THE WATERCOOLER HEADPHONE EDITION – Headphones, Amps, DACs, and desktop/home audio related – a freewheeling discussion of gear, impressions, music, and musings.

[fidgeraldo]

any under the radar options come to mind?

I don't know about Woo you got, and how is that even possible? But you can get Cayin HA-6A for $2.5 in the US, perhaps for even less.
And I can say nothing but...I love that amp! The sound and possibilities for tube rolling are sublime.
Also, I can confirm that MDR Z1R paired with SPL Phonitor XE also sounds... marvellous!

Cheers!

 

[goldwerger]

hello headphone 'coolers! I've been primarily an iem guy the past few years but headphones have been pulling me back in. I have a Woo Audio WA6-SE and it's served me well. Great with a wide range of cans but at times sounds too clean and solid-state, so I've been thinking of going the otl route. My high impedance headphones are the Audio-Technica ATH-ADX5000, Verite Open, and 6xx. Atrium Closed on my radar as well if I don't default to the more portable MDR-Z1R. It seems like there's a gap in terms of pricing when researching options, either sub-1k staples like the Bottlehead Crack, or big money picks like the ZMF Decware. any under the radar options come to mind? bonus points if they can make use of some rectifiers I've collected for the Woo. Appreciate any input

Welcome “back”!

I have two ideas of you in the middle 2k range:

1. Feliks Euforia - find a used older version (current new is 3k, but prior versions used will be 1.5-2k) - fantastic amp with sweet liquid sound. Downside is no tube rectification you wanted
2. Glenn OTL - rare and get snatched fast, but they used units come up for sale and if you’re determined it’s a doable purchase (also around 1.5-2k) - another fantastic amp with a very powerful and dynamic presentation (I have one). Most versions are tube rectified and yours would fit; few aren’t.

 

[AudioDuck]

any under the radar options come to mind? bonus points if they can make use of some rectifiers I've collected for the Woo. Appreciate any input

I presume Woo’s own WA2 is very much “on your radar”?

I ask because while the initial purchase will run about $900-1,000 used or $1,500 new, you can burn through another $400-500 or more for great power tubes, and $400-800 for 12A-7 input tubes (with adapters). With those rolled in, the WA2 becomes a very different beast.

Hence the cost of great tubes may need to factor into your planning, unless you have some Tung-Sol 5998s, Western Electric 421s, and Telefunken G73-Rs just “laying around”…

 

[SolarCetacean]

I’ve always been surprised that combo dynamic/electrostatic amps aren’t more popular.

Most enthusiasts who have electrostatic headphones also have dynamic headphones, and offering an ‘all in one box’ solution seems like it would be very appealing.

In addition to the new RSA unit I know the IFi iCAN Phantom does it (even if it uses the goofy as heck SD card to set bias voltage gimmick) and there’s the Audiovalve Solaris which looks super cool, but I think I’d read something about the company going out of business.

Add the Linear Tube Audio Z10e to the list of combo dynamic/electrostatic amps. There aren't many out there.

One reason they aren't common is because they're basically two entirely separate amps in one box. The requirements for driving estat headphones and regular headphones are very different to the point that you can't share many components between them if you want to use direct drive. It's not like adding an XLR jack to the amp. You need the bias supply for the 580VDC bias voltage (or another bias voltage if the headphones require something other than Stax Pro Bias). Then, because the signal voltages for estat headphones are in the realm of >100 V RMS, instead of <5V RMS for most regular headphones, you need a lot of gain to convert the input signal into one capable to driving estats. Then you need the high-voltage power supplies for powering the estat portion. That adds more components and cost. A combo amp will usually be more expensive than two dedicated amps of similar quality. And if someone is paying that much for a combo amp, they probably aren't content with mediocrity, they want an endgame-worthy solution. Hence the stratospheric prices of most of these all-in-one units ($7K for the Z10e and $12.5K for the B-21).

The Phantom IIRC takes the "easy way" by using output transformers (and not direct drive). They route the regular headphone output into a set of transformers which convert the low-voltage regular headphone signal into the high-voltage electrostatic headphone signal. That method requires good transformers to avoid issues with core saturation in the bass region and other transformer nonlinearities, and good audio transformers aren't cheap or small. The DIY transformer solutions I've seen that use high-quality Lundahl transformers are physically larger than the Phantom and still require a separate amp.

Finally, and possibly most importantly, the estat market is miniscule. Like audiophile headphones are already a niche in the personal audio market, and electrostatics are a tiny niche within that niche; a drop in the pond in the ocean. The addressable market for a combo estat amp is so tiny that it's generally not worth pursuing, especially when there is well-established competition within that tiny market (Stax themselves and a few commercial designs like the BHSE).

 

[gammi]

I’ve always been surprised that combo dynamic/electrostatic amps aren’t more popular.

Most enthusiasts who have electrostatic headphones also have dynamic headphones, and offering an ‘all in one box’ solution seems like it would be very appealing.

In addition to the new RSA unit I know the IFi iCAN Phantom does it (even if it uses the goofy as heck SD card to set bias voltage gimmick) and there’s the Audiovalve Solaris which looks super cool, but I think I’d read something about the company going out of business.

I still think the best solution is transformer adapters. One box instantly converts all of my amps into estat amps!

 

[fidgeraldo]

I’ve always been surprised that combo dynamic/electrostatic amps aren’t more popular.

Yup...me, too.
Like this meraviglioso amplifier:
Paltauf KHV-ESD II

Cheers!

 

[goldwerger]

Yup...me, too.
Like this meraviglioso amplifier:
Paltauf KHV-ESD II


Cheers!

That’s one of a heck of a versatile component. Did you ever get you ears on it?

I wish they were available in the US but don’t think so. At least never saw any mention of them this side of the pond. This Austrian company has some interesting products.

 

[Chronos]

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bay-area-meet-july-28-2024.973144/

I'll be helping out MusicTeck with a table for IEMs and DAPs as well. May bring the v281 and weiss dac501

The 501 and Imannis? Very tempting. What’s your username in the discord?

 

[fidgeraldo]

That’s one of a heck of a versatile component. Did you ever get you ears on it?

I ordered it a few days ago...and I will have it somewhere in August...I hope it will sound as good as it looks.

I'll write a comment when it comes!

Cheers!

 

[goldwerger]

I ordered it a few days ago...and I will have it somewhere in August...I hope it will sound as good as it looks.

I'll write a comment when it comes!

Cheers!

Cool thanks. Excited to get your impressions…

 

[vaporsynthwave]

I don't know about Woo you got, and how is that even possible? But you can get Cayin HA-6A for $2.5 in the US, perhaps for even less.
And I can say nothing but...I love that amp! The sound and possibilities for tube rolling are sublime.

The WA6-SE doesn't have a lot of online discussion. seems like tube fans either want a bargain or to go all out and not get caught in the middle like I am currently lol. Have to research the HA-6A, big fan of Cayin's portable stuff so I'm sure it sounds wonderful

Welcome “back”!

I have two ideas of you in the middle 2k range:

1. Feliks Euforia - find a used older version (current new is 3k, but prior versions used will be 1.5-2k) - fantastic amp with sweet liquid sound. Downside is no tube rectification you wanted
2. Glenn OTL - rare and get snatched fast, but they used units come up for sale and if you’re determined it’s a doable purchase (also around 1.5-2k) - another fantastic amp with a very powerful and dynamic presentation (I have one). Most versions are tube rectified and yours would fit; few aren’t.

Listening to my headphones on a Euphoria is what made me realize that I might be leaving some listening pleasure on the table not having and OTL for my 300+ ohm headphones. Also curious about the Elise MK2, with the online consensus being that it sacrifices some resolution for warmth when compared to the Euphoria.
Love a rare piece of gear with a cult following, maybe my excessive refreshing of the classifieds will pay off and a Glenn will appear.

I presume Woo’s own WA2 is very much “on your radar”?

I ask because while the initial purchase will run about $900-1,000 used or $1,500 new, you can burn through another $400-500 or more for great power tubes, and $400-800 for 12A-7 input tubes (with adapters). With those rolled in, the WA2 becomes a very different beast.

Hence the cost of great tubes may need to factor into your planning, unless you have some Tung-Sol 5998s, Western Electric 421s, and Telefunken G73-Rs just “laying around”…

I will add it to the list and may have to consult you about some tubes if I find one. Maybe I could get a straight trade for the WA6-SE with someone more into planars/low impedance headphones than I currently am. I would miss how much the WA6-SE brings the grado hemps to life. Decisions, decisions

 

[JackarlTwo]

I'm curious if anyone get more easily exhausted in one ear vs the other. For whatever reason I always get ear fatigue on my left side and never on my right. I can hear fine in both ears up to ~16Khz in my early 30s, and no "channel balance in either." Harsh sounds are especially prominent on my left side. Usually this harshness disappears after not listening to anything for a couple of days. I don't really listen loud either but I do have long sessions.

 

[MindBreak]

I'm curious if anyone get more easily exhausted in one ear vs the other. For whatever reason I always get ear fatigue on my left side and never on my right. I can hear fine in both ears up to ~16Khz in my early 30s, and no "channel balance in either." Harsh sounds are especially prominent on my left side. Usually this harshness disappears after not listening to anything for a couple of days. I don't really listen loud either but I do have long sessions.

Is that while using both amps, or is it more noticeable on one vs the other?

 

[JackarlTwo]

Is that while using both amps, or is it more noticeable on one vs the other?

It's more of a general thing regardless of amps or headphones. I've noticed it's usually triggered by something else during the day, a loud sound (machinery or whatever) but it's always in my left ear. I've also noticed intermittent ringing and also only in my left ear. Sometimes I can go weeks without any issues so maybe it's early tinnitus.

 

[Frankie D]

I ordered it a few days ago...and I will have it somewhere in August...I hope it will sound as good as it looks.

I'll write a comment when it comes!

Cheers!

A bit off topic, but as I see you are from Croatia I thought I would ask. I used to drink an inexpensive but excellent wine from Croatia called Adria Cabernet Sauvignon. It did not drink like a Cabernet though, more like an Italian red table wine that would go with pasta. I have not seen it in over 15 years now and was curious if you heard of it or have had it?