[vcoheda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bostonears /img/forum/go_quote.gif Of course the Voice cable won't be 2x better than the stock cable. We're way past the point of diminishing returns. That's not to say the Voice won't be better than the stock cable, only that it takes a major amount of money to make minor improvements at this level.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fafner /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't expect the Voice cable to be proportionally better than the stock one, or even the standard Equinox. But nothing in my setup really is. Look at the 12au7 tubes I got...they sound awesome, I wouldn't swap them with anything else, but do they sound 4 times better than, to say, Telefunken smoothplates? Ofc not. That's not what you have to expect when dealing with high-end gear.

i agree.

it's the wrong kind of thinking to say something is not worth it because it is not "x" times better than something else. that kind of logic if applied rigorously would lead one to stop at an ipod + stock earbuds.

in audio the value of the improvement should not be judged by its cost, since what is affordable or reasonable is entirely subjective and relative.

 

[Fafner]

Here another impression for those who can understand german (btw, wasn't this guy around on Head-Fi too? not sure):

Sennheiser HD 800 – Meine Eindrücke, Reviews und lesenswerte KH-Themen - HIFI-FORUM

I'll do a translation once I'll have some more time.

Very quickly: amazing detail (almost on stats level if not even better), a bit bass shy (wondering if balanced operation will help here, anyways I'm not a bass-heavy fan: I just want an orchestra to sound right), maybe a new benchmark for naturality (that seems to be the aspect he got most stunned of) thus very, very recommended for classical music listeners (this makes me happy). Soundstage reminds the one of the K701, but without what he calls the "stereo hole". Can't say anything about this, as I never tried the K701.

 

[dharma]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fafner /img/forum/go_quote.gif Here another impression'...'

Short term test: few hours for several headphones...

 

[dharma]

Maybe commentaries part of previous link is interesting too:

Q: Would you say that the significant additional cost to the genus [over or compared to?] 701/HD600/HD650/DT-880 is justified?

A: I think the extra cost is definitely justified. With all of the headphones you mentioned you have the distinct feeling of a headset on your head.
Only the HD 800 - and it also differs from a Denon AH-7000, Ultrasone Edition 9, Stax Omega II and 4070 -
has this incredible naturalness and authenticity.

Q: For signature sound: Sennheiseruntypisch? [typical Sennheiser?]

A: The question for sound signature is unnecessary because the naturalness and authenticity is so high. ... The whole thing is really homogeneous... What should [be] a piano sounds like piano, guitar after guitar, a voice as they should sound. It is perfect and thus not really in my opinion debatable.
...
So when I say above, the HD 800 is heralding something of a new era of authenticity...

 

[Fafner]

If you look around in that german forum, you'll notice that reported availability seems to be the same I got from the SAA guy: end of May.

 

[Morph201]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fafner /img/forum/go_quote.gif Here another impression for those who can understand german (btw, wasn't this guy around on Head-Fi too? not sure): Sennheiser HD 800 – Meine Eindrücke, Reviews und lesenswerte KH-Themen - HIFI-FORUM I'll do a translation once I'll have some more time. Very quickly: amazing detail (almost on stats level if not even better), a bit bass shy (wondering if balanced operation will help here, anyways I'm not a bass-heavy fan: I just want an orchestra to sound right), maybe a new benchmark for naturality (that seems to be the aspect he got most stunned of) thus very, very recommended for classical music listeners (this makes me happy). Soundstage reminds the one of the K701, but without what he calls the "stereo hole". Can't say anything about this, as I never tried the K701.

Interesting! I say they share more than just the soundstage with the K701/2, and this 'hole' that they speak of, I have yet to notice. But, I am using the Equinox cable instead of stock, so who knows.

 

[murrays]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bostonears /img/forum/go_quote.gif Of course the Voice cable won't be 2x better than the stock cable. We're way past the point of diminishing returns. That's not to say the Voice won't be better than the stock cable, only that it takes a major amount of money to make minor improvements at this level.

Since hearing is logarithmic you have to apply decibels here. You have to consider if something that costs "2x as much" gives a +3dB improvement.

My uneducated random guess is that the expensive cable may yield maybe +0.5dB improvement, nothing more. Some people get that from a small tweak of the volume knob.

 

[dharma]

There are other more suitable cable threads for 'pure scientific' and 'humanitarian' viewpoints.

 

[murrays]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dharma /img/forum/go_quote.gif There are other more suitable cable threads for 'pure scientific' and 'humanitarian' viewpoints.

My tongue-in-cheek comment was directed at "law of diminishing returns", not cables per se. I have never seen people use decibels for cost ratios, but it is something that occurs to me.

 

[pabbi1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dharma /img/forum/go_quote.gif There are other more suitable cable threads for 'pure scientific' and 'humanitarian' viewpoints.

C'mon, how else will we pad the thread count?

We're just pounding the rubble anyway, to turn an old Churchill phrase.

 

[odigg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morph201 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Interesting! I say they share more than just the soundstage with the K701/2, and this 'hole' that they speak of, I have yet to notice. But, I am using the Equinox cable instead of stock, so who knows.

It seems like many people want to see comparisons between the HD800 and the other really expensive headphones like Stax, Edition 9, D7000, GS1000,etc. Even some of the reviews mentioned lately compare these types of expensive headphones.

But most of the reviews are saying that the HD800 is a very neutral (flat) monitor like headphone. Comparing the sonic signature to these other expensive headphones is a little silly because many of these expensive headphones are colored (some very drastically) in some way so it's already a given they are going to sound very different.

Wouldn't it make sense to compare the HD800 to other headphones that are designed to be neutral? The K701 is touted as a neutral headphone, albeit a little bass shy. There are a number of "Studio Monitor" headphones like the Senn HD280, Senn HD380, M-Audio Q40, Audio Technica M50, Sony 7506,7509, the new Shure headphones, etc.

Yes, these are all closed headphones so the soundstage will not be there. But I've listened to a number of them and they seem to have the same type of sound the HD800 reviews are saying. Neutral, maybe a little dry/boring to some, etc.

A large soundstage is not important to everybody so the soundstage of the HD800 doesn't automatically make it a winner.

The price difference between these basic studio monitors and HD800 is huge, but if the sound is 95% the same...

 

[Morph201]

I was fortunate enough to be able listen to most of the cans you listed (Ed. 9, GS1000, and some even more esoteric ones, R10,HE90, etc..)... It's hard to say that one is better than the other, more like different flavors. In direct comparison, the HD800s weren't engaging\warm sounding to me, perhaps setup synergy (?), others are going to love it. Maybe I might need a second or third listen, but initially it didn't stand out. Please don't take it the wrong way, I'm not trashing the phone, one can see that it's very well made and is a step up from what's currently available... I'm just not in any rush, right now, with all things considered I think the asking price is too much for what is being delivered...There are too many other options!

So far the Senns that seem to have left an impression on me are the HD600 both SE and balanced, HE90 not included since it's not readily available!

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

Originally Posted by odigg /img/forum/go_quote.gif There are a number of "Studio Monitor" headphones like the Senn HD280, Senn HD380, .................

It depends on what you mean by "Studio Monitor".

There are the "Tracking Headphones" which are worn in the studio by musicians to listen while performing. These do not necessarily need to be very high quality, just so they can sing in tune and be closed back so they don't leak back into the microphone.

DJ headphones are similar to the above requirement.

Then there are headphones used by ENG crews and sound recordists in the field - these need to be closed back but of a higher quality level as they are used for quality monitoring.

Then there are the headphones used for editing and manipulating sounds on a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) - these really need to be open headphones of very high quality.

The HD 800 would come into the last category and the HD 280 and 380 more for ENG and DJ work.

They are very different beasties for different audio jobs and I wouldn't try and compare them.

For instance, I have listened to both the HD 800 and the Ultrasone Edition 9 - but I would not call them competitors as they do different jobs. If you need top quality closed you go for the E9, if you want top quality open you go for the HD 800 - or you get them both - but you would not compare them to choose one or the other.

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morph201 /img/forum/go_quote.gif ..... initially it didn't stand out.

Normally this is the first indication of headphones (applies to loudspeakers as well) that are doing the job properly as neutral and accurate transducers.

If it's "impressive" then it is changing the sound in some way to make it sound impressive.

A good test is to listen to headphones that you may find "bland" for a while and then listen to another - that tends to show things in a better light.

I'm not saying "good" or "bad" here, as people have their own personal tastes.

 

[pabbi1]

As much as I hate interjecting hard data, Senn USA quoted me:

532758 is $163.28 ea.

for the hd800 cable, and, I will _try_ to order one today.