[TMRaven]

To be fair, T1 owners and HD650 owners probably shouldn't be comparing the two because there's most likely personal biased involved.  The T1 owners like T1's treble spike and don't like how the 650 could sound dull in comparison, or the 650 owners like the warmth of their headphones, and don't like how the T1 sounds piercing in comparison.
 
It's like the never-ending LCD vs HD800 battles.

 

[AlfredWong]

Quote:

To be fair, T1 owners and HD650 owners probably shouldn't be comparing the two because there's most likely personal biased involved.  The T1 owners like T1's treble spike and don't like how the 650 could sound dull in comparison, or the 650 owners like the warmth of their headphones, and don't like how the T1 sounds piercing in comparison.
 
It's like the never-ending LCD vs HD800 battles.

Strange but I kind of consider the T1 as a step up from HD650 + DT880 combined.

 

[preproman]

Quote:

To be fair, T1 owners and HD650 owners probably shouldn't be comparing the two because there's most likely personal biased involved.  The T1 owners like T1's treble spike and don't like how the 650 could sound dull in comparison, or the 650 owners like the warmth of their headphones, and don't like how the T1 sounds piercing in comparison.
 
It's like the never-ending LCD vs HD800 battles.

 
But that's exactly what comparing is.  Anything can be compared.  Like you said it's a personal biased involved, that's because after comparing one simply prefers one to the other.

 

[barid]

As I've mention in this tread in the past, I run the T1's off a Burson 160D and I love the sound.  But to be fair i still have not pulled the trigger on a WA2 for comparison.  To me the treble is a strong point for the T1.

 

[Focker]

Quote:

I went from the HD650 and AKG K702 to the T1. I will never ever again go back the T1's are seriously fantastic headphones that can play every genre without hassle. In my opinion they are as close to perfect as a headphone can be especially for an all-rounder.
 
The improvement is actually not even able to describe with words, the T1's kill the HD650 in my opinion in everything possible.

 
I don't know how similar or different my Q701s are to your AKGs, but honestly, this is one of the most disappointing headphones ever. If I had picked these up back when the price was closer to full retail, I would have sent them back for sure. I'm keeping them mainly for movies since they are comfortable, and since I only paid a little over two bills for them, but I'm really amazed when I hear someone say they like their AKGs better than the T1s. In my opinion, the T1s are in a completely different league.

 

[ericfarrell85]

From a technicalities vantage the T1 is more advanced than the HD650, but by no means is the gap enormous. Speed, clarity and tonality are the three areas where the T1's can readily be called an improvement. The HD650's, however, are some of the most musical headphones I've ever heard, but they are not, IMO, genre versatile. They are extraordinary for jazz and quite good with some small ensemble blues, soul (mostly balladry). The T1's and HE6 epitomize genre versatility for me. For those that find the HD650's dull or veiled listen to them through a Zana Deux and see if those conclusions hold up. I once used my Zana as preamp into a Beta 22 and the Hd650's were swift as a rabbit. They truly get lovelier as you scale the ladder.

 

[Zombie_X]

Hi,
 
Not to be rude, but I think the HD650 doesn't scale all that well. I've driven my HD600's from a B22, Auditor, ROC, Zana, and the improvements weren't all that great. The headphone did sound cleaner, clearer, and better defined. So IMO they are overrated. I think the HD600 is the superior headphone in the long run. Oh and I've never experienced this "slow" sound that people claim the HD600 and HD650 have. They've always sounded fast to me. Neither headphone have a veil but the HD650 does sound more muffled, even on the B22 and Zana.
 
Quote:

From a technicalities vantage the T1 is more advanced than the HD650, but by no means is the gap enormous. Speed, clarity and tonality are the three areas where the T1's can readily be called an improvement. The HD650's, however, are some of the most musical headphones I've ever heard, but they are not, IMO, genre versatile. They are extraordinary for jazz and quite good with some small ensemble blues, soul (mostly balladry). The T1's and HE6 epitomize genre versatility for me. For those that find the HD650's dull or veiled listen to them through a Zana Deux and see if those conclusions hold up. I once used my Zana as preamp into a Beta 22 and the Hd650's were swift as a rabbit. They truly get lovelier as you scale the ladder.

 

[Timmyw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zombie_X /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Neither headphone have a veil but the HD650 does sound more muffled, even on the B22 and Zana.
 

 

I thought that's what the veil was personally.
 
The fact that they sound muffled.
 
I have both the T1s and the HD650. I cannot listen to my 650s anymore they simply just can't compete in any way. In fact I have kinda come to hate the HD650. They sound muddy, unclear and syrupy. Like you are swimming through sludge. When I can be bothered I will sell them I think. Even from my Phonitor the HD650 are not my cup of tea. And to think I had them for so long and put up with all that.
 
Unlike some others I don't hear a treble spike at all, they don't sound hot or hurt my ears. That's the extent of that. I do believe I lucked out with the particular ones I received though, there is a lot of reported variance with the T1 in regard to sound. That's all from stuff I have read though and not from personal experience. I kinda wish I could compare to some other models from differing production runs and S/N groups.
 
One day maybe.

 

[KGrigori]

Quote:

 
Yes, the T1 has a weakness-- it can be sharp or hot in the treble. That I believe is the Achilles Heel of an otherwise excellent headphone. But its virtues make it worth it to me: transparency, detail, soundstage, and engagement. Clarity, speed, involvement and, except for it being a little bright, beautiful balance. And sturdy and comfortable. They make good recordings sound great, but they don't play as well with mediocre/bad recordings. I hear this has been a similar complaint with the Sennheiser HD800.  
 
Regarding amplification: I'm one of those who thinks it does not pair well with the Burson. Both are very bright-- not a good balance, IMO. I do prefer my Woo WA3 OTL tube amp with them. If you plan on keeping the headphone, definitely try a darker or warmer amp with them. You might also look at the thread about T1 damping, to calm the treble. I'd like to hear more from folks who have done that, and how it's working out for them. I might try it, but I'm concerned about potentially losing the delightful and addictive clarity and soundstage. I too own the HD650 and Denon D7000 (I love the Denon), but I find I reach for the T1 more because of what it does right.
 
By the way, welcome to Head-Fi! And, as they say, sorry about your wallet...

Pretty much what i though after getting the T1.
T1 is a great headphone in every way,except for hot treble.
Maybe because i'm not used to a headphone with similar treble.I still have to tweak the equalizer to listen to headphone.
I will look at a darker, warmer amp like you suggested , as for the damping mod i don't think i'm going to try it.
Thanks for the detailed reply.

 

[ericfarrell85]

Hi,

Not to be rude, but I think the HD650 doesn't scale all that well. I've driven my HD600's from a B22, Auditor, ROC, Zana, and the improvements weren't all that great. The headphone did sound cleaner, clearer, and better defined. So IMO they are overrated. I think the HD600 is the superior headphone in the long run. Oh and I've never experienced this "slow" sound that people claim the HD600 and HD650 have. They've always sounded fast to me. Neither headphone have a veil but the HD650 does sound more muffled, even on the B22 and Zana.

I can't find anything rude in your comments. Different strokes for different folks is all. I can't say much about the HD600, having heard it only once and briefly at that. The HD650's remain a favorite of mine, but also a one-trick pony. I use them exclusively for small-ensemble jazz and bop. They have provided me with as much satisfaction and for a longer period of time than any other headphone. Eventually the MK1 took it's place, but I regard the HD650 as one of the better returns on my investment (calculated via listening hours) and believe their synergy with the Zana is the best headphone/amp synergy I've heard. Pity you didn't hear it the way I do.

 

[Dubstep Girl]

i love the HD 650s, they scale better than other similarly-priced headphones i've owned, and they're still some of my favorite headphones.
however, they in no way can compare to the T1's. The T1 simply blow the hd 650s out of the water in just about everything. (detail, soundstage, treble, bass quality, and clarity). remember though, the T1 cost over double the price of the 650s, a more fair comparison would be T1 vs. LCD-2 (imo, even then, the t1 still comes out on top in everything except bass quality/impact)

 

[Bozoleclown]

I have to agree with many statements from the last posts.
- I also have the pair Burson HA160 / T1, and find the T1 harsh on some recordings. I managed to get a little harshness down by some equalization. Don't know if it comes from the Burson as I don't have any other amp (apart from the Essence STX soundcard integrated headphone amp, but it cannot really compete with the Burson)
- about the Senns, I can't really speak about the 650, cause I've sold them almost 2 years ago, but I've also found the HD600 to be too muddy for most of the thing I listen to (and yes apart from some blues and/or acoustic recordings, which sounded really good). This muddy character became more obvious when I got a Beyer DT880 a few months ago, and even more facing the T1.
In fact, when buying the T1 I thought I would sell the DT880, but I ended selling the HD600 instead

 

[preproman]

Quote:

I think the HD650 doesn't scale all that well. 

 
 
I beg the differ.  

 

[Dark Wizard]

Quote:

 
I don't know how similar or different my Q701s are to your AKGs, but honestly, this is one of the most disappointing headphones ever. If I had picked these up back when the price was closer to full retail, I would have sent them back for sure. I'm keeping them mainly for movies since they are comfortable, and since I only paid a little over two bills for them, but I'm really amazed when I hear someone say they like their AKGs better than the T1s. In my opinion, the T1s are in a completely different league.

 
They are very similar in my opinion I have them both and can't hear much of a difference. My Q701's broke after two weeks of use no idea why, poor build quality maybe.. The K702's doesn't deliver what I thought they would do after hearing so much positive feedback on them. It was really disappointing they are not even good for classical music is my opinion. I don't see how anyone could like the AKG's more than the T1's in any genre, doesn't make sense to me. I agree that the AKG's are comfortable for movies, but I'm still using my T1's for this now as they are very comfortable for me as well. Oh and yeah, the T1's are definitely in a completely different league over the Q701's/K702's. 

 

[Kirnupiima]

Quote:

Strange but I kind of consider the T1 as a step up from HD650 + DT880 combined.

That is a beautiful way of saying it. I like.