THE WATERCOOLER HEADPHONE EDITION – Headphones, Amps, DACs, and desktop/home audio related – a freewheeling discussion of gear, impressions, music, and musings.

[number1sixerfan]

I've heard every Audeze with the exception of the LCD-R and my favourite Audeze is actually the LCD-24. It needs some work with tubes and a bit of EQ but it has a speaker like presentation with an insane amount of air, no other planar I have heard has a soundstage like this, the depth this headphone can produce is basically 009 levels good. I know it's a limited edition headphone but if you get the chance to hear or buy one, it's definitely worth it.

I hope you get to hear the LCD-R one day. To me it's the greatest thing Audeze has ever done (although I haven't heard the LCD-4). It had a major bass deficiency, which is why I ultimately sold it and probably didn't get the love it deserved, but it was amazing in every other regard.

Sounds like the LCD-24 may be another very interesting limited edition to check out, will keep an eye out!

 

[Death_Block]

With the exception of the HE1 and Aperio, you listened to some of the worst amp pairing for those other headphones lol.

If you want warmth and note weight I suggest you look into the Stax 007 MK1. I use the iFi Phantom as a tube pre to the Carbon CC with the 007 and the sound is endgame for me. Because Estats are so revealing, your chain matters a lot more which is a positive and a negative I guess. Certain headphones will just sound trash with certain amps like the CRBN and Z10.

CBRN2 brings a lot more oomph to the party I believe?

 

[TheAbyss2022]

CBRN2 brings a lot more oomph to the party I believe?

It does but it compromises on too many things for the price so for £6k its definitely not worth it. If it was like £2K I would happily recommend it lol.

 

[genefruit]

It does but it compromises on too many things for the price so for £6k its definitely not worth it. If it was like £2K I would happily recommend it lol.

I find the impact and perception of price as an interesting caveat that doesn't always get fully revealed when discussing equipment. I try to be cognizant of the price but I try to keep it independent from whether I like/prefer an item. How do others factor in price? Does price impact whether you like/prefer/recommend an item?

 

[number1sixerfan]

I find the impact and perception of price as an interesting caveat that doesn't always get fully revealed when discussing equipment. I try to be cognizant of the price but I try to keep it independent from whether I like/prefer an item. How do others factor in price? Does price impact whether you like/prefer/recommend an item?

Very interesting prompt. Price is a huge factor in my overall evaluation, as the value a product drives is a priority factor for me in an overall product satisfaction. Generally speaking, as long as gear feels like it's within a general realm of reason of its cost, no worries. If it doesn't perform closely to other gear positioned similarly market wise for its cost, minus a few points. If it punches above, plus quite a few points.

Ultimately though, performance is all that matters and I'll slate any gear tier wise where it belongs, but with asterisks around its price to performance ratio.

 

[Ike1985]

Sounds like Estat's aren't for me, ribbons it is. I love my dense note weight. Ribbons are also extremely fast so you aren't giving up much in the way of speed.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Sounds like Estat's aren't for me, ribbons it is. I love my dense note weight. Ribbons are also extremely fast so you aren't giving up much in the way of speed.

I don't see any inherent difference in timbre and density between ribbons and stats.. as always, it totally depends on the model and chain. Ribbons and stats are extremely similar overall in what they excel at best.

 

[tunes]

If you are ever in the US, hit me up, you are welcome to come listen to my setup as long as you want since we both have Envy AE and Immanis and TM's, the DAC would be really the only difference. Would give you a chance to hear the MPD8, I blind bought mine and would never sell it. Best way I would describe MPD-8:

High resolution
Excellent decay
Equal weighting across the FR but somehow simultaneously great bass
Dense thick weight (lends to extreme decay)
Jet black background
Good dynamics

If you could get an A1C10 at the same price as the Envy AE which overall would be the top choice to pair with Immanis and Susvara OG?

 

[Ike1985]

I don't see any inherent difference in timbre and density between ribbons and stats.. as always, it totally depends on the model and chain. Ribbons and stats are extremely similar overall in what they excel at best.

yea but isn't it the case you can't tube roll as much with estats due to the hardware limitations? I can tune the Immanis to be totally different than it was before I swapped tubes. I was going to sell Immanis, I hated it, after roling a bunch its my favorite headphone of all time and endgame.

@tunes I am a roller, I believe the best outcome is perfect synergy for you. AIC10 is not a tube rollers amp so I dont want it. Ever since my experience with ALO CDM I will always go for tube rolling over anything else because the level of difference you can make is huge. Also out of the gate (with stock tubes) I was not very impressed with Envy AE, however, after swapping tubes it sounds better than any tube amp I've ever heard. If it were possibly I'd order Envy AE with no tubes.

 

[number1sixerfan]

yea but isn't it the case you can't tube roll as much with estats due to the hardware limitations? I can tune the Immanis to be totally different than it was before I swapped tubes. I was going to sell Immanis, I hated it, after roling a bunch its my favorite headphone of all time and endgame.

You can tube roll with either, but I think what you may be referring to is that several popular estat amps (BHSE, T2) have less differences when tube swapping than some other dynamic amps. In some amps you can realize larger differences and you can still fine tune in various ways like you can do any other chain. That said, I think the obvious challenge with stats is having to have an entirely different/dedicated amp, which is an extra expense that's hard to swallow if you don't have multiple stats you'd like to own. With Raal ribbons, you can use anything with the transformers that also powers dynamics, planars, etc.

But you can achieve similar tonal density with stats as with ribbons. All of this said, to be very honest. If you have the Immanis, I don't think you really need* to explore stats or anything else unless you want* to.

 

[TheAbyss2022]

You can tube roll with either, but I think what you may be referring to is that several popular estat amps (BHSE, T2) have less differences when tube swapping than some other dynamic amps. In some amps you can realize larger differences and you can still fine tune in various ways like you can do any other chain. That said, I think the obvious challenge with stats is having to have an entirely different/dedicated amp, which is an extra expense that's hard to swallow if you don't have multiple stats you'd like to own. With Raal ribbons, you can use anything with the transformers that also powers dynamics, planars, etc.

But you can achieve similar tonal density with stats as with ribbons. All of this said, to be very honest. If you have the Immanis, I don't think you really need* to explore stats or anything else unless you want* to.

Megatron would probably be the best amp for tube rolling with estats. Have you tried tube rolling with your T2?

I wonder if Sennheiser, Hifiman or Warwick Acoustics will dabble in the ribbon market. The holy trinity (HE1, Shang Sr, Aperio) are all estats for a reason but perhaps we could see a different offering especially from Sennheiser.

 

[Ike1985]

You can tube roll with either, but I think what you may be referring to is that several popular estat amps (BHSE, T2) have less differences when tube swapping than some other dynamic amps. In some amps you can realize larger differences and you can still fine tune in various ways like you can do any other chain. That said, I think the obvious challenge with stats is having to have an entirely different/dedicated amp, which is an extra expense that's hard to swallow if you don't have multiple stats you'd like to own. With Raal ribbons, you can use anything with the transformers that also powers dynamics, planars, etc.

But you can achieve similar tonal density with stats as with ribbons. All of this said, to be very honest. If you have the Immanis, I don't think you really need* to explore stats or anything else unless you want* to.

Yea zero interest in estats due to Immanis.

Megatron would probably be the best amp for tube rolling with estats. Have you tried tube rolling with your T2?

I wonder if Sennheiser, Hifiman or Warwick Acoustics will dabble in the ribbon market. The holy trinity (HE1, Shang Sr, Aperio) are all estats for a reason but perhaps we could see a different offering especially from Sennheiser.

I hope so, I firmly believe ribbons should be being made by many other companies, I think they are stupid fast, top tier resolution and technicalities.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Megatron would probably be the best amp for tube rolling with estats. Have you tried tube rolling with your T2?

I'm hearing this consistently. Sounds like there's a bit more impact with tube rolling with it. I won't be changing my amp at any point, but the Megatron looks very interesting and would be top of list if I were in need of an amp.

With my T2 and my BHSE, I've swapped the EL34s with NOS Jan Philips that are really incredible, but only make a marginal difference. I got a good deal on them and wouldn't have paid more than what I did. But the difference is enjoyable and even Kerry at Eksonic liked them as well (slightly more lush, full bodied, good bass while still keeping detail in tact). But nothing groundbreaking tbh, still somewhat subtle overall.

 

[TheAbyss2022]

I'm hearing this consistently. Sounds like there's a bit more impact with tube rolling with it. I won't be changing my amp at any point, but the Megatron looks very interesting and would be top of list if I were in need of an amp.

With my T2 and my BHSE, I've swapped the EL34s with NOS Jan Philips that are really incredible, but only make a marginal difference. I got a good deal on them and wouldn't have paid more than what I did. But the difference is enjoyable and even Kerry at Eksonic liked them as well (slightly more lush, full bodied, good bass while still keeping detail in tact). But nothing groundbreaking tbh, still somewhat subtle overall.

Perhaps the input tubes will be a big difference. I would highly recommend a pair of Sylvania's to give you a thicker, bassier and more holographic sound.

 

[Frankie D]

If you could get an A1C10 at the same price as the Envy AE which overall would be the top choice to pair with Immanis and Susvara OG?

I am hoping to have an Envy AE in the somewhat near future and will do that comparison.

By the way, you can tube roll both of them. The advantage with the Riv is you only have to change one tube.