[LFC_SL]

If it takes a 'few months' to put together circa 8k of disposable income, that buyer is in the top 10%. Not Beyoncé money, no, but certainly above average earnings. Again this is not begrudging people's happiness and spending choices. I have not heard the latest UM flagships. What I heard at London 2023 was okay but not amazing. Then you find out the UM price tag that is when the value score is low

If I had 8k that must be spent I would get a custom from 64 Audio, Fir Audio or Jerry Harvey Audio and the Final Audio D8000 Pro - nothing from Final Audio has perfect frequency but that bass texture yum

 

[Leto Dal]

If by releasing their most expensive IEM at fairly short intervals, UM is guilty of milking the whales, then there are many other companies doing the same. “Whales” are relative. Many of us here would be considered as whales if we were to jump into the oceans of KZ, Truthear, etc. And these companies release way more “TOTL” of their own in even shorter intervals.

Yeah its a common thing in many luxury fields. From my experience such companies dont stay around longer than a decade.
Personally I am enjoying knowing, that a year or two of development work went into a product that I pay few kilobucks for and that the product will remain unique and relevant on its own. See ZMF and few other smaller IEM companies / solo makers.

 

[drftr]

If by releasing their most expensive IEM at fairly short intervals, UM is guilty of milking the whales, then there are many other companies doing the same. “Whales” are relative. Many of us here would be considered as whales if we were to jump into the oceans of KZ, Truthear, etc. And these companies release way more “TOTL” of their own in even shorter intervals.

It's the whales who decide to be milked.

If you never milk a cow its udders are not full every single day. Likewise if you enjoy being milked as a whale it's difficult to get away from the party. While if you only allow to be milked every few years you'll be just fine.

drftr

 

[theveterans]

I respectfully disagree with the bias, present in all walks of audiophilia, that bigger is better. It's akin to more expensive is better. First off, it's not clear what is meant by bigger. Are you talking the physical size of the transducers? Wattage of the amps? I heard a number of two-channel systems in my prime as a two-channel guy that topped $1 million with some of the physically largest speakers available, all the way from 4-way vintage horns to TOTL Wilsons and I humbly submit that my experience just yesterday listening to my Timsok TS-316s through my RU7 was more resolving and emotional and pinpoint accurate and thunderous and all-enveloping than I ever heard a room, even a treated one in private studio. I also don't think IEMs are necessarily striving to sound like headphones and headphones like speakers. They each bring different technicalities and listening experiences to the table. I am not trying to be disagreeable but I have learned over 30 years in the hobby that some of these "truths" we trade are not always true. Bigger is not always better. More expensive is certainly not always better. And better specs don't necessarily sound better, etc.

I'm a simple man. I want to hear what the best of headphones and IEMs can do. I still don't think they're comparable at all given the fact that they're physically limited by sound wave path and thus an IEM can get close through driver and housing chamber tech but never replicate the presentation of an open back headphones. I just know there's still no ceiling yet in IEMs in resolution and details aspect (not imaging or soundstage or physicality) especially if you're accustomed to the resolution and detail retrieval of e-stat or Susvara headphones.

 

[drftr]

Yeah its a common thing in many luxury fields. From my experience such companies dont stay around longer than a decade.
I personally enjoying knowing that year or two of work went into a product that I pay few kilobucks for and that the product will remain unique and relevant on its own. See ZMF and few other smaller IEM companies / solo makers.

I don't think that is correct. Look at Ferrari and the like. In our own hobby there's Stax, Audio Research, Mark Levinson and dozens and dozens of others that are going strong for half a century already. Their higher priced gear has created top notch development labs that keep them ahead of the game.

drftr

 

[Frankie D]

Anyway, enough about headphones in this IEM dominated thread…

Let’s go headphones!

 

[Leto Dal]

I don't think that is correct. Look at Ferrari and the like. In our own hobby there's Stax, Audio Research, Mark Levinson and dozens and dozens of others that are going strong for half a century already. Their higher priced gear has created top notch development labs that keeps them on top of the game.

I beleive you are missunderstanding my point, I have zero issue with highly priced products, I run a company in luxury field myself. Its about replacing your own flaship products within few month, while your brand still have the momentum.

 

[drftr]

I beleive you are missunderstanding my point, I have zero issue with highly priced products its about replacing your own flaships within few month, while your brand still have the momentum.

Clearly I misunderstood - my bad...

However, imagine you as a new designer/developer join UM and they tell you you do incredible and groundbreaking work BUT can only have 1 idea per 1.5 years.

Not gonna work. It's you who makes them think "Geez, this is so good, what should we do?". We both know the answer.

drftr

 

[aaf evo]

I beleive you are missunderstanding my point, I have zero issue with highly priced products, I run a company in luxury field myself. Its about replacing your own flaship products within few month, while your brand still have the momentum.

They didn’t replace something that’s only a few months old though. The Le Jardin is 2 years old. While I think that’s still quite short of a time for a $7999 priced IEM to be “one-up’d” two years isn’t exactly 3 months either.

 

[Leto Dal]

Clearly I misunderstood - my bad...

However, imagine you as a new designer/developer join UM and they tell you you do incredible and groundbreaking work BUT can only have 1 idea per 1.5 years.

Not gonna work. It's you who makes them think "Geez, this is so good, what should we do?". We both know the answer.

drftr

As designer / developer I know that a good product takes A LOT of time. If you slightly rework existing product and push it on the market with different features as a "new flagship", its a different story, this way you can make a lot of money if your brand is popular and currently has some hype momentum short time. The issue is, in the luxury field slow horses win the game long term.

Looking at the current headphone game, imagine ZMF releasing a new "better" version of the Caldera yearly, I strongly believe they would lose big chunk of their current existing fanbase and the cult status they currently have.

 

[PixelSquish]

It's a misconception that only financially very wealthy people will buy an Amber Pearl or a Mason FS. There are plenty of people who been putting cash aside for many months to get it or sold a significant chunk of their collection. Many of those people expected a flagship product like Traillii or let's say the Susvara that will remain flagships for years to come. Objectivly without hearing it, AP is probably a great IEM and will remain a great IEM, but I understand the sentiment against UM FOMO strategy and monetizing on whales, pushing one "flagship" release out after another.

With all due respect, you are not in position to patronize people what to do with their money and what responsible financial decisions are.

Be careful, if you question UM's and some other brands greed fomo strategy and that a lot of these luxury buys are more status symbols than anything else, you might get personally attacked on here. I can vouch, it happened to me.

 

[Leto Dal]

No worries I am fine and am always enjoying a healthy discussion

 

[CodenameBK201]

Be careful, if you question UM's and some other brands greed fomo strategy and that a lot of these luxury buys are more status symbols than anything else, you might get personally attacked on here. I can vouch, it happened to me.

I had a gif for this, hold on.

Ah, there it is.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

You are a master of rhetoric. This reads like an appeasement of the shitstorm (justified or not), that recently spread across UM. It gives the AP its authority without referencing the Mason's new technology. Well done.

The problems with all the reviews/impressions I read here, I can't believe any of this until I tested it myself. It's really hard to differentiate between people, that get a 35% discount or more and people, who are spending much more to verify all those hyped products and lose a lot in sale afterwards. No offense, I think everybody has his own opinion, but as a master of sale; I also know what to tell and what not. Keep in mind this is a big business everybody, those stuff cost more than cars do...

Sometimes I wish a more direct communication, more truthful, more real. We are the audiophiles, we are spending a big part of our salaries, we are the people that like to test new things, to find something "better" or "worse", so let us be honest to each other and mark commercial posts as in television or in Google.

BTW: Where can I buy those? ( just kidding)

I think one the main purposes of this thread is to get data points on whether or not an IEM is potentially for you. People can and should take those data points in any way they want. They can ignore them, use them to justify a blind buy, or triangulate them with other data points. We all have our own methods for determining what is truth. Not sure why you need to criticize @bigbeans for his impressions. You are free to take them or leave them as you want. I, personally, found his impressions useful. I am leaning toward buying one and these impressions help me get an understanding of what it is. Will I buy it based on what he says? Absolutely not. I will absolutely hear it firs in NYC. Then, I will decide. But, since he has a track record here and I know him personally, his impressions will weigh more in my own personal choice criteria than say, yours will.

 

[deep2285]

I respectfully disagree with the bias, present in all walks of audiophilia, that bigger is better. It's akin to more expensive is better. First off, it's not clear what is meant by bigger. Are you talking the physical size of the transducers? Wattage of the amps? I heard a number of two-channel systems in my prime as a two-channel guy that topped $1 million with some of the physically largest speakers available, all the way from 4-way vintage horns to TOTL Wilsons and I humbly submit that my experience just yesterday listening to my Timsok TS-316s through my RU7 was more resolving and emotional and pinpoint accurate and thunderous and all-enveloping than I ever heard a room, even a treated one in private studio. I also don't think IEMs are necessarily striving to sound like headphones and headphones like speakers. They each bring different technicalities and listening experiences to the table. I am not trying to be disagreeable but I have learned over 30 years in the hobby that some of these "truths" we trade are not always true. Bigger is not always better. More expensive is certainly not always better. And better specs don't necessarily sound better, etc.

This is exactly how I feel when I listen to music on IEMs. It's inside my head. No other system can do that for me. Whether it is $100 or a million.