[Mightygrey]

+1 for Kamasi Washington - saw him and band at the Sydney Opera House last month, it was amazing. Picked-up "The Epic" on vinyl while I was at it! Also snagged a pair of HD580's which just landed in the mail today, hence why I've started lurking on this thread. About to play some jazz next!

 

[Sefelt103]

Thoughts comparing Sennheiser's HD580 2nd version to 3rd version

I recently got one of the early model Sennheiser HD580. This model might be thought of as the second generation after the original HD580 which was made by in Germany. Initially I wondered whether there would be much of a difference. The two contenders are:
2nd version: "HD 580 precision" printed directly on the headphone; "Made in Ireland" on the inside of the headband (the tab that holds the headband cushion in place)
3rd version: Raised name plate "HD 580 precision"; dark driver screen; "Made in Ireland"
I have been a fan of the HD580 3rd version for a few years now and was often curious about the less common earlier models and the rare and expensive Jubilee model. Comparing headphones is more difficult than sometimes supposed. It takes time to 'acclimatise' to the particular sonic character of a headphone. Another headphone you then listen to won't sound its best (even a more expensive/higher quality one). So accurate comparison is difficult because you need to remember the character of each headphone and then see what's different. So people who listen to a Sennheiser HD650 for years then put on Beyerdynamic's DT880 and say there is no bass, it's thin and crackly are simply wrong in their assessment. I find approximately 90 minutes for me is enough to transition from one headphone to another. Tyll Hertsens wrote somewhere your brain evolves a 'filter' for your headphone, changing headphones means initially the 'filter' is sub-optimal until it's overwritten with the new one. Comparing the two, the most noticeable attribute was that the 3rd version seemed rougher, more grainy in its presentation. Bass level seemed about the same, but the 2nd version has nicer bass, it's not that bass extension is more but the definition seems better. The 2nd version seems a liitle thinner, the 3rd version was the start of the thickening up that continued into the HD600 and increased significantly in the HD650. The 2nd version feels 'lighter' and more delicate in its presentation. The 3rd version is more euphonic (pleasing harmonic distortion), they are both close to neutral. I like the timbres of both headphones and they seem realistic to me (I never listen to classical music) however some have said this line of headphones doesn't have particularly lifelike timbres. Detail and separation is better for the 2nd version throughout the frequency range. The 2nd version is overall higher fidelity and more revealing/analytical than the 3rd, it merits the title 'HD580 precision'. Overall there is nothing the 3rd version does with higher fidelity than its predecessor, it does however have a slightly larger soundstage. Unless you are a lover of euphonic sound signatures and prefer a less analytical presentation then this version has little to comend it. The differences aren't particularly large for each element but cumulatively they make quite a difference. If you're the sort of person who listens to compressed music files through a modest DAC/Amp then the 3rd version might be fine for your needs. However anyone who wants more resolution and accuracy and is prepared to accept some poorly mastered material is not going to sound great the 2nd version is the one to try and source. It's unusual to look at two almost identical headphones that seem to be the same item but deliver different levels of performance. The difference is probably in the earcup or the grill (or both) that changes the acoustic character of the headphone.

 

[holden4th]

Slightly off topic. What DAC/Amp do any of you use to drive your 580s?

 

[Sefelt103]

I have a Mayflower O2+ODAC.

 

[holden4th]

I have a Mayflower O2+ODAC.

How well does this drive the 580s? I am using the Fiio E7/E9 and know I can do better. The price looks OK.

 

[Sefelt103]

The O2+ODAC doesn't have any sort of 'sound signature', so you hear the headphones sound signature which virtually every headphone has. This amplifier and the HD580 might be slightly raw for some lovers of euphonic sound and bass. I used to have the Fiio E9 (without the E7 USB DAC) and disliked it because of its 'golden' sound signature (boosted bass/treble) as well as its euphonic distortion, it also had a noticeable channel imbalance. The O2 amplifier (without the DAC) that I got after the E9 was very different as it disappeared from the chain and I started to notice the media player DAC characteristics. Whether you would buy an O2 design depends on how much you like bass/thickness or euphonic sound. Of course some people get that from the headphone rather than upstream.

 

[holden4th]

I am a classical music person who also listens to a variety of other material. For me, I want to hear the raw and visceral sound as a bow is drawn across the lower string of a cello for example. I also want clarity and know that if the 580s are underpowered then a 'veil' is apparent - it's not as clear as it could be. This is something that happens with Sennheisers but when it's overcome, the sound is awesome.

 

[basketbolide]

How well does this drive the 580s?

I used the JDS Labs ODAC+O2 (on the ES9023) with the HD580 (3rd generation) and the HD650 (2nd generation). IMHO, both the ODAC and the O2 are the low end devices. The ODAC is "acid", synthetic sound; the O2 is powerless for the HD580/650 (for example, O2's power is enough for the AD1000 and the similar headphones) with "screaming" sound. They (ODAC and O2) are good with low end headphones (Creative Aurvana, HD448) and maybe half level above (HD598 and the similar).

 

[holden4th]

I used the JDS Labs ODAC+O2 (on the ES9023) with the HD580 (3rd generation) and the HD650 (2nd generation). IMHO, both the ODAC and the O2 are the low end devices. The ODAC is "acid", synthetic sound; the O2 is powerless for the HD580/650 (for example, O2's power is enough for the AD1000 and the similar headphones) with "screaming" sound. They (ODAC and O2) are good with low end headphones (Creative Aurvana, HD448) and maybe half level above (HD598 and the similar).

So what do you use?

 

[rhiga]

I used the JDS Labs ODAC+O2 (on the ES9023) with the HD580 (3rd generation) and the HD650 (2nd generation). IMHO, both the ODAC and the O2 are the low end devices. The ODAC is "acid", synthetic sound; the O2 is powerless for the HD580/650 (for example, O2's power is enough for the AD1000 and the similar headphones) with "screaming" sound. They (ODAC and O2) are good with low end headphones (Creative Aurvana, HD448) and maybe half level above (HD598 and the similar).

I also have a hd580 (3rd gen) too. Do u think the hd650 is a step up in sound quality? I'm using hifimediy u2 async (dac) + smsl sapiii (amp) with my hd580, I'm not sure if it's good enough.

 

[basketbolide]

So what do you use?

I had like a set of the HD580 and the DIY tube OTL amplifier (A-class, single-stage, high current tubes 6N19P). For me, it's a good and inexpensive choise, as I know better than the Darkvoice 336se. However the 336se is a good low cost choice too for the 580/600/650 inside our headphone community (doctorhead.ru). I think, there are lot similar amplifiers, DIY and brands, tube and transistor, in the world, much better than O2. I didn't use a good transistor amplifiers, so I cannot to reccomend any model. I used the HD580 with Fostex HP-A8 combo too, and I think the HP-A8 onboard DAC is enough for the 580, but the onboard amplifier not good for the 580 too, and I cannot reccomend this combo too.

I also have a hd580 (3rd gen) too. Do u think the hd650 is a step up in sound quality? I'm using hifimediy u2 async (dac) + smsl sapiii (amp) with my hd580, I'm not sure if it's good enough.

IMHO, the 3rd HD580 and the 2nd HD650 are the similar-level headphones, there are some properties better in the 650, and there are another properties better in the 580. For me, the 580 are better in a tonal balance, midrange, timbres, intonations; and the 650 are little better in a soundstage, overall precision (except a midrange), treble, bass depth. I think the 580 are optimized on a midrange, and the 650 are optimized more on the ends (bass and treble), with a worse midrange. However, IMHO, the bass in the 650 is a strange - slightly "windblown".

 

[Jacobh]

I also have a hd580 (3rd gen) too. Do u think the hd650 is a step up in sound quality? I'm using hifimediy u2 async (dac) + smsl sapiii (amp) with my hd580, I'm not sure if it's good enough.

I have what I believe is a second generation HD580 and the HD6XX, so not the exact same comparison, but close. While I'm sure some would say it's an upgrade, to me it's more of a side-grade and a question of subtle differences in tone. Overall I prefer the HD580 because overall it sounds more balanced to me. I like the HD6XX for movies since it has a bit more body in the mid-bass. They are similar enough in sound to me that it could just be luck of the draw in how well the drivers were matched or just the preference I've developed after having the 580s for so long.

 

[Sefelt103]

I also have a hd580 (3rd gen) too. Do u think the hd650 is a step up in sound quality? I'm using hifimediy u2 async (dac) + smsl sapiii (amp) with my hd580, I'm not sure if it's good enough.

The HD650 is a small step up in sound quality (more bass extension, slightly improved midrange), but the headphone is less neutral. It is coloured (more bass and rolled off treble) giving it a dark sound signature. Another difference is the HD650 has a much fuller, thicker sound than any HD580 model.

 

[interface95]

Thoughts comparing Sennheiser's HD580 2nd version to 3rd version

Very nice revire of both.
I own both too and I do agrea with your thoughts.
I do like the bass of the 2nd gen one.
But consider the impact of different pads.
I have tried hd600 pads on my 2nd gen hd580 and it just sounded like the 3rd gen hd580.
I don't know if they have totally different pads or if the pads are just used differently often.

 

[Sefelt103]

Thanks. As far as I know the Sennheiser 050635 earpads are for the HD580/600/650. My review was done with these earpads on both headphones. I think the new HD660 has slightly different earpads which are interchangeable with the older ones. The mystery to me is the reasons why was the sound changed for the 3rd version.