technical and science aspects a lot, too. I am sure that's why he does what he does for a living.

 

[Infoseeker]

What we're witnessing here I am guessing is an extreme form of objectivism. I think for folks with the mindset that everything meaningful in a sound sig can be captured in FR curves (or measurements generally) then perhaps looking at measurments of an IEM is in some sense tantamount to actually hearing it, or mostly hearing it. Personally I feel this is backwards...bonkers even...and I can't relate to this approach at all, but to each their own. The first powerful lesson I learned in this hobby is that there is no substitute for actually hearing something for yourself. For me appreciating the sound of an IEM is more about the feeling I get when listening or the overall gestalt of the experience of listening to it than a sum total of parts or a 2-dimensional representation that can be displayed on a graph. YMMV and all that.

You are not wrong. But.....You are overthinking things.
Like when someone makes themselves angry imagining a scenario where their neighbor will come over to argue.....the neighbor has never done anything. You are way too excited! haha


So the video was no "extreme objectivism" of forcing people to have a certain opinion and FRs. (but I understand your point of how such people are wrong, but this didn't happen in any of the videos xD)

Seems they were just an introduction about what is involved behind using IEMs.

To let people realize what an IEM is. Not telling us what to feel about them.

Basically the videos have been:
"we have ears"
"we have ears lobes"
"we have ears canals"
"we can stick things inside ears in different ways"
"how the microphone, that companies use, will be different than your personal ears"
"iems put you in a quiet place to vibe"
"figure out the rest on your own at your own pace."

 

[Deezel177]

@drftr just nailed it. However, I am still thinking about the reason behind thin and thick note weight, such as keyboard vs piano. Is it related to how the sound decays? For example, piano with huge metal structure will create the same sound with longer decay, likely with more lower frequency vibration.

Therefore, DD > BA > EST in term of slower decay. On the other hand, UM flagship IEMs use BCD with BA re-create the low frequency vibration to produce very thick note weight.

I think decay (or sustain) is as much of an effect as note weight is. The causes behind both these qualities are, in my opinion, the weight, thickness and size of the diaphragm within them. If you notice the order you've put the driver technologies - DD > BA > EST - they're in order of how heavy, large (or small) and quick their respective diaphragms are. DDs tend to be large with heavier films, so they move slower and hit harder, resulting in a heavier, more physical, more tactile note. On the opposite end is the extremely nimble EST, which moves quicker and produces light, dainty, feathery notes. BCDs have larger diaphragms too, which is probably how they add substantiality and weight.

If you took this concept to the drum kit, you'd see a near-perfect facsimile. The smaller toms are higher in tone with less punch and a quicker decay, while the huge floor tom is deep in tone, extremely punchy and sustains for ages. So, I wouldn't say decay causes notes to have weight. But, it can be argued that the things that give notes sustain is what gives them weight as well.