Let me know what you're thinking for the cable. I hear the pwaudio 4 cable version is recommended. Trying to find a fabric covered version used if I can.
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The Watercooler -- Impressions, philosophical discussion and general banter. Index on first page. All welcome.
- Thread starter Rockwell75
- Start date
I want to discuss a little about an iem that has secretly been gaining some traction both on head-fi and in the Korean community. A reviewer from Headfonia awarded it as “the best IEM I tried this year, period” and this, in tandem with some head-fiers touting it with great praise, seems to have raised eyebrows of many for sheer curiosity's sake. I hesitated to leave an impression as I do not own any iems for an extensive side-by-side comparison. But after receiving a handful of humbling requests for impressions, I was prompted to sit down, listen, and decipher this mysterious iem - because that is what us audiophiles do
Nostalgia Audio Camelot
Chain of gear : LP6Ti -> Stock cable -> Camelot -> Stock black silicone eartip
Camelot is one of those iems where I felt burn-in was absolutely vital. Out of the box, it sounded dark with a rolled-off treble and a noticeable veil hovering over the midrange. The bass was slightly loose bleeding into the vocals and didn’t inspire any emotive listening time (even after cable and tip-rolling through my entire arsenal) until I gave it a good extensive burn-in. Burn-in did solve my biggest issue by lifting up the aforementioned veil and revealing a clearer midrange with a more articulate treble response. The bass also tightened up and became better controlled into its own compartment.
Its general signature is of a slight L-shape where the bass takes the center stage and the vocals and treble take half-a-step back. It is a slightly darker signature, but the details, clarity, and resolution are there that you wouldn’t necessarily find it lacking or veiled during critical listening sessions. It reminds me of the Xe6 a little where the upper-mid range is pulled back in comparison to the harman target. If you find the Harman target too bright or forward, this should work well for you.
Soundstage leans closer to disappointment, as my $1k Ov800 (my favorite iem in the “budget category”
) sounds more expansive with better height, width, and depth using the same stock cable that comes with Camelot (when paired with LP6Ti). It is certainly of a more closed-in presentation where it places you at the front row of a concert rather than giving a theatrical or cathedral-like performance. By 2022 and soon-to-be 2023 standards, I would have expected more from a $2k+ iem as it can get claustrophobic during intense analytical listening sessions. Its imaging and separation are evenly in line with its mediocre soundstage. Instruments are well separated with acceptable imaging, but I recall Mest MKii to have a more convincing presentation to spatially delineate instruments within its relatively closed-in bubble. With that being said, it has great cohesion to allow all parts of the frequency to flow smoothly from one to another.
Treble is its biggest shortcoming as this is one of the weaker EST implementations I’ve come across irregardless of price-range. The upper harmonics comes off a bit muted with a noticeable roll-off in the upper treble. Its treble lacks a bit of note weight that I find it being less ethereal and lean closer to wispiness, which I can foresee being a deal-breaker to some. If you found the Legend Evo too dark, it would be difficult for me to recommend Camelot with confidence.
Fantastic bass reproduction. This is what you’re in for if you’re thinking of owning a set yourself. The very first time I heard Camelot, I was taken back by how visceral its bass was with its textured oomph that I found so pleasantly addicting. Give it a good burn-in, let the drivers settle, and it will rattle your brain to the point of satisfaction. It does not have the abyssal depth of EVO, the incredible bass-air of Trifecta, or a woofer-like physicality of Xe6 - but this is a competent bass that I believe would satisfy the ears of many.
At the $2600 price range, Kublai Khan is its direct competitor - so logically, I took a trip to a local audio-store a few days ago to do a direct A/B comparison with the Camelot to see how it compares. After a forty-minute subway ride, imagine the shock on my face as I reached into my pocket to discover that I forgot to bring my DAP with me…
Thus, as an apology, my comparison review will be based on sheer memory, which is subject to being fallible due to the inconsistency of human hearing and memory. With that being said, I was able to hear the Kublai Khan just several hours ago so its sound is still quite fresh in my mind.
From memory, Kublai Khan has a more enveloping stage that expands in all directions with a more holographic presentation. Kublai Khan is more subbass oriented with a slightly thinner note-weight, and has better detail retrieval with more sparkly and extended treble. Camelot is comparatively darker with a noticeable roll-off in the upper spectrum of frequency. There isn’t much air in it and I can imagine it’ll come across a tad muted in direct comparison with Kublai Khan. Kublai Khan’s bass extends deeper and lower, but I’d attribute that to its BCD doing the magic within, as it sounds like the bass comes from right beneath you. With that being said, the sheer bombastic quality of Camelot’s bass is more engaging and palpable to my ears. Camelot's bass has a surprising amount of texture and weight, while coming just shy from approaching bloom. Kublai Khan has a better sense of dynamics and the gradation of scale in notes is more noticeable than on Camelot.
I wouldn’t like to call Camelot a bass-head iem, but its bass is truly the star of the show that carries itself relevant. For those who prefer a more reigned-in midrange that strays away from the Harman target, you may find the vocals to be soothing and sublime. I, unfortunately, am of the crowd who prefers a substantial gain in the pinna-region that follows closely to the Harman target - hence, the tuning does not work for me. I do think its treble has a lot of room for improvement. Tuning aside, the lack of extension is evident to my hearing and I believe this may be a deal-breaker to some.
I honestly think Camelot will have its audience, but unfortunately, I do not see myself as being part of that crowd. With that being said, if Nostalgia Audio comes up with a better Camelot that retains its bass quality but with an improved soundstage, imaging, and treble, I will absolutely revisit as I had an enjoyable time with this set.
On a side note, I found their Lancelot cable to be quite excellent at $1200. Absolutely one of the better “value” cables I’ve come across that seeks to compete with the much more expensive cables in the market. Its holographic imaging was immediately noticeable and I can vouch for the Lancelot for those who may be interested.
I hope this review was helpful for those who have been curious!
And please note that this was simply my impression and opinion through the only source I’ve had available. My impression may change on a delta-sigma dac, as it was only listened to through LP6Ti.
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Amadeo Nospherathu
Headphoneus Supremus
Oh, this is a very helpful feedback for me, thank you.Spent the year playing around with different IEM's from Meze, Thieaudio, Campfire, Softears, Shuoer,etc. Some I purchased, some I borrowed but late November I was able to audition the FAudio Mezzo and coming from being a bit underwhelmed with the Dark Sky (single DD) was planning not to really try it. At the end of 2022 it was a great move or find !!!
Eventually I purchased it on Black Friday and since then have been using it (pre burn in and post burn in)
After a lot of sampling of music genres ( Interpol, Kurt Vile, The Smile, Dangerous Mouse, Nipsey Hussle, Big Boi, Sharon Van Etten, Ben Bohmer)
Even though in the past I found that switch set up IEM's mostly were ineffective or did not really do much but add space to the IEM housing .
Found the Mezzo to actually change the sound signature via the switches ,while I was auditioning. First try was not using my gear or music was a bit surprised but not really believing it. So did try again a second time with my music and gear and wow it was quite interesting that you could hear the difference
Once I purchased it, I did a lot of tip rolling, wind up staying with Softears clear tips.
No cable rolling as I think the cable it comes with is very good
After playing around with the switches , stuck with the IEM in position 2 and 3.
Songs like Blue Laces 2 and Kill Jill hit very hard and shows a great handling of the bass without comprising the mids
Guitars on Interpol and Kurt Vile show all their details with great clarity
Female voices as Sharon Van Etten or Angel Olsen are so clear but still coming in with all of the guttural print from each singer
Also tested a track like The Smoke (The Smile) as to capture the initial 30-45 seconds and it brought a wow for me
For me this IEM came out of the blue and impress me to a degree to purchase , as its not low cost
Also found it easy to drive with my Sony Xperia 1 IV. But have defaulted to using it with my iFi Go Blu
All in all, a multi tasker
I have been looking at them for a long time, and if there is an opportunity to get them, I will definitely use it.
CharlyBrown
1000+ Head-Fier
I'm not that deep into the technical details here but from what I've read, technicalities (e.g. detail retrieval, resolution) is derived from tuning. Elevate some specific treble regions and the perception of detail&resolution raises.
Sometimes I think that breaking the sound of an IEM down into its constituent parts puts one at risk of losing the forest for the trees so to speak. Things like technicalities, timbre, tuning are useful as talking points in reviews etc. but at the end of the day they are only the means to the end of an overall engaging listening experience. Fundamentally what I am after is an experience when I am listening to my IEMs-- something that sweeps me off my feet, makes me forget time, and facilitates a greater degree of intimacy with that which I love (my music). For me the qualitiy of this experience is the sole driving force behind the value of an IEM and and, when everything is stripped down, what an IEM really offers me for my money. This is also where an IEM like the Trifecta knocks it out of the park for me in a way that no other IEM has-- and I have heard most of the best. It has a greater than the sum of its parts presentation that I've been trying my best to describe in various posts over the last week or so but I don't think it's an IEM whose soul can be fully revealed through the windows of different individual qualities like the 3 Ts often mentioned. An interesting contrast for me would be something like the Mentor, which retails for $1200 more than the Trifecta. On paper it ticks all the boxes you mention-- tuning, technical, timbre-- but nothing about listeng to this IEM is engaging or inspiring to me. There is no emotional connection-- no soul and nothing about it called to me to put it back in my ears once I took it out. This is just my personal response of course but this is of primary importance for me when it comes to where I am going to put my money. Incidentally I find the Trifecta to be a technical beast on its own terms. I don't personally think comparing it to the IE900 really works in an apples-apples way. IE900 has sharp skalpel like highs, good bass and no mids to speak of...Trifecta bests it in every possible way for me, and it's not close. I'll get more into this when I put together my own review of the Trifecta in the next few days but at the end of the day the question of whether or not Trifecta is worth its asking price boils down to whether or not it gives you an experience that justifies it. The answer for me (and others) is a clear yes-- if for no other reason than that there simply isn't anyting else on the market that even tries to do what it does. As with all things, YMMV.
I'm travelling back home today and will stop by Headphone Bar in Vancouver for the first time since 2019. I'll be able to demo the M6U, Kann Max, and also the Pathfinder IEM. I'm hoping to walk with one of the two DAPs.
Edit: I just heard back from the head of Fat Freq-- they will send their Maestro Mini for tour. It's a great intro to their house sound for folks potentially interested in their IEMs. WOOP.
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I want to discuss a little about an iem that has secretly been gaining some traction both on head-fi and in the Korean community. A reviewer from Headfonia awarded it as “the best IEM I tried this year, period” and this, in tandem with some head-fiers touting it with great praise, seems to have raised eyebrows of many for sheer curiosity's sake. I hesitated to leave an impression as I do not own any iems for an extensive side-by-side comparison. But after receiving a handful of humbling requests for impressions, I was prompted to sit down, listen, and decipher this mysterious iem - because that is what us audiophiles do
Nostalgia Audio Camelot
Chain of gear : LP6Ti -> Stock cable -> Camelot -> Stock black silicone eartip
Camelot is one of those iems where I felt burn-in was absolutely vital. Out of the box, it sounded dark with a rolled-off treble and a noticeable veil hovering over the midrange. The bass was slightly loose bleeding into the vocals and didn’t inspire any emotive listening time (even after cable and tip-rolling through my entire arsenal) until I gave it a good extensive burn-in. Burn-in did solve my biggest issue by lifting up the aforementioned veil and revealing a clearer midrange with a more articulate treble response. The bass also tightened up and became better controlled into its own compartment.
Its general signature is of a L-shape where the bass takes the center stage and the vocals and treble take half-a-step back. It is a slightly darker signature, but the details, clarity, and resolution are there that you wouldn’t necessarily find it lacking or veiled during critical listening sessions. It reminds me of the Xe6 a little where the upper-mid range is pulled back in comparison to the harman target. If you find the Harman target too bright or forward, this should work well for you.
Soundstage leans closer to disappointment, as my $1k Ov800 (my favorite iem in the “budget category”
Its imaging and separation are evenly in line with its mediocre soundstage. Instruments are well separated with acceptable imaging, but I recall Mest MKii to have a more convincing presentation to spatially delineate instruments within its relatively closed-in bubble. With that being said, it has great cohesion to allow all parts of the frequency to flow smoothly from one to another.
Treble is its biggest shortcoming as this is one of the weaker EST implementations I’ve come across irregardless of price-range. The upper harmonics comes off a bit muted with a noticeable roll-off in the upper treble. Its treble lacks a bit of note weight that I find it being less ethereal and lean closer to wispiness, which I can foresee being a deal-breaker to some. If you found the Legend Evo too dark, it would be difficult for me to recommend Camelot with confidence.
Fantastic bass reproduction. This is what you’re in for if you’re thinking of owning a set yourself. The very first time I heard Camelot, I was taken back by how visceral its bass was with its textured oomph that I found so pleasantly addicting. Give it a good burn-in, let the drivers settle, and it will rattle your brain to the point of satisfaction. It does not have the abyssal depth of EVO, the incredible bass-air of Trifecta, or a woofer-like physicality of Xe6 - but this is a competent bass that I believe would satisfy the ears of many.
At the $2600 price range, Kublai Khan is its direct competitor - so logically, I took a trip to a local audio-store a few days ago to do a direct A/B comparison with the Camelot to see how it compares. After a forty-minute subway ride, imagine the shock on my face as I reached into my pocket to discover that I forgot to bring my DAP with me…
Thus, as an apology, my comparison review will be based on sheer memory, which is subject to being fallible due to the inconsistency of human hearing and memory. With that being said, I was able to hear the Kublai Khan just several hours ago so its sound is still quite fresh in my mind.
From memory, Kublai Khan has a more enveloping stage that expands in all directions with a more holographic presentation. Kublai Khan is more subbass oriented with a slightly thinner note-weight, and has better detail retrieval with more sparkly and extended treble. Camelot is comparatively darker with a noticeable roll-off in the upper spectrum of frequency. There isn’t much air in it and I can imagine it’ll come across a tad muted in direct comparison with Kublai Khan. Kublai Khan’s bass extends deeper and lower, but I’d attribute that to its BCD doing the magic within, as it sounds like the bass comes from right beneath you. With that being said, the sheer bombastic quality of Camelot’s bass is more engaging and palpable to my ears. Camelot's bass has a surprising amount of texture and weight, while coming just shy from approaching bloom. Kublai Khan has a better sense of dynamics and the gradation of scale in notes is more noticeable than on Camelot.
I wouldn’t like to call Camelot a bass-head iem, but its bass is truly the star of the show that carries itself relevant. For those who prefer a more reigned-in midrange that strays away from the Harman target, you may find the vocals to be soothing and sublime. I, unfortunately, am of the crowd who prefers a substantial gain in the pinna-region that follows closely to the Harman target - hence, the tuning does not work for me. I do think its treble has a lot of room for improvement. Tuning aside, the lack of extension is evident to my hearing and I believe this may be a deal-breaker to some.
I honestly think Camelot will have its audience, but unfortunately, I do not see myself as being part of that crowd. With that being said, if Nostalgia Audio comes up with a better Camelot that retains its bass quality but with an improved soundstage, imaging, and treble, I will absolutely revisit as I had an enjoyable time with this set.
On a side note, I found their Lancelot cable to be quite excellent at $1200. Absolutely one of the better “value” cables I’ve come across that seeks to compete with the much more expensive cables in the market. Its holographic imaging was immediately noticeable and I can vouch for the Lancelot for those who may be interested.
I hope this review was helpful for those who have been curious!
And please note that this was simply my impression and opinion through the only source I’ve had available. My impression may change on a delta-sigma dac, as it was only listened to through LP6Ti.
Hmm, makes me wonder if something is off with a pair of Camelot you received since to my ears I wouldn't call it L-shaped (bass is extended, but not really boosted). At the same time, since our measurements are not too far off, maybe we just hear it differently? Though, I think for some people the perception of smoother treble can emphasize the focus on lower frequencies. I do agree, treble extension (upper treble) is not exactly stellar, though mid-treble is decent and has natural clarity, especially when you switch to Lancelot cable which IMHO is a must have pair up with Camelot over its 'darker' stock cable.
I have not heard the Mini but I can’t help but feel them not sending an SE also is a missed opportunity for them to get some more exposure/feedback on their models.
Ben from FF is an awesome guy. You can tell they’re a bit rough around the edges from a business perspective as far as how smooth things seem to be going but he’s definitely trying his hardest, I’d be lying if I said this wasn’t part of my decision to get a custom from them.
Gave myself another short MSE session this morning to see if I had any buyers remorse after placing an order last night, definitely not. Looking forward to using them in rotation with my other EDCs.
I actually met the whole Fat Freq team in the elevator on my first night in SoCal. Thanks for your encouragement I just messaged Ben again encouraging to send along a Maestro SE also for just the reasons you say. Cheers.
drftr
Headphoneus Supremus
I think that is certainly partly true, but IEMs with the exact same tuning can still show very different technicalities.
drftr
Loudspeakers typically have several drivers to cover a wide frequency range.
How do single-driver headphones and IEMs accomplish that?
How do single-driver headphones and IEMs accomplish that?
I actually hesitated if I should call it "L"-shape as it is quite balanced across the board (minus the very subtle upper-extension). I do think it's bombastic bass gave me the impression to lean closer to a "L" shape than neutral, as I found it to take the center-stage over the rest of frequency.Hmm, makes me wonder if something is off with a pair of Camelot you received since to my ears I wouldn't call it L-shaped (bass is extended, but not really boosted). At the same time, since our measurements are not too far off, maybe we just hear it differently? Though, I think for some people the perception of smoother treble can emphasize the focus on lower frequencies. I do agree, treble extension (upper treble) is not exactly stellar, though mid-treble is decent and has natural clarity, especially when you switch to Lancelot cable which IMHO is a must have pair up with Camelot over its 'darker' stock cable.
drftr
Headphoneus Supremus
Typically by using a driver that although optimized is under great pressure at its extremes. Like, you can have a single dynamic driver that is very good to excellent for everything for, say, 80% of the frequency range, but with serious limitations for the very lowest 10% of bass and the very highest 10% of treble. You often see that they don't offer the deepest sub bass and that treble can be either very rolled off or become spicy. Since it's only one driver it's very hard to optimize on each and every part of the FR so the manufacturer has to compromize. An example would be using extremely strong and rigid material to still keep that lowest sub bass punchy, but that very same material won't give you a soft and smooth treble as you'd need softer material for that. But using that softer material for the bass section may make it wooly.
Just some examples - hope it helps a little.
drftr
Loudspeakers have to move much more air.
Still the problem to solve is similar, and why we have multi driver IEMs. What I always wonder about is why Over Ear Headphones have not explored multi drivers.
For sharts and giggles, and in the interests of science and community I invite everyone to take this test and share their results:
https://www.16personalities.com/personality-types#analysts
https://www.16personalities.com/personality-types#analysts
drftr
Headphoneus Supremus
Crashed my computer AND the power supply!
Very interesting Jeff! Advocate, apparently... "Advocates are quiet visionaries, often serving as inspiring and tireless idealists." I'll send that in for on my tombstone!
drftr
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