[iFi audio]

Old is certainly not bad especially when it comes to Beyer's and Senn's

Hard to argue with that statement! Cans such as HD 600 will never go out of fashion.

 

[BobG55]

Hard to argue with that statement! Cans such as HD 600 will never go out of fashion.

Since 2003, I've always owned an HD600. Those are the headphones I'm wearing on my avatar.

 

[iFi audio]

Those are the headphones I'm wearing on my avatar.

They are indeed

Since 2003, I've always owned an HD600.

I can't say how long HD 600 has been around at our office, but at least a decade earlier would be my guess

 

[mmmadog]

Bought a pair of T1.2 here awhile back that came from dh labs and came with their cable that is xlr. I bought a stock cable also and thought at first the stock cable was better fuller with more of everything. Than I did some critical listening and came to the conclusion that the DH cable was so much better. Instruments have more separation and sound stage seems to open up. Maybe it's just the xlr output being better. I'm using a AG DAC 19 feeding the C2 amplifier.

 

[iFi audio]

Bought a pair of T1.2 here awhile back that came from dh labs and came with their cable that is xlr. I bought a stock cable also and thought at first the stock cable was better fuller with more of everything. Than I did some critical listening and came to the conclusion that the DH cable was so much better. Instruments have more separation and sound stage seems to open up.

It takes a while to get used even to a good aftermarket cable, but once it settles in and your brain adjusts to things it does, then improvements can be audible.

 

[Recursion]

It takes a while to get used even to a good aftermarket cable, but once it settles in and your brain adjusts to things it does, then improvements can be audible.

I'd say that the improvement in SQ is much more likely to come from just using the balanced output. Some manufacturers optimize their amplifiers for use with the balanced output and include single ended output just for convenience. Therefore the balanced output can sound a lot better in some devices. Other manufacturers might design things the other way around. (Optmized for SQ in SE mode and including balanced for convenience.) But seeing that you work for iFi, I probably wouldn't have to explain any of this to you.

Granted, the difference could also come from just using a better cable and while they can have a very noticeable difference on SQ, especially higher end cables, those differences are often much smaller than what one would hear from using a different amplifier design, which is what are you essentially doing when you switch from SE to balanced output on an amp.

 

[iFi audio]

I'd say that the improvement in SQ is much more likely to come from just using the balanced output.

It might, as long as a product's balanced circuit is actually better than SE.

Some manufacturers optimize their amplifiers for use with the balanced output and include single ended output just for convenience.

Agreed, but there's also the other way around; balanced in/outs are used for convenience in many products, even though internally they're not fully balanced.

Therefore the balanced output can sound a lot better in some devices.

It can, yes. But not always does

Other manufacturers might design things the other way around. (Optmized for SQ in SE mode and including balanced for convenience.) But seeing that you work for iFi, I probably wouldn't have to explain any of this to you.

There's no need, but good chat!

 

[guywithtwohands]

How much extra would you say the 2nd generation is worth over the old T1?
I have my eyes on a used T1 1st gen for a little over 400€ whereas a new T1 2nd gen is around 750-800€.

From what I have gathered there are quite differing opinions on their sound with some stating that the 2nd gen is bad because it's too warm-sounding and others saying it's much better because the treble has been tamed slightly. Is there really a large difference or are we talking minor reductions in treble and a slight bump in bass? Frequency response graphs would seem to indicate that the differences should be minor, although they obviously can't tell the whole story.
I'm used to the sound of the HD 600 and 650 as well as the T90. The T90, as you probably know, were disliked by many for being crazy treble cannons, but the treble on them never bothered me much in the roughly 5 years I've had them. They are definitely very bright, but only on select recordings does it end up being too much and/or sounding worse than the 600/650 to me. From what I understand the T1 - both versions - is not nearly as bright as the T90, but happens to have a wider soundstage and more detail.

I suppose I do prefer a bit of treble sparkle as I have to say that between the HD 600, 650 and T90, the HD 650 is probably my least favourite because of how dark it can make some things sound. T90 would be somewhere in the middle for me as it sounds fantastic with some recordings, whereas the HD 600 sounds good with just about everything and is probably my overall favourite for that reason.

 

[XLR1]

I have the first gen. IMO, they is too bright due to a very defined spike at 8k. I equalize the 8k down 4-5 db. This make them among the best headphones I have owned. Because they are light weight, solidly built, they mate well with all of my amps, and they have great base, they get most of my head time. They get all my TV and gaming time. For music I have some other much more expensive headphone, but they get too heavy after an hour and most nights I end up back with the T-1s.

 

[obzilla]

How much extra would you say the 2nd generation is worth over the old T1?
I have my eyes on a used T1 1st gen for a little over 400€ whereas a new T1 2nd gen is around 750-800€

I couldn’t put a number on it for you, but I would definitely say yes they are worth it. The tamed treble, more robust low end, and the ability to use cables that suit you and your gear, to me, make the gen 2 worthwhile over the gen 1.

the other thing you may consider is resale value. The gen 2s being newer will fetch more when reselling, this is good if you’re the type that buys and sells gear often.

I’ve got cans now that are more dear to me than the T1s, but for the reasons above, and because they are still amazing cans, I’m keeping them too. Gen 1 in the same situation, I’d probably have sold by now having something higher up the chain.

 

[thefitz]

I tried pad rolling on my T1s with Dekoni velour pads. They tamed the treble slightly and reinforced the bottom end a pleasant amount, but i felt the tonality was quite different. Then, I looked at the Schiit Loki (which I've always been meaning to try) and noticed the EQ has an 8kHz and 20Hz shelf - two spots where the T1 can use some adjusting.

I pulled the trigger on a B-stock unit. Set the bass knob to about 1:00, and the treble knob to 10:00. Left the other two knobs alone.

What a fantastic difference! The treble spike was calmed right down and the slam of the bass increased tastefully without fogging up the whole signal. I recommend a Schiit Loki for the T1!

 

[donkeywalker]

T1 is a steal if you know how to drive them. I've heard too many people saying T1 has piercing treble and too little bass until they find a warm OTL amp then it's in heaven. My T1 + Crack OTL has very smooth treble and punchy bass, which is very different from WA7 or WA8 or Mojo/Hugo which only introduce more treble.

 

[vlach]

T1 is a steal if you know how to drive them. I've heard too many people saying T1 has piercing treble and too little bass until they find a warm OTL amp then it's in heaven. My T1 + Crack OTL has very smooth treble and punchy bass, which is very different from WA7 or WA8 or Mojo/Hugo which only introduce more treble.

Agreed. T1 + WA6 = Heaven.

 

[eeagle]

@donkeywalker @vlach I have yet to build my Crack so will look forward to it. Meanwhile I have always enjoyed Beyer's own A20 Amp w/my T1's; and would really like to own their A2.

 

[donkeywalker]

@donkeywalker @vlach I have yet to build my Crack so will look forward to it. Meanwhile I have always enjoyed Beyer's own A20 Amp w/my T1's; and would really like to own their A2.

I had both A1 and A2 both does not sound as lush, smooth and punchy as Crack. The sound signature with a OTL tube amp is really different , it’s like mixing the DNA of PCDs into T1