[CodenameBK201]

I’ll cut right to the chase, this isn’t an IEM I’d be willing to pay anywhere near its current MSRP for, at least for my tastes and priorities.

The thing is (and I feel like this merits a larger discussion, re: pricing trends in general), I find myself feeling the same way about most of the flagship recent releases. For better or worse, I've found myself progressively priced out of this rabbit hole we call a hobby, so much so that, aside from my wife surprising me with my IEMs, I find myself pretty much perpetually limited to the classifieds. When I purchased my Noble K10s about a decade ago, they ran me a little over $2000 (a couple hundred more when you factor in the cost of impressions and the custom Wizard design); nowadays, the lower end of flagships tends to come in around the ~3400 USD mark, if not more. I'm eyeing the Thummim, for example: at ~$2500 secondhand, it seems like you're getting a lot for what you're getting; at $4500 new, while I'm sure some are willing, and have, paid that much, the harsh reality is that IEMs then fall outside of my affordable budget.

I know perception of value is a sensitive topic, and we're all aware of the nature of diminishing returns past a certain dollar amount, but still, it's...disheartening, to say the least, to see the way prices have risen in recent years. I see a lot of vitriol thrown around on places like reddit/headphones (I know, I know, we don't mention the "r" word here), primarily a lot of complaints and insults and blame-throwing about how "companies are greedy" and "people who buy headphones that expensive are suckers", but the truth is, inflation and rising costs have hit everything. I still remember not 12 years ago how a Hot Toys Iron Man would run $150 flat at a local comic shop; now you pay around the $340 mark from Sideshow, and that's before tax and shipping. It's probably why the Supermoon feels like such a solid buy at $1500.

IEMs are luxury items, so it's not like they have to be affordable, and I certainly can't speak for everyone, but I can at least say, for myself, personally, the $1500-$2500 range is the sweet spot for me in terms of how much I can reasonably justify (to my wife) for my purchases; past that and it largely becomes a game of wait and see for open-box/demo/used units.

 

[gnahra]

The thing is (and I feel like this merits a larger discussion, re: pricing trends in general), I find myself feeling the same way about most of the flagship recent releases. For better or worse, I've found myself progressively priced out of this rabbit hole we call a hobby, so much so that, aside from my wife surprising me with my IEMs, I find myself pretty much perpetually limited to the classifieds. When I purchased my Noble K10s about a decade ago, they ran me a little over $2000 (a couple hundred more when you factor in the cost of impressions and the custom Wizard design); nowadays, the lower end of flagships tends to come in around the ~3400 USD mark, if not more. I'm eyeing the Thummim, for example: at ~$2500 secondhand, it seems like you're getting a lot for what you're getting; at $4500 new, while I'm sure some are willing, and have, paid that much, the harsh reality is that IEMs then fall outside of my affordable budget.

I know perception of value is a sensitive topic, and we're all aware of the nature of diminishing returns past a certain dollar amount, but still, it's...disheartening, to say the least, to see the way prices have risen in recent years. I see a lot of vitriol thrown around on places like reddit/headphones (I know, I know, we don't mention the "r" word here), primarily a lot of complaints and insults and blame-throwing about how "companies are greedy" and "people who buy headphones that expensive are suckers", but the truth is, inflation and rising costs have hit everything. I still remember not 12 years ago how a Hot Toys Iron Man would run $150 flat at a local comic shop; now you pay around the $340 mark from Sideshow, and that's before tax and shipping. It's probably why the Supermoon feels like such a solid buy at $1500.

IEMs are luxury items, so it's not like they have to be affordable, and I certainly can't speak for everyone, but I can at least say, for myself, personally, the $1500-$2500 range is the sweet spot for me in terms of how much I can reasonably justify (to my wife) for my purchases; past that and it largely becomes a game of wait and see for open-box/demo/used units.

Your point seems to be more around the absolute cost of flagship IEMs (or IEMs at large).
I don't want to speak for @Damz87, but i took his point to mean more the price of the Trifect relative to other IEMs priced roughly in the same range.
I'm not discounting your point, to be clear, but if we set aside the absolute cost of these flagships, to me (personally) it's more relevant to understand how the Trifecta stacks up against other $3k+ IEMs, so I find comments like @Damz87 very helpful.
Just my personal $0.02.

 

[AxLvR]

Not quite sure if these have been released elsewhere. But these arrived today. Courtesy of Jaben Singapore. The Softears Tremolo. Single DD customs.

Impressions please Kiats sensei I've been waiting for impressions on these myself, keen to hear it at SG Canjam!

P.S. We hope we'll see you at Canjam SG

 

[Rockwell75]

I don't want to speak for @Damz87, but i took his point to mean more the price of the Trifect relative to other IEMs priced roughly in the same range.

The most relevant point of his comment to me was "relative to my own tastes and priorities". At the end of the day the value of an IEM for someone consists in the experience that it gives them and whether this experience is worth the cost for them, and I suppose whether or not there is anything out there that can deliver the same experience for less money. Personally I don't think it's meaningful or helpful for the most part to describe an IEM in objective terms as "worth it" or not worth it as there are so many different variables in the matter and it's fundamentally a highly personal decision. We're all after different things in this hobby and precisely what we're after is in large measure determined by what kind of music we listen to and what we want out of the listening experience. Someone who listens mostly to instrumental jazz and acoustic instruments will likely have different needs and prioroities than someone who listens mostly to electronic music, for example. Alternately you could have two people who listen to the exact same music who yet have entirely different priorities with the listening experience Speaking only for myself (though I know I'm not alone in this) as someone who has sampled the length and breadth of the current TOTL market I feel that Trifecta is one of the comparaively few IEMs that decisively justifies its $3K+ cost. Alone of all the multi kilobuck IEMs I heard at CanJam Trifecta's sound sufficiently haunted me for months until I purchased it-- and it has only grown in my estimation since then. As a total package I would even go so far as to say that it shoots above its price relative to many other IEMs on the market. I am not saying it is perfect-- and I have outlined what I consider to be its main weaknesses in my review of the Trifecta (though a good number of those have been entirely mitigated for me with a little EQ)-- but right now it's the closest thing to a fully satisfying and perfect listening experience I have encountered in an IEM. YMMV etc. etc.. and all that.

(FWIW I have spent the better part of the last week a/b'ing the Trifecta and the UM Mentor, an IEM that retails for $1200 more, and Trifecta has more than held its own-- in many cases profoundly so-- in all the metrics that really matter to me personally. If I get the time I'll do a dedicated post about this later this weekend.)

 

[gnahra]

The most relevant point of his comment to me was "relative to my own tastes and priorities". At the end of the day the value of an IEM for someone consists in the experience that it gives them and whether this experience is worth the cost for them, and I suppose whether or not there is anything out there that can deliver the same experience for less money. Personally I don't think it's meaningful or helpful for the most part to describe an IEM in objective terms as "worth it" or not worth it as there are so many different variables in the matter and it's fundamentally a highly personal decision. We're all after different things in this hobby and precisely what we're after is in large measure determined by what kind of music we listen to and what we want out of the listening experience. Someone who listens mostly to instrumental jazz and acoustic instruments will likely have different needs and prioroities than someone who listens mostly to electronic music, for example. Alternately you could have two people who listen to the exact same music who yet have entirely different priorities with the listening experience Speaking only for myself (though I know I'm not alone in this) as someone who has sampled the length and breadth of the current TOTL market I feel that Trifecta is one of the comparaively few IEMs that decisively justifies its $3K+ cost. Alone of all the multi kilobuck IEMs I heard at CanJam Trifecta's sound sufficiently haunted me for months until I purchased it-- and it has only grown in my estimation since then. As a total package I would even go so far as to say that it shoots above its price relative to many other IEMs on the market. I am not saying it is perfect-- and I have outlined what I consider to be its main weaknesses in my review of the Trifecta (though a good number of those have been entirely mitigated for me with a little EQ)-- but right now it's the closest thing to a fully satisfying and perfect listening experience I have encountered in an IEM. YMMV etc. etc.. and all that.

(FWIW I have spent the better part of the last week a/b'ing the Trifecta and the UM Mentor, an IEM that retails for $1200 more, and Trifecta has more than held its own-- in many cases profoundly so-- in all the metrics that really matter to me personally. If I get the time I'll do a dedicated post about this later this weekend.)

Right.
In my opinon, whenever someone uses the term "worth it," I always infer "worth it to me." And you could finish that thought with, "worth it to me, given my preferences, my musical library, the rest of the chain - cables, DAP, etc etc." That's all hygeine stuff - goes without saying.
In other words, my reply to the first part of your post is, "yes, of course, 'worth it' is always personal." I don't know how it could be otherwise.

As for the Trifecta, it seems to me like we're getting to the point of dimishing returns on the discussion - folks basically keep saying the same thing over and over again. There's a "love it" camp and "hate it" camp. My read on your post is a bit defensive in tone - perhaps not your intent, but that's how I read it. You don't need to defending your position. You like it, you like it. That's great. If it holds its own to you, fantastic! Enjoy it. But that's not the case for many folks, and that's OK too.

To be clear - I haven't heard it, and I don't intend to, based on the sort of devisive feedback it's gotten.

 

[Rockwell75]

Right.
In my opinon, whenever someone uses the term "worth it," I always infer "worth it to me." And you could finish that thought with, "worth it to me, given my preferences, my musical library, the rest of the chain - cables, DAP, etc etc." That's all hygeine stuff - goes without saying.
In other words, my reply to the first part of your post is, "yes, of course, 'worth it' is always personal." I don't know how it could be otherwise.

As for the Trifecta, it seems to me like we're getting to the point of dimishing returns on the discussion - folks basically keep saying the same thing over and over again. There's a "love it" camp and "hate it" camp. My read on your post is a bit defensive in tone - perhaps not your intent, but that's how I read it. You don't need to defending your position. You like it, you like it. That's great. If it holds its own to you, fantastic! Enjoy it. But that's not the case for many folks, and that's OK too.

To be clear - I haven't heard it, and I don't intend to, based on the sort of devisive feedback it's gotten.

Cheers. I didn’t mean to take a defensive posture but admittedly I get a little triggered whenever the whole “value” discussion comes up as I feel that relative to the market and this IEM in particular CFA seems to get a disproportionate amount of scrutiny.

 

[gnahra]

Cheers. I didn’t mean to take a defensive posture but admittedly I get a little triggered whenever the whole “value” discussion comes up as I feel that relative to the market and this IEM in particular CFA seems to get a disproportionate amount of scrutiny.

No worries!
For what it's worth...I love CFA, as I think you know. As someone who has been watching the Trifecta movie (as opposed to being an actor in it), I don't think the scrutiny is unbalanced. There are probably just as many people who love it as those that the IEM doesn't resonate with. It's quite polarizing, but it seemed balanced (if that makes sense). The image that comes to mind is a dumbbell, versus for example a bell curve.

 

[CodenameBK201]

Cheers. I didn’t mean to take a defensive posture but admittedly I get a little triggered whenever the whole “value” discussion comes up as I feel that relative to the market and this IEM in particular CFA seems to get a disproportionate amount of scrutiny.

To be 1000% clear here: I'm referring to the cost of quality gear in general. I have  no negative opinions on CFA. I actually used to buy cables from them way back in the day when they still went under the ALO Audio label. Their pricing also isn't unheard of; it's fairly competitive, given the Odyssey runs about the same, and the XE6 is even more. I also can't remark on the value of the Trifecta specifically seeing as how I haven't heard it (and heaven help me, if I try it at CanJam and it really is that good, I'll probably try and make it work...somehow. They take kidneys, right?).

 

[CodenameBK201]

The most relevant point of his comment to me was "relative to my own tastes and priorities". At the end of the day the value of an IEM for someone consists in the experience that it gives them and whether this experience is worth the cost for them, and I suppose whether or not there is anything out there that can deliver the same experience for less money. Personally I don't think it's meaningful or helpful for the most part to describe an IEM in objective terms as "worth it" or not worth it as there are so many different variables in the matter and it's fundamentally a highly personal decision. We're all after different things in this hobby and precisely what we're after is in large measure determined by what kind of music we listen to and what we want out of the listening experience. Someone who listens mostly to instrumental jazz and acoustic instruments will likely have different needs and prioroities than someone who listens mostly to electronic music, for example. Alternately you could have two people who listen to the exact same music who yet have entirely different priorities with the listening experience Speaking only for myself (though I know I'm not alone in this) as someone who has sampled the length and breadth of the current TOTL market I feel that Trifecta is one of the comparaively few IEMs that decisively justifies its $3K+ cost. Alone of all the multi kilobuck IEMs I heard at CanJam Trifecta's sound sufficiently haunted me for months until I purchased it-- and it has only grown in my estimation since then. As a total package I would even go so far as to say that it shoots above its price relative to many other IEMs on the market. I am not saying it is perfect-- and I have outlined what I consider to be its main weaknesses in my review of the Trifecta (though a good number of those have been entirely mitigated for me with a little EQ)-- but right now it's the closest thing to a fully satisfying and perfect listening experience I have encountered in an IEM. YMMV etc. etc.. and all that.

(FWIW I have spent the better part of the last week a/b'ing the Trifecta and the UM Mentor, an IEM that retails for $1200 more, and Trifecta has more than held its own-- in many cases profoundly so-- in all the metrics that really matter to me personally. If I get the time I'll do a dedicated post about this later this weekend.)

I'd try and sum this up here with a witty retort, but I'm certain I'd butcher it.  This, pretty much. All of this. Well said.

 

[Onurb8690]

Brise Ultimate 8 Wire in the house!



I will reserve my full impressions for when it is broken in, but it's holy crap good. Jewel+Ultimate 8W is RIDICULOUS. I can comfortably say it's at the same level as the Orpheus, different tuning, but in terms of abilities and magic it's right up there. Uber black background, crazy micro details, huge stage, very natural and effortless. Incredibly clean and clear, shockingly so. It has that Orphy fatness and huge note weight, but it's more linear, with greater extension of both sub bass reach and treble airiness. More energetic with faster transients vs Orphy's more relaxed vibe - just super, super impressive. A large upgrade over the 4 wire to be sure, if anyone is wondering. While the 4 wire is amazing, this is something else entirely.

Once it is fully broken in, I look forward to sharing how it truly compares to Orphy in my full review in the coming weeks, so stay tuned. It's going to be quite a battle!

In terms of comfort how is it?

 

[swedishpat]

This may be off topic but I don’t know where to ask. Are there companies or people who sell preloaded micro sd cards with hi res music and playlists for DAPs ? I don’t have time to search download and transfer every single song. I would rather like to pay someone to do it. I tried google it but nothing showed up.

 

[CodenameBK201]

This may be off topic but I don’t know where to ask. Are there companies or people who sell preloaded micro sd cards with hi res music and playlists for DAPs ? I don’t have time to search download and transfer every single song. I would rather like to pay someone to do it. I tried google it but nothing showed up.

Astell and Kern used to sell box sets. I basically bought my Blue Note AK240 just for the album collection.
Alternatively, be like me, be lazy, and buy all your albums off Qobuz, then use the player to download directly to the card.

 

[swedishpat]

Astell and Kern used to sell box sets. I basically bought my Blue Note AK240 just for the album collection.
Alternatively, be like me, be lazy, and buy all your albums off Qobuz, then use the player to download directly to the card.

Oh I didn’t know you could download Qobuz purchases to cards. I thought you had to play in the app. That’s awesome! Will try that! Thanks

 

[CodenameBK201]

Oh I didn’t know you could download Qobuz purchases to cards. I thought you had to play in the app. That’s awesome! Will try that! Thanks

Yeah, I'm honestly not sure why anyone uses streaming. If you listen to music through a subscription service, sure, but otherwise why? I purchased volumes one and two of the Cyberpunk Edgerunners soundtrack (side note: This Fire is an absolute banger), off of Bandcamp, only to have them disappear. They still show up in my purchase history, and I was still charged. Thankfully I downloaded them in time, but I cant re-download them. I imagine they were removed for rights issues. Volume 3 I had to get through...well, let's call it "an online friend" and leave it at that.
I don't trust online streaming. Period. Given the opportunity, I always download. It takes up the same network bandwidth, and this way I have the security of having a backup combined with the convenience of not needing a wifi connection to play my music. I've seen so many titles disappear off Netflix and like services in recent years, my philosophy is, if you want it, download it.

That said, I try to purchase my music whenever possible to support the artists. For Japanese albums, this often means going through extra lengths just to get access to purchase sites, but I get my offline, 24 bit copy and the artist gets a cut, so it's worth the extra effort to me.

 

[Stu Paddasso]

To be 1000% clear here: I'm referring to the cost of quality gear in general. I have  no negative opinions on CFA. I actually used to buy cables from them way back in the day when they still went under the ALO Audio label. Their pricing also isn't unheard of; it's fairly competitive, given the Odyssey runs about the same, and the XE6 is even more. I also can't remark on the value of the Trifecta specifically seeing as how I haven't heard it (and heaven help me, if I try it at CanJam and it really is that good, I'll probably try and make it work...somehow. They take kidneys, right?).

You Still have Kidneys "NEW BEE"