The Watercooler -- Impressions, philosophical discussion and general banter. Index on first page. All welcome.
Sep 13, 2022 at 9:38 PM Post #35,011 of 91,358
This topic comes up quite often and it is interesting to me. Part of me thinks it's the changes in our economy, inflation, etc...another part of me is more simple. There is a demand for those who can push the envelope of diminishing returns. I frankly, do not have that luxury. The Indigos were a true test of what I could potentially get in comparison to the Solaris 2020 which btw is no slouch either. Campfire doesn't nearly get as much credit for their stuff as other brands but c'est la vie. I'm going to keep letting this burn in. On orchestral and instrumental genres, Indigo's technical prowess shine but again, not that much different from the Solaris which is my current baseline and the IEM that gives me the most sonic pleasure based on my preferences. I managed to snag them for a killer price $860 CAD which is like what? $650 USD? The other was the Phonix, which is still out of reach unless I manage to snag a killer deal in the second hand market.
I have Indigo/Solaris SE and I do agree Indigo is better in terms of texture and fullness. It’s a bit warmer with more overall bass, especially mid bass. However, SE’s soundstage is near headphone level and while I have not heard Traillii, Jewel or other TOTL IEM’s other than EXT, I‘d surmise Solaris has a most holographic soundstage that’s difficult to beat. Once you’ve had more time with Indigo, try listening to your Solaris 2020 for a few days exclusively, then listen to Indigo. That’s when I heard and appreciated the differences more so than quick swapping of the IEMs. Most importantly, enjoy the journey and the music which is sometimes easier said than done in this hobby. :)
 
Sep 13, 2022 at 9:38 PM Post #35,012 of 91,358
Amadeo, they felt to sell the Traillii with the Orpheus cable was too expensive. Not their own pricing.
I understand what you mean and respect their approach. Because I also think that a duet with Orphy would cost too much.

My reply is just a small joke in the style of yellow press headlines (if there was a yellow press about audio).
 
Sep 13, 2022 at 9:47 PM Post #35,013 of 91,358
Sep 13, 2022 at 10:00 PM Post #35,014 of 91,358
I have Indigo/Solaris SE and I do agree Indigo is better in terms of texture and fullness. It’s a bit warmer with more overall bass, especially mid bass. However, SE’s soundstage is near headphone level and while I have not heard Traillii, Jewel or other TOTL IEM’s other than EXT, I‘d surmise Solaris has a most holographic soundstage that’s difficult to beat. Once you’ve had more time with Indigo, try listening to your Solaris 2020 for a few days exclusively, then listen to Indigo. That’s when I heard and appreciated the differences more so than quick swapping of the IEMs. Most importantly, enjoy the journey and the music which is sometimes easier said than done in this hobby. :)

Agree. We've got similar taste given the IEMs we have in possession. Will try that out for sure. My brain was so used to the Solaris for so many months so when I listened to Indigo out of the box, it was like..... what? really? But I'm starting to adjust or the Indigo's are just starting to break in so they're sounding much much better now.
 
Sep 13, 2022 at 11:24 PM Post #35,015 of 91,358
More or less told him that we need a catalog of his cables so we know names.
Doctor stated himself that he has about three to four totl cables in his lineup that do different things. I've bombarded him with so many questions and I commend him for having been patient with me
I basically got back "I have 3 cables and would suggest this one" which resulted in more questions than anticipated. So yeah, I think it would help the community and his time management if detailed descriptions and reviews would be available. Although part of the fun is the communication.

Was reluctant to try UTSW5 since I dont want to lose sound quality over convenience unless it is something imperceptible for me. Saw earlier post from @drftr that it compromise SQ too much.
That can't be true as I have never ever heard them. I always was very interested in acquiring, but after deciding I will keep my Sony XM4 for actual travelling while using my U18t in my room only I haven't followed up demoing them.

Speaking of which, I'm on my way to pick up my new love for our first date!

drftr
 
Sep 14, 2022 at 12:40 AM Post #35,016 of 91,358
I basically got back "I have 3 cables and would suggest this one" which resulted in more questions than anticipated. So yeah, I think it would help the community and his time management if detailed descriptions and reviews would be available. Although part of the fun is the communication.


That can't be true as I have never ever heard them. I always was very interested in acquiring, but after deciding I will keep my Sony XM4 for actual travelling while using my U18t in my room only I haven't followed up demoing them.

Speaking of which, I'm on my way to pick up my new love for our first date!

drftr
BTR5 part added!
That addition made the difference for me to be honest, so tnx again. I'll be waiting for the next gen UTWS as it seems the trade-off in sound quality is still quite a bit larger than I willing to accept at this moment. Pretty sure we'll get there with FiiO!

drftr

That's what I got this impression from (Dec 2021 thread), now upon closer look, you probably were talking about BTR5.
 
Sep 14, 2022 at 1:48 AM Post #35,017 of 91,358
My work solution when I need to cut the cord. It's continuing to grow on me like an annoying fungus. I didn't want to like it and actually sell it for another IEM but it's proving to move me more. Call it burn in or brain burn in but whatever it is, I'll continue to give them more hours before I make a call. I did have Supermoon and maybe a few 64 Audio IEMs in mind. To be continued...

I don't lose much of any of the musicality with them hooked to the UTSW5 for convenience. :) What I find intriguing is that if you look close enough, you can actually see through to the bone conduction driver.

20220913_150016.jpg
I use those too, with the Nio most of the time. Excellent solution for doing chores etc.
 
Sep 14, 2022 at 2:09 AM Post #35,018 of 91,358
Hey everyone, I wanted to share my full Elysian Diva review:

https://headphones.com/community/reviews-learning-and-news/elysian-diva-review

I find it to be pretty damn impressive. It's got like...the whole package, from accessories to tuning flexibility and to great sound. I'm really hoping Lee is able to step up production on the Diva because it's a shame that more ears haven't been able to get on it yet.

diva14.jpg
 
Sep 14, 2022 at 3:22 AM Post #35,019 of 91,358
Hey everyone, I wanted to share my full Elysian Diva review:

https://headphones.com/community/reviews-learning-and-news/elysian-diva-review

I find it to be pretty damn impressive. It's got like...the whole package, from accessories to tuning flexibility and to great sound. I'm really hoping Lee is able to step up production on the Diva because it's a shame that more ears haven't been able to get on it yet.

diva14.jpg
Is the faceplate fixed? haha I recalled it being blue in colour
 
Sep 14, 2022 at 4:38 AM Post #35,021 of 91,358
Even using LDAC sees a drop in quality compared to wired, and the FiiOs don't support LDAC. Ultimately wireless is perfect for casual listening. If you have high end wired IEMs and want to make the most of what makes them cost so much, best to use them as intended: wired to a high quality source with high quality source files.
 
Sep 14, 2022 at 5:53 AM Post #35,023 of 91,358
Dear Friends, below you will find my impressions of the Orpheus vs the Mighty Centurion. Enjoy!

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I got the chance to borrow the Centurion from my friend @efftee - thanks bud! I’ve always wanted to hear this beast. After reading a lot, it seemed the only cable that approached - or matched - the micro details and abilities of the Orpheus, albeit with a different tuning. After two intensive days of non stop listening I am ready to share my thoughts. All testing was done with my LP6 Ti AE and N8ii with the Jewel.


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Cosmetically they are about as far apart as possible. The Orphy is pure batman, black and dark blue with that badass shielding too. It’s a lot thicker, heavier, and more cumbersome. The Cent is the same size as Leonidas Octa, or for that matter any 8 wire octa cable with a nice soft pliable feel. It’s way lighter, more flexible and easier to move around. No surprises there. One gripe I have with the Cent is those excessively thick ear hooks. When did EA start using this ultra thick stuff? That being said, it holds the cable nicely around your ears, but I find it really annoying. Also EA’s QC needs work, the logo on one of the 2 pin connectors doesn’t face out like it should - ridiculous for a $4000 cable. Besides that the rest of the cable is supple and lovely.

I will be the first to say that I prefer the Orpheus look by a large margin. I know, weird, but I prefer the understated and less is more approach to design. Black and black is always my favorite color combo, the bling look of all the Asian cable makers is always a bit too much for me, but that’s just me. Most will prefer the Cent I’m sure.

Then the sound. The first moment I plugged in the Cent I was surprised that the differences between the two of them aren’t as far apart as I had imagined. Having owned the Code 51 for a while I can say that the Cent is definitely the same blood line, but mixing in some of the Horus X type of high end and a whole step up in just about everything. It’s very dynamic and very powerful sounding, something I was not expecting. I had in my mind some kind of delicate sound, for whatever reason, and instead I was greeted with a thunderous approach to my music library. It’s fast, articulate, and thick enough to satisfy most. The bass quantity is very neutral but there is tons of rumble, impact, texture and control. The bass really has this tight spanky feeling to it, and growls when called for. Orphy is more mid bass oriented, Cent is even all the way down, with less quantity. Orpheus bass is killer, fast and fat, very analog and with tons of control. It has more control perhaps by a hair, it’s just so well focused and presented. I think for my preferences the Orphy has the Cent beat here, but I do like a bit more thump.


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Cent mids are more revealing and brighter than Orphy, and some of the glorious weight and oomph of the Orphy is lost in the process. Lower mids are far more neutral on Cent, while the Orpheus famous lower mid weight is there in spades. Micro details in the mids are very similar. While the Cent goes for pure resolution, the Orpheus is more musical here, withtout sacrificing any resolution. The Cent mids are again more neutral, also in placement, while the Orphy has them more forward, more romantic, while also being crystal clear. The upper mids are more revealing and more prominent on the Cent which for the Jewel isn’t doing it any favors in my book, but some may prefer the more revealing and heightened energy here with the Jewel. YMMV, they both have great mids in slightly different ways. Orpheus mids have the ultra spacious sound, which for a thick cable never ceases to amaze me. There is a sense of magic that the Orpheus exhibits here that, in my opinion, the Cent doesn’t. It has resolution in spades, but the magic just isn’t there, especially for vocals and guitars. It makes up for it is clear bell like tones, but less musical and more analytical. The Vent isn’t vreajingly analytical, this is simply by comparison. Winner for me goes to Orpheus again here.

The biggest difference is in the way the higher registers are portrayed, and where I might prefer the Cent. While the Orphy has a rolled off super analog feel to the treble, the Cent goes all the way up uninhibited. There is more air, more sparkle. There is more bite up top too - almost to a fault for my tastes. While the upper end is glorious on the Cent, it can be somewhat overbearing with the detailed nature of the Jewel. I could also be hearing the lower treble, upper mid peak that I spoke about before, influencing my feelings about the treble. Maybe. I will say that I do prefer the air and space that the Cent gives up, the wispy wondrous sparkles of floating gold, but I would personally take a bit of the bite out and let it be just airy. For those that prefer an energetic top end, the Cent may be one of the best I’ve heard. The Orpheus top end isn’t bad at all, it’s just more analog and sometimes feels rolled off more than it needs to be, resulting in a feeling that every IEM I pair it with has identical top end. But with the Jewel I love the Orphy top end on the right source. I will give this one to the Centurion. That effortless high end is breathtaking really, I will give EA that much for sure.


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Stage wise they are very similar, large large large. The Cent will feel bigger because of the extra air up top, more vertical for sure, but the mid range stage size is nearly identical to me. They will both leave no-one wanting here. The Orpheus is thicker but has a very wide open mid range, with the slightly smaller vertical feeling. The Cent is again, more neutral and will therefore feel bigger when I don’t think it actually is. This one is closer to a tie, but I will give it to the Centurion again here.


For those keeping track the score is 2/2.


Pairing plays a lot into my impressions. For example, with Jewel and N8ii I prefer the Orpheus hands down. The N8ii can lean on the cold side, and it has plenty of sparkle already. I got a bit of a glass shards feeling with the Cent, N8ii and Jewel on some of my bright modern mastered tracks, and the Orpheus seems a better match there, adding a bit of warmth and fuller bodied forward mids. Also, some extra kick and energy in the mid bass gets tracks moving on the more neutral N8ii. With the LP6 it’s much closer. The LP6 has its own rolled off treble, so it can be “too much of a good thing” added together with the Orpheus. Only on certain tracks I yearn for a bit more air, not always, but it does come. Also the LP6 has a featured lower mids/ mid bass and this again can be overdone as the Orpheus has the same. The LP6 is already warm, so we’re kind of tripling down here with the warm, mid bass and rolled off highs. This is actually the main reason I wanted to hear the Cent, to see if it would address this situation. So does it? Kinda. Yes the Cent has more air, and less lower mids and mid bass, but it’s not so simple. On some tracks I prefer the Cent, but largely I still prefer the more romantic and analog presentation of the Orpheus. Vocal are to die for with this combo. Guitars and instruments are portrayed very lifelike, instead of the more Hi-Fi sounding Centurion. Then there is the magic quality of the Orpheus that I still cannot quite describe. It’s there, it’s amazing, not sure what else to say there. If you have the opportunity to hear it for yourself, please do. Especially the mids, best I’ve ever heard paired with the Jewel. The way the mids are forward and yet super open and spread out is something that never ceases to amaze me each time.


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So which do I prefer? I personally will be sticking with my Orpheus. That weight, that power, that control, mixed with the analog warmth and beauty. I love it. Part of that decision is influenced heavily by the fact that I already own it. Given the chance to choose other or the other from the get-go, the decision becomes harder. I am more of an analog guy, that also tilts my perspective. And I will be honest and say that I prefer the PW look, and while cosmetics shouldn’t be a big part of your sonic decision making, I have a hard time with the idea of being about town with a shiny cable that looks more like jewelry than a cable. The PW oozes R&D to me, the costs while atrocious, show they spent a lot of time developing the sound, and less trying to make it beautiful. Just my $.02m, I imagine that many will disagree with me there.



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So there you have it, the battle of two of the most expensive cables known to man. Two days of constant jamming out to every test track on AB loops for hours, plus all my albums I felt in the moment to just get lost in the music. How do I feel? Honestly, I wish there was a cable that was somewhere in the middle of the two, no surprises there. I always wants a little of this one, a little of that one, it’s impossible to find the perfect anything. If there was an Orpheus style analog sound, with a bit more air up top and slightly less mid bass heavy leanings that didn’t lose the Orphy magic I would be sold. Or a Centurion that had less bit up top, and more bass, with a slightly more analog feel. Two cables that come to mind for the combo these two could be the Chiron, and the First Times Shielding. I did have a FT but I never felt it quite encapsulated that magic, perhaps the shielding versions carries more of that. The Centurion is an amazing cable, and I am certainly happy to have heard it, and I did prefer it sometimes. Your tastes/preferences, + YMMV as always.

For anyone looking for a more revealing, brighter, ultra micro-detailed flagship and has money to burn, the Centurion is the one to get. If you’re looking for a more musical, mid featured sound, with crazy good bass then the Orpheus is what you should get. Either way, they’re both amazing.

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Fantastic review, thank you. After I had a momentary loss of my senses and bought the Orphy I thought I’d be done with cables, but we know how that goes. Loving the Orphy I’ve come to be a bit curious of a couple of other cables that could be truly complimentary, this being one with a few other, along with @doctorjuggles and his highly regarded offerings. Not many comprehensive insights amongst the cable offerings though, so very helpful.

I’ve come to the conclusion that while I’m extremely excited about upcoming CanJam, the event could literally be twice as long and I’d still have no hope at all of demoing all the things I’m interested in hearing, and I’m literally trying to be proactive with a written out target checklist. First world problems with a lot of whimsy and fun attached, for sure.
 
Sep 14, 2022 at 6:00 AM Post #35,024 of 91,358
Here is what we need. We need a catalog of @doctorjuggles cables with names, strengths and weaknesses and IEM pairings like a restaurant with its wines and the brand name cable it is most like. If we had that, we would be able to select cables much better. Maybe a water cooler cable tour for @doctorjuggles. I think this would help him and help us.

edited as note to Justin: It looks like there is demand for this tour. If you are interested in having us do it, send me a PM and I will volunteer to organize it.
Yes, please! I’d love something like this, if someone is keeping score of interested parties. Knowing of such interest can sometimes be the needed catalyst for such things to suddenly materialize. It’s like Disney princess magic, you gotta manifest it in your dreams, sing a catchy song out loud and them fairies or talking crickets show up to help make it happen.
 
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Sep 14, 2022 at 6:02 AM Post #35,025 of 91,358
Treated my IE600 with the @EffectAudio Cadmus and my RSV with the Eros S from their latest signature series. RSV shows effective improvements with better dynamics. Heck after listening to it with the Eros S the stock cable feels bland hehe. I so wanted to change the cable of my IE600 ever since the day I got it(didn't like it at all). IE600 has minor improvements like bass feels a little tighter and the high-frequency notes are a bit smoother. But after listening to these minor changes, i can not go back to the stock cable at all hehe. Overall a worthy upgrade for me for both the IEMs.
IE600+Cadmus.jpg

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On a different note, I lost my camera's memory stick with boatloads of images and video backup. My IE600 video review went with it, now will have to shoot it again entirely :frowning2: This gave me learning to back up my videos and photos after every shoot, a hard way to learn this though.
 

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