The Watercooler -- Impressions, philosophical discussion and general banter. Index on first page. All welcome.
Dec 21, 2021 at 8:30 AM Post #7,711 of 90,563
Just got my Timeless iems, changed straight away to a 4.4mm cable, as only 3.5mm was available, and with no hours on them (I maintain some gear benefits from some usage) these sound good, soundstage sounds ok not as wide as my others but not expecting them to compete toe to toe with much more expensive ones. They're clear and detailed, (detail is one of the first things I noticed) a little bright possibly but with other iems I've found these are tamed after so many hours and tip experimenting and I've switched to high gain as I've read these need a little more power. Hopefully they'll get even better with use.
 
Dec 21, 2021 at 9:16 AM Post #7,712 of 90,563
Happy Holidays everyone.
As a quick thank you to this wonderful community and to celebrate the season.

1640095968283.jpeg


Looking forward to 2022 CamJam NYC and hope to meet some of you there.
 
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Dec 21, 2021 at 9:57 AM Post #7,713 of 90,563
But those pros really don’t do enough to counteract the cons for me, with the big two being it takes forever to turn on, and the control buttons are too small and too close together. The first is certainly easy enough to counter, just disable the automatic shutdown, but the second makes my ideal use of a DAP as a pocket-player while on the train much harder to use.

Are you talking about MKii or MKi? The (small for my Frankenstein fingers) buttons took a bit of getting used to but I have a system that works now. Seems like a strange reason to dismiss a player that sounds so good :p

I found this incredible Canadian artist, Sarah McLachlan from a post in the Campfire Audio Multiverse thread, and I have fallen in love from the very first track:


I assume @Rockwell75 and @tgx78 would know her already. She has an incredible voice.


Yup Sarah is a local favorite-- there was a period there some time ago where, along with Celine & Shania you were practically issued her albums along with some maple syrup and your Canadian citizenship.



I finally got to hear the U12T thanks to @hlee227. My initial reaction, given my admiring but reserved stance toward the 64audio brand, took me completely by surprise. I freakin’ love this IEM. I love them so much I was literally crying during the audition today. Now I don’t want to return it next week lol. It seems to me that on the way to building a less expensive IEM in their line up, 64 Audio had- either intentionally or accidentally- come upon a new frontier of sound. I knew immediately I need to spend more time exploring this IEM and its tuning decisions.

After about 5 hours of non stop listening which gave me mild dehydration, I am finally in a position to give a small report on the U12T and, by extension, the MX15 and MX20 modules in general. What I can immediately confirm is that the U12T does indeed have a sound that is sculpted differently from all other IEMs I’ve heard to date. To these ears it is a better sound, and I’m going to tell you why.

But first, let’s begin with U12T’s foremost calling card: resolution. Thanks to its remarkable solidity, fluidity, high-grade drivers/internals, and effectiveness of vanishingly low resonance or low distortion tia driver, U12T sounds a shoulder or two above most other IEMs in extracting inner detail. I look at it as literally a detail-extracting perfectionist. For those who savor in-ears that unearth previously obscured details- and who in this hobby doesn’t?- the U12T is a delicious treat.

One of the first things I played through the U12T was the seemingly harsh and messy sounding (on most IEMs) “Stinkfest” from Tool’s masterwork Ænima. The U12T disclosed a previously unheard- even on highly revealing IEMs- exuberance of tiny components in the song’s ever-fascinating percussive underpinning. An already riveting track became even more so.

Furthermore, the inner detail delivered by the U12T manifests itself- without a trace of graininess, mind you- from top to bottom. Quite many in-ear speaker designs do well with midrange detail, but their top or bottom is a relative blur. Not so with the U12T, which is revealing of every nuance no matter where it falls. Further, the U12T doesn’t just produce transient-based detail like the aforementioned percussion; it is equally adept at unearthing timbral information. This is a distinct and complementary type of detail, one whose resolution makes instruments sound more real.

New details are one thing, and I don’t mean to diminish their impact. But for me a far more gripping experience is hearing how multiple musical lines and sonics, are being retrieved, layer on top of the other to create a whole. In truth, this is a much tougher test of an IEM, because one detail or musical event can easily overshadow- or completely obscure- another. Revealing everything at the same time requires not only superior resolution but also near-perfect linearity, phase alignment and timing. The U12T meets these additional requirements, and consequently pulls off the layering feat with unusual aplomb.

Of course, resolution of this caliber is no stranger to few top tiered flagships out there. What I particularly like about the U12T, though, is its ability to not only deconstruct the music, but to put it back together again into a cohesive, organic whole. If I had to choose between ultimate resolution and this ability to present the sum of the musical parts, I would opt for the latter. As it turns out, with the U12T there is no need to choose.

The U12T’s imaging also follows aforementioned resolution chops, which is to say that this IEM is an imaging champ. Few earphones are as adept as the U12T at creating the captivating illusion of a soundstage wholly independent from confined headstage. A soloist and supporting players are exactly where they’re supposed to be, yet without any “Hey, look at me!” hyperbole and, significantly, without drawing attention away from other musical elements. With the U12T, imaging is seamlessly woven into the overall sonic portrait.

Onto the Apex module- It is simply brilliant how I don’t need to worry about any pressure buildup inherent in many sealed BA IEMs. One change I do hear between MX15 and MX20 modules is in the area of increased bass of the MX20. Many reviewers have hailed the tight bass of well implemented BAs, but I have always found them a bit too tight and controlled. I tend to prefer the free-flowing ease of good vented DD designs, even if that means a tad less control. But the U12T offers a nice mixture of ease and control. On my M8, U12T’s bass unfailingly lets music flow without effort or strain. The U12T is equally impressive in other matters of bass. As best I can tell, the move from MX20 to MX15 has not compromised extension in any material way.

If I were being picky about its bass, I would say that in comparison to my reference IER-Z1R, the U12T’s low end is a bit less textured and dynamic. The low notes don’t breathe and bloom quite as marvelously as do notes elsewhere in its musical palette. However, I found that I was only aware of this on the grandest orchestral material.

We now arrive at the category where I hear by far the biggest controversial aspect of U12T sound: voicing. Call it what you will- richness, sweetness, warmth, or boring sound, the tonality of the U12T contrasts with many TOTL’s standard: strictly-neutral or squeaky clean aesthetic or academically tuned (harman research for example). This sweetness is what stole my heart in my short listening session and it immediately made its big presence obvious. Personally I find a slightly warm tonal balance to be consonant with the sound of live music- so long as it is not overdone. The U12T has no difficulty walking that line; its warmth is near natural sounding and certainly not too euphonic.

Listening to the culmination of the U12T’s sonic virtues can be quite a mind-expanding experience as it delivers a newfound vocal lushness, free-flowing bass, clean treble extension and accurate yet organic musicality.

Stunning writeup man I knew you were going to love it.

This is exactly why I don't own any mid-tier IEMs (XM4 excluded, but that's a specific use case) and also why I limit myself to one and at most two higher-end IEMs. Because if I don't mind it lying around unused for long stretches of time, why own it, and if I do mind it lying around for more than a few days unused, then I either use it or sell it. Just my world view, skewed as it might be.:sweat:

I don't mind not using every one of my IEMs every day but when I had the Elysium I felt bad if I listened to anything else because of how much it cost. Ultimately my love of variety (and, admittedly DD bass) trumped my considerable love of Elysium.

While it's true the Bird (at retail) is worth more than all my gear combined, I don't think the Ely comparison works because aside from Ely's midrange, I don't think it comes close to challenging the Bird on any other metric, nor do the two sound anything alike).

No they don't sound anything alike but Elysium is the only IEM I've heard, save Traillii, where I had something approaching the religious experience that @tgx78 had with the u12t...so I loosely lump them together. Zen Pro also has some Traillii-esque qualities in how it stages and resolves...though it lacks the epicness and grandeur.

...everything except a well-rounded DD because, you know, physics.

Indeed...I was actually thinking that they could mitigate some of that by using a bigger driver a la the LCDi4.


This right here is the U12t's superpower. Some people enjoy finding flaws or 'uniqueness', or want a more lively and energetic sound, in which case they'll probably find U12t boring.

For me the problem with u12t (apart from BA timbre and everything associated with that) is that it's so good at what it does-- detail, resolution, stripping everything down to the bare bones...that it becomes a more clinical & analytic experience...like I'm sitting there in a lab analyzing my music through a microscope when I should be swept off my feet by it. I know there are some-- many-- who want exactly this...but for me it feels almost too invasive or impersonal...and I often find myself losing sight of the forest for the trees. I found the same thing about Odin, ultimately-- it strikes me as more a tool for analysis than engagement. Honestly this is one of the reasons I love the Duo so much-- you get a lot of what makes the u12t & 64 IEMs great but with the added DD thump and presence...which of course reduces the technical capacity somewhat...but for me the tradeoff is so worth it. As with all things here YMMV.

But if there's one IEM I'd trust to just pick up and play anything consistently well at the highest level, it's the U12t. The Bird too but then we're talking big bucks.

I would agree with this. I often categorize IEMs broadly as leaning more towards the analytic or emotional side in the response they evoke. u12t and Traillii to me currently & respectively represent the pinnacle of each currently available on the market. Zen Pro, interestingly, is possibly the closest I've yet heard landing squarely in the middle-- it's a great mix of analytic and emotional...so long as you can handle a bit of spice up top. As a rule though I don't go for analytic IEMs-- but I can recognize their greatness when I see it as I have with the u12t.

And for me personally the IE 900 fills that role nicely for half the money, with better build and fit, though not admittedly at the technical calibre of U12t or Traillii.

I feel the same way about each of the 5 IEMs I have in my stable at the moment-- I can listen to any of them for hours or days on end without any issue.

I'm so often astounded in this hobby when people haven't heard of an artist I thought was world famous like Sarah. Track 7 on your playlist, Angel, is for me one of only a few 'perfect' songs, and probably the most poignantly emotional song I've ever heard. I can't sit through a listen without crying. And to hear her sing it is a religious experience.

Same-- I'm so familiar with her it probably borders on contempt haha...but I'm Canadian. I recommend anyone who loves Sarah to search out Tori Amos.

Happy Holidays everyone.
As a quick thank you to this wonderful community and to celebrate the season.



Looking forward to 2022 CamJam NYC and hope to meet some of you there.

Beautiful pic...love the color contrast. Happy holidays from me and my cats and greetings from my home to yours.

66A1E8B0-0B97-4C22-B515-18D972F04313.JPEG
 
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Dec 21, 2021 at 10:01 AM Post #7,714 of 90,563
Time to hop on the Sarah McLachlan hype train. 😆
Lol for us Canadians it reminds us of our younger years since her songs were on the radio non stop
 
Dec 21, 2021 at 10:03 AM Post #7,715 of 90,563
If you've ever wondered what at $200K USD speaker setup looks like.

Screen Shot 2021-12-21 at 7.02.44 AM.png
 
Dec 21, 2021 at 10:10 AM Post #7,716 of 90,563
If you've ever wondered what at $200K USD speaker setup looks like.

Screen Shot 2021-12-21 at 7.02.44 AM.png
Wow. I've heard these - or a variation of these - at a local audiophile a few years back. He said he sold off two of his luxury cars to afford them, but didn't care because he uses the speakers more than the cars. Really incredible sound - and also a sharp warning to anyone thinking of venturing down the speaker rabitthole that, unlike IEMs and headphones, a paltry $10K or $20K isn't going to get you to basecamp, let alone the summit.
 
Dec 21, 2021 at 10:12 AM Post #7,717 of 90,563
Wow. I've heard these - or a variation of these - at a local audiophile a few years back. He said he sold off two of his luxury cars to afford them, but didn't care because he uses the speakers more than the cars. Really incredible sound - and also a sharp warning to anyone thinking of venturing down the speaker rabitthole that, unlike IEMs and headphones, a paltry $10K or $20K isn't going to get you to basecamp, let alone the summit.

LMAO from what I've heard $10k or $20k won't even cover your cables. Whenever I feel pangs of guilt over the cost of some of my gear I remember that IEMs are the least expensive branch of the audiophile tree by some margin.
 
Dec 21, 2021 at 10:56 AM Post #7,718 of 90,563


Couldn't help myself, now I'm crying like a girl and need a breather. I blame @Ace Bee 😝


Ha ha.. I listened to that and "I will remember you"... Similarly full of feelings... These days songs like that really take me back to the 90's and how much I miss those days..
 
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Dec 21, 2021 at 11:02 AM Post #7,719 of 90,563
If you've ever wondered what at $200K USD speaker setup looks like.



I've always wanted to hear these, the Magico Ultimate III... but at $700,000 a pair, not likely

magico.jpeg
 
Dec 21, 2021 at 11:06 AM Post #7,721 of 90,563
Just got my Timeless iems, changed straight away to a 4.4mm cable, as only 3.5mm was available, and with no hours on them (I maintain some gear benefits from some usage) these sound good, soundstage sounds ok not as wide as my others but not expecting them to compete toe to toe with much more expensive ones. They're clear and detailed, (detail is one of the first things I noticed) a little bright possibly but with other iems I've found these are tamed after so many hours and tip experimenting and I've switched to high gain as I've read these need a little more power. Hopefully they'll get even better with use.
Your opinion has been exactly the same as mine. They have been overshadowed by the ie900 that arrived the next day but the timeless is very good value for money
 
Dec 21, 2021 at 11:15 AM Post #7,722 of 90,563
If you've ever wondered what at $200K USD speaker setup looks like.

Ahhh, beautiful - Vivid Audio. One of a small number of world class gems coming out of the South African audiophile industry.

Headed by ex B&W engineer Laurence Dickie, designer of the original Nautilus.

Are those the Giya G1 Spirit?
 
Dec 21, 2021 at 11:16 AM Post #7,723 of 90,563
LMAO from what I've heard $10k or $20k won't even cover your cables. Whenever I feel pangs of guilt over the cost of some of my gear I remember that IEMs are the least expensive branch of the audiophile tree by some margin.
The most expensive Siltech cable sells for $65,000 if that's any reference!

Most expensive set I've heard was (hold on tight) $450,000 and that was all the way back in 1990 so I assume you'd get way over a million nowadays.

drftr
 
Dec 21, 2021 at 11:17 AM Post #7,724 of 90,563
If you've ever wondered what at $200K USD speaker setup looks like.

looks like gryphon + vivid giya g3
cant see the pre amp and source :)
also see the voodoo synergistic research atmosphere lol
 
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Dec 21, 2021 at 11:28 AM Post #7,725 of 90,563
Are you talking about MKii or MKi? The (small for my Frankenstein fingers) buttons took a bit of getting used to but I have a system that works now. Seems like a strange reason to dismiss a player that sounds so good :p
The mark one. The buttons aren’t the only problem I have, but they are annoying enough that when combined with the rest it just adds up to a very nice, capable little box that unfortunately doesn’t fit into my use cases very well.

I would definitely get used to the buttons and deal with them if it fit better, but my problem is really just that despite it being constantly near me and visible, I just don’t reach for it when I want to listen to music.
 

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