[btwine]

There is only one reference currently, to me (as in accurate representation of what I hear in the recording studio, both sonically and spatially) , and that would be Storm.

An addendum the top 3 reference IEM question is “that is available in the market”. It seems Storm made it to a lucky 50 sets of ears, with no further units offered for pre-order from Subtonic.

 

[slumberman]

An addendum the top 3 reference IEM question is “that is available in the market”. It seems Storm made it to a lucky 50 sets of ears, with no further units offered for pre-order from Subtonic.

Then an addendum to your note would be that you have to be patient, as they said it’s coming.

Also, it’s available on the used market, as I personally know of three pairs that have exchanged hands already.

 

[tfenton02]

I was on a flight and had to ask the flightcrew for a spare headset because the A18s was so terrible— I offered them to her and even she declined the trade. There’s nothing redeeming about it.

For me, A18s has been my most used IEM (I hate the term favorite) for acoustic and male vocals. I also find it has amazing imaging and depth of soundstage. Having said that, RN6 CIEM running on my SP3K with C9 portable tube amp is quickly consuming more time for this genre.

 

[Jaytiss]

For me, my three reference sets are Aful Performer 8, Thieaudio Monarch MK 3, and the Supernova. All very good in their own rights. Great treble.

 

[ulverr]

I understand the term reference as a rather neutral sound, which also determines some actual quality or performance standards/limits. At this moment the only reference IEM for me is Ragnar.
( Haven’t heard the Storm yet…)

 

[Sound Eq]

greetings

i have the erlkonig and wonder if the Aura or the VE10 is a noticeable upgrade or not

and which is considered to a better iem the Aura or VE10

I am more leaning toward full organic sound, and mids should have a no compromise

I listen to all genres except classical

Or are both so similar sounding to the Erlkonig and I should look for something different

 

[Alpexis]

Is there a lucky person out there who has heard both MAD24 and Storm and can compare?

 

[GiullianSN]

Yeap! This is a lovely pair

I'm on another lovely pair right nowHope that will make the 16hrs flight to LA more bearable!



- Jordon

Have safe flight mate. And enjoy the show.

I can imagine Cleo Octa being a great pairing for Anni. I’m still to try this next level pairing.

 

[Deezel177]

Epic write-up. Must-read for every neutrality lover.

I am no expert in sound engineering, but I define 'neutrality' based on my perception of acoustic instruments, especially percussions and strings. I do find 'neutrality' a bit confined to acoustic tracks, as I find it difficult to define synthesized sounds.

To be frank I am yet to find an iem that sounds truly neutral. UERR comes close, if not sounding a bit soft. A lot of monitors in the market are tuned slightly brighter to emulate studio monitors (e.g. genelec) imo. This may be useful in mixing & mastering, but inevitably conferring less neutrality.

Thanks! Yeah, I'm the same. I grew up listening to live instruments at church, and I've since only played, engineered, mixed and mastered acoustic instruments as well. Even the MIDI (or programmed instruments) project I had to do for my audio engineering diploma was made to sound like a mic'ed record. With synthesized sounds, I don't mind if they sound "off-neutral", but I'd still want them to sound good, of course. When I'm mixing a massive band like the one at my church (over 50 channels' worth of mics and instrument inputs), I always make sure the acoustic instruments (like drums and vocals) sound correct first, then I EQ the keyboards, synthesizers and electric guitars to fit in and around them in the frequency band. They'd be the sounds I'd compromise most to achieve a clean, tidy mix.

Yeah, unfortunately, again, marketing has sort of tilted what reference or neutral means in most audiophiles' eyes. Around the time the HD800 really skyrocketed, it became a race for detail. "The most detailed IEM is the most reference one!" Which, clearly isn't true. Then, that pursuit of detail and clarity led to a lot of headphones and IEMs getting bright top-ends. They were obviously also after that instant gratification of hearing a ton of air and detail in your first 5 seconds with an in-ear; just long enough to get the client's credit card out, but not enough for the high-end fatigue and compression to set in when they listen to their fresh new purchase at home.

I've actually found these brighter signatures least conducive for mixing or mastering. Because they're so crisp and transient-heavy, it's much harder to hear what you're doing in the lower, warmer overtones. Say, you're EQ-ing a tom-tom. As much as you try to tune the low-end or midrange, the overwhelming sound you get is the stick hitting the skin; too much thwack relative to boom. The same goes for vocals. It's hard to tell when you've got the saturation of the upper-mids or the weight of the lower-mids just right when the singer's lips are smacking in your face and every sibilant becomes the loudest sound in the mix. It's difficult to tell when you've done enough to make them sound clean, when the IEM's crisp, airy signature already makes them sound clean in the first place. Maybe other engineers feel differently, but brighter-tiled sigs are always my least favorite to mix with.

Fantastic articulation of something that has been fuzzy for me. In the lack of an objective (not sure if that’s possible anyways) dictionary of audiophile languaging, these are the kind of Cooler footnotes that really deepen my understanding of the world I’ve immersed myself in.

That said I realize I don’t have any IEMs possessing the above definition of reference. Mentor would be closest but all commentary here indicates it is relatively warm, has sharpish treble, and deeper sub bass SQ vs. something neutral and transparent. I would love to hear a reference IEM and really engage with my music in new ways.

@Piotr Michalak had a nice list recently. Don’t know that this is a Cooler survey, but what are people’s top three reference IEMs?

My go-to references are a mix of that ideal reference I talked about and my personal reference. For a long time, it used to be the A18s. I find its signature unexaggerated and uncolored, apart from a slight mid-bass tilt and a softer low-treble. Now, my personal reference likes those two qualities, especially to ensure reliability even after long hours of mixing. I'd co-pilot that with my JH Audio Layla. It doesn't have the most colorless tone in the world, but its technical faculties made slight changes in levelling incredibly apparent. When I brought down a vocalist or a guitar by 1-1.5dB, I'd hear that instrument clearly take a step back on the Layla. So, I'd use those two in conjunction. But, I eventually retired them both with the JH Sharona. I consider it a better execution of the A18s's tone, whilst improving on the technical faculties of the Layla.

Now, it's very important to note that these references are for me as a mix and mastering engineer. I've heard people express the deepest vitriol for the IEMs I just mentioned, so please keep that heavily in mind.

greetings

i have the erlkonig and wonder if the Aura or the VE10 is a noticeable upgrade or not

and which is considered to a better iem the Aura or VE10

I am more leaning toward full organic sound, and mids should have a no compromise

I listen to all genres except classical

Or are both so similar sounding to the Erlkonig and I should look for something different

Not many people have heard the Aura, but the VE10 sounds like the full, rich, organic sound you're looking for. It's VE8-like in its intimacy and engagement, but with the air and refinement of the ELYSIUM up top. The Aura is probably more like the Erlkonig, because, by all accounts, it's similar to the PLE, which is similar to the PHoNIX, which is similar to the Erlkonig. But, I can't say for sure, as I haven't heard it.

 

[Ishcabible]

Is there a lucky person out there who has heard both MAD24 and Storm and can compare?

I have, but not back to back. I’m not positive if the MAD24 I heard was defective or not but it sounded incredibly cavey and echoey with really artificial midrange tone. I figured it was an entry level IEM until I looked it up and was quite shocked. It may have been defective in some way, but after finding measurements of it, they seemed to align pretty much exactly with how I heard it.

In contrast, the only thing I’m not fully down with the Storm is that I’d want a bit more body to the low midrange as it sounded a little dry/u-shaped. It was incredibly dynamic, sounded quite wide, and despite being brighter than I’d usually tolerate, portrayed treble in a way that didn’t bother me.

 

[Deezel177]

I have, but not back to back. I’m not positive if the MAD24 I heard was defective or not but it sounded incredibly cavey and echoey with really artificial midrange tone. I figured it was an entry level IEM until I looked it up and was quite shocked. It may have been defective in some way, but after finding measurements of it, they seemed to align pretty much exactly with how I heard it.

In contrast, the only thing I’m not fully down with the Storm is that I’d want a bit more body to the low midrange as it sounded a little dry/u-shaped. It was incredibly dynamic, sounded quite wide, and despite being brighter than I’d usually tolerate, portrayed treble in a way that didn’t bother me.

I'm in agreement with both. I know the MAD24's been refreshed at least a couple times, but the one I heard in 2017/2018 (I think?) was incoherent and messy-sounding. The Storm also isn't an IEM that perfectly strikes reference to me, because of that dryness in the midrange you mentioned. It also clearly has that sandy, powdery, e-stat texture in its treble, which carries over from track to track. As far as a listening reference, though, as in the last word when you wanna fully dissect a track and see all it has to offer, the Storm has a solid shot for sure. I just wouldn't personally mix or master with it.

 

[twister6]

After spending a few days with N30LE DAP loaner, I wanted to share with you my impressions of this latest limited edition flagship release from Cayin. Enjoy the read

 

[freeryder05]

Fantastic articulation of something that has been fuzzy for me. In the lack of an objective (not sure if that’s possible anyways) dictionary of audiophile languaging, these are the kind of Cooler footnotes that really deepen my understanding of the world I’ve immersed myself in.

That said I realize I don’t have any IEMs possessing the above definition of reference. Mentor would be closest but all commentary here indicates it is relatively warm, has sharpish treble, and deeper sub bass SQ vs. something neutral and transparent. I would love to hear a reference IEM and really engage with my music in new ways.

@Piotr Michalak had a nice list recently. Don’t know that this is a Cooler survey, but what are people’s top three reference IEMs?

UERR
JVC FDX1
Helios

 

[Smirk 24]

Don’t know that this is a Cooler survey, but what are people’s top three reference IEMs?

In no particular order: U12t, Monarch MK2, Helios, and maybe Crimson to an extent

 

[szore]

Free demo rooms!


https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/mcintosh-opens-house-of-sound-new-york-audio-showroom/