[ArChaos]

The legend of the “ made in Germany “ version also applies to the HD 250 Linear 2 . There is also a made in Germany and a made in Ireland version. Some people say that they sound very different but i have my doubts about that, or could it be that the Germans sparkle some magic sound dust over their headphones so that they sound better?

I don't know - all my HD250 and HD540 are "Made in Germany" models, both the 600 and 300 Ohms versions.
The later made in Ireland HD250 Linear have a grey peripheral ring as opposed to the silver ring the German version have - that's the easiest way you can distinguish between them.
Soundwise, only someone who owns them both and can AB them on spot could (possibly...) give you a straight answer, and even that would probably be subjective, IMHO at least...

 

[thee mutz]

I only have the Irish version of the 250 linear 2 but if the only difference is the colour of the ring and the country in which it is assembled, the sound must be the same.

 

[Sefelt103]

...and I suspect that what you suspect is absolutely right and moreover, that the superiority of the early German made models over the early Ireland made models is also a "legend"...

There is so little written about the early German made model (as well as the Jubilee and made in Ireland versions). It's not that I think that the locale of manufacture has any bearing (In this instance). It's just that the sound of a headphone almost invariably changes with each new model or revision (silent or not). Therefore it is quite likely that the made in Germany version had a different sound signature to the later ones that were made in Ireland. Earlier in this thread someone did describe the sound of the made in Germany flat plate HD580 and compared it to the later made in Ireland model.

 

[GreenNeedle]

I don't know - all my HD250 and HD540 are "Made in Germany" models, both the 600 and 300 Ohms versions.
The later made in Ireland HD250 Linear have a grey peripheral ring as opposed to the silver ring the German version have - that's the easiest way you can distinguish between them.
Soundwise, only someone who owns them both and can AB them on spot could (possibly...) give you a straight answer, and even that would probably be subjective, IMHO at least...

I'm also very wary of this idea. We are talking about used headphones here and bought from different people with a range of different hours of use and "housekeeping." To A>B one against the other would in my eyes require brand new or NOS at least because you might get a German one that has been cased after every use and only used for 100 hours at low to moderate volumes over the past 2 decades vs an Ireland one that has been left on top of the Amp and used for 1500 hours at uber volumes........and come to the conclusion that the German one sounds much better.

 

[Kammerat Rebekka]

Just remember that the biggest contributor to the same headphones sounding different is pad wear. There are many people around the world who still think the HD600 and 650 are the same headphones. This is due to a/b’ing headphones with different pad wear. Plunking on a pair of fresh pads on both headphones and the differences return immediately.
The pads are effectively the room you place the speakers in…with usage they deflate and make the drivers come even closer to one’s ears..and that is very much audible..which is why any real a/b testing between similar designed headphones preferably should be with brand new pads on both

 

[ArChaos]

Absolutely. There are so many factors influencing headphones' sound that is almost impossible to reliably AB vintage models. First and foremost, one will have to know the starting point: the original sound with the original ear pads and foams configuration. Then the "silent upgrades" the company made over time. Then the equipment one uses for the evaluation and the music he plays. And last but not least the subjective factors, including physical ones like ear shape and ear canals, personal taste over the FR he prefers, things as listening with or without glasses which I have rarely seen being mentioned in a review... and so on and so on...

With all my vintage headphones collection, over time I've got a lot of experience with Ear Pads. As a matter of fact, I consider them the most influencing factor in changing the sound signature of headphones. I always buy the originals if available, but even so, the originals themselves change over time. It happens even with most serious brands like Sennheiser and Beyerdynamic. Once they manufactured specific pads for every one of their old models, (770/880/990 and 580/600/650), now they have one common part for all of them, and we should be thankful that they manufacture them at all... With the Senns I'm not sure about the 660, since their pads are interchangeable with all the previous models. I also find it very unlikely that the velour and the foam inside the ear pads didn't change over time, especially taking into consideration the manufacturing country (Germany, Ireland and Romania now).

 

[Kammerat Rebekka]

I’ve always prefered the original Sennie pads for the 6 series…both for sound quality and comfort…but they tended to deflate fairly quickly compared to just about any other pad, and that made them expensive. I used to change ear pads every year in order to maintain the sound quality.
Recently though Sennheiser has updated the pads and made them more robust. They are still within 1+- dB of the original pads but seem much sturdier and way better at keeping their original shape. I’ve put on a pair on my HD580 and have been using it quite extensively for 3-4 months..and they still feel brand new. The older styled pads would’ve deflated by now and as a result changed the presentation ever so slightly.

 

[dleblanc343]

For those discussing the HD580 "Made in Germany", this seems to be literally a legend and not actually reality.

The oldest pair I've ever seen in real life had a "Germany" sticker seal on the box, yet the tabs on the headphone still were market Ireland. This is a pair from 1993.


Of course, if someone out there can prove me wrong, please do.

 

[GreenNeedle]

Absolutely. There are so many factors influencing headphones' sound that is almost impossible to reliably AB vintage models. First and foremost, one will have to know the starting point: the original sound with the original ear pads and foams configuration. Then the "silent upgrades" the company made over time. Then the equipment one uses for the evaluation and the music he plays. And last but not least the subjective factors, including physical ones like ear shape and ear canals, personal taste over the FR he prefers, things as listening with or without glasses which I have rarely seen being mentioned in a review... and so on and so on...

With all my vintage headphones collection, over time I've got a lot of experience with Ear Pads. As a matter of fact, I consider them the most influencing factor in changing the sound signature of headphones. I always buy the originals if available, but even so, the originals themselves change over time. It happens even with most serious brands like Sennheiser and Beyerdynamic. Once they manufactured specific pads for every one of their old models, (770/880/990 and 580/600/650), now they have one common part for all of them, and we should be thankful that they manufacture them at all... With the Senns I'm not sure about the 660, since their pads are interchangeable with all the previous models. I also find it very unlikely that the velour and the foam inside the ear pads didn't change over time, especially taking into consideration the manufacturing country (Germany, Ireland and Romania now).

I would bet over the past 3 decades some constituents that went into the manufacture of the foams may have fallen foul of the banhammer and thus changed the actual composition of the foams themselves.

 

[Arcayne]

There are so many factors influencing headphones' sound that is almost impossible to reliably AB vintage models.

I always swap the pads and cable over when A/B'ing these Senns, a mild inconvenience but not at all impossible. I also make sure to use the freshest set of pads I have on hand.

 

[ArChaos]

For those discussing the HD580 "Made in Germany", this seems to be literally a legend and not actually reality.

The oldest pair I've ever seen in real life had a "Germany" sticker seal on the box, yet the tabs on the headphone still were market Ireland. This is a pair from 1993.


Of course, if someone out there can prove me wrong, please do.

The 580 "Made in Germany" model definitely exists, I've seen pictures of one 'specimen' on an eBay listing - it even had the purchase receipt... these are two close ups from the listing. The receipt was dated July '95 and it costed 399 DM at the time.

 

[ArChaos]

I"ve always wondered if there is a significant difference in sound betwen the 580s (I've got the Precisions) and the 600s. For example, is the bass different? Should I own both the 580s and the 600s? Searching for answers like this on the web has a been a hit and miss procedure and I still don't really know what the difference is like. It also raises the question about whether the tuning and other facets of the HD600 has been revised over time like the HD580s have.

I was wondering the same some 20 years ago, at the beginnings of HeadFi... I had the 580 for some years and with all the endless discussions here about this I was considering purchasing a pair of 600 to find out with my own ears. Luckily for me, I decided against it and preferred to try other models. Some years ago I found a real bargain on the 600 and already owning the 6XX, I bought them out of curiosity. The differences are minimal and IMO not worth owning both models from a 'sound wise' point of view. If any, perhaps the 650 may make a difference...
I just took them out to listen to them again and believe me, swapping pads betwen them made more difference than listening to both with the same pair of ear pads for comparison. And I'm talking about two pairs of ORIGINAL Sennheiser pads, both in almost like new condition, bought at different time points. All this ear pads thing is completely insane, IMO...

 

[ArChaos]

I always swap the pads and cable over when A/B'ing these Senns, a mild inconvenience but not at all impossible. I also make sure to use the freshest set of pads I have on hand.

Absolutely, me too. Also use the same source (DAC, Amp) for A/B and different sources, songs, genres and so on for the big picture... Quite a tiring process.
I also try them 'alla Grado style', without pads at all, with foams only (even w.different foam thicknesses) like they were 'on ear' phones. I also press them a bit against the ears to get a good seal. This is a 'drivers only' test, to cancel the ear pads influence and neto compare the drivers between the models. Of course, this is not at all relevant at judging around the ear HPs general performance, but still interesting in getting the whole picture.

 

[holden4th]

The 580 "Made in Germany" model definitely exists, I've seen pictures of one 'specimen' on an eBay listing - it even had the purchase receipt... these are two close ups from the listing. The receipt was dated July '95 and it costed 399 DM at the time.

Yes, I can also back that up. When they first appeared in 1993, one of the owners of the HiFi store I used to frequent said "you just have to hear these" and they blew me away. They definitely had made in Germany on them and they sounded glorious compared to the HD540 Golds that I owned at the time.

 

[MattLee]

I just got another HD580 a few days ago. It has black silk screens and red voice coils and it's in mint condition, so I'm guessing it must be a pretty late model.

The weird thing is that it sounds very different from my other HD580 which also has black silk screens. I think my other one is an older model, closer to when they first started using black silk screens. My older one sounds much more laid back (closer to an HD650), while this newer one is more forward and bright, and it sounds nearly identical to my HD600 (marble finish, silver screens). Going between this newer HD580 and my HD600 is pretty interesting, there's next to no difference in FR.

This is what my newer HD580 looks like: