[gLer]

But YOU chose the IEM and cable. Also decide if you want to spend that much on a cable, if you feel the cable… back to the whole discussion about cables. That’s the point.

Yes I agree, bundling expensive cables removes the choice element. BUT you still have a choice. For example, I could buy a Bird and sell the stock 4w 1960s cable for ~$1500 and I bet it'll sell quickly. Same with Odin and Stormbreaker for that matter. However, if I do buy an expensive IEM/cable bundle, chances are I wouldn't need to cable roll to another kilobuck cable, so if you're the type of buyer that wants a kilobuck cable, it's two birds with one stone, so to speak. Whether or not the manufacturers make more or less margin is irrelevant if the cable still carries a similar resale value to the original.

The point is, if you really like what the Bird can do, but don't care for the expensive cable, sell it. Then the Bird cost you as much (or less than) an Erlk or Thummim, and noone seems to complain about those. And if a $6K IEM with a crappy cable does come along, and falls short of the other flagships, it'll be murdered in reviews and the product will fail.

Let's face it, the only reason the Bird hype hasn't subsided in spite of the cost (and "gratuitous" cable) is because it really is THAT good.

 

[DavidS11]

But YOU chose the IEM and cable. Also decide if you want to spend that much on a cable, if you feel the cable… back to the whole discussion about cables. That’s the point.

I see your point and I agree.

Everyone one of us have our own tastes and preferences in the sound we seek. Who knows we may actually preferred the sound with a different cable than the one we were ‘forced’ to take. Expensive don’t mean it is the best. The manufacturers, of course will market the premium bundle as the ‘best’ combo and charge crazy price for it. But how do we really know if it is truly the best for us? Is it the best to you, me and everyone else 100% or is it according to the designer? Would you try to find out by replacing the expensive cable you’ve paid for with the premium bundle?

I sure hope 64 Audio will not follow this trend of high premium bundle with exotic expensive cable. There are too many variables that can affect iem sound including cables, dap, amp, ear tips, etc. I rather make my own decision and have a free choice than no choice.

 

[gLer]

I see your point and I agree.

Everyone one of us have our own tastes and preferences in the sound we seek. Who knows we may actually preferred the sound with a different cable than the one we were ‘forced’ to take. Expensive don’t mean it is the best. The manufacturers, of course will market the premium bundle as the ‘best’ combo and charge crazy price for it. But how do we really know if it is truly the best for us? Is it the best to you, me and everyone else 100% or is it according to the designer? Would you try to find out by replacing the expensive cable you’ve paid for with the premium bundle?

I sure hope 64 Audio will not follow this trend of high premium bundle with exotic expensive cable. There are too many variables that can affect iem sound including cables, dap, amp, ear tips, etc. I rather make my own decision and have a free choice than no choice.

I agree with this too, I would prefer to choose my own expensive cable, and I don't like the trend of bundling already expensive IEMs with super-expensive cables. At the other extreme, the stock 64 Audio cables are terrible for anything but maybe stage use, and they should at least include a better cable (like the Silver Premium) with their high-end audiophile IEMs.

 

[DavidS11]

Yes I agree, bundling expensive cables removes the choice element. BUT you still have a choice. For example, I could buy a Bird and sell the stock 4w 1960s cable for ~$1500 and I bet it'll sell quickly. Same with Odin and Stormbreaker for that matter. However, if I do buy an expensive IEM/cable bundle, chances are I wouldn't need to cable roll to another kilobuck cable, so if you're the type of buyer that wants a kilobuck cable, it's two birds with one stone, so to speak. Whether or not the manufacturers make more or less margin is irrelevant if the cable still carries a similar resale value to the original.

The point is, if you really like what the Bird can do, but don't care for the expensive cable, sell it. Then the Bird cost you as much (or less than) an Erlk or Thummim, and noone seems to complain about those. And if a $6K IEM with a crappy cable does come along, and falls short of the other flagships, it'll be murdered in reviews and the product will fail.

Let's face it, the only reason the Bird hype hasn't subsided in spite of the cost (and "gratuitous" cable) is because it really is THAT good.

But if i’m willing to pay for the premium bundle then I would not be buying it and selling the cable. I don’t see the point of doing that.

 

[GiullianSN]

Yes I agree, bundling expensive cables removes the choice element. BUT you still have a choice. For example, I could buy a Bird and sell the stock 4w 1960s cable for ~$1500 and I bet it'll sell quickly. Same with Odin and Stormbreaker for that matter. However, if I do buy an expensive IEM/cable bundle, chances are I wouldn't need to cable roll to another kilobuck cable, so if you're the type of buyer that wants a kilobuck cable, it's two birds with one stone, so to speak. Whether or not the manufacturers make more or less margin is irrelevant if the cable still carries a similar resale value to the original.

The point is, if you really like what the Bird can do, but don't care for the expensive cable, sell it. Then the Bird cost you as much (or less than) an Erlk or Thummim, and noone seems to complain about those. And if a $6K IEM with a crappy cable does come along, and falls short of the other flagships, it'll be murdered in reviews and the product will fail.

Let's face it, the only reason the Bird hype hasn't subsided in spite of the cost (and "gratuitous" cable) is because it really is THAT good.

Fair argument, but when we say that the price of the included cable is 2k and we sell for 1.5k it's a double loss. and the comparison with other expensive IEMs are also fair. My point is exclusively on forcing the bundle. For example UM, they sell the IEMs with both option, standard cable and upgraded cable. Many other companies (full size and IEMs) do the same, when ordering you can opt for an upgraded cable, but the base price is without it. when you force unique premium option, the whole discussion change.

But, yeah... this happens because the demand allows it. For example cars, more specific 4x4/off-roads vehicles where enthusiasts really empty their pockets in aftermarket parts. When manufacturers see that people are spending 20-50-100% of the price of their cars in aftermarket accessories, they start to sell packages with extra accessories and call those an "unmissable x thousands worth of extras for free" deal. In the end, is just a way to get a bit of that profit for them.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that everything we say in this forum can be used against or in our favor. Companies have access to the data from this and other related forums. So if we keep saying that we are ok to pay many thousands for new toys...for sure that will happen more often.

 

[Deezel177]

Really? my first jomo ciem took around 4 weeks. Maybe not much demand.

64 Audio also cater to a bunch of artists in addition to their paying customers, so it'll naturally take them (and brands like them) longer than Jomo, who mostly cater towards enthusiasts. They make in-ears for artists as well, but the pro scene in Singapore isn't anywhere as busy as it is in the States.

 

[DavidS11]

I agree with this too, I would prefer to choose my own expensive cable, and I don't like the trend of bundling already expensive IEMs with super-expensive cables. At the other extreme, the stock 64 Audio cables are terrible for anything but maybe stage use, and they should at least include a better cable (like the Silver Premium) with their high-end audiophile IEMs.

Agree they need to improve to a better looking stock cable. The stock cable is not bad in sound but I did thought they could have included a more premium cable for their Fourte flagship. But then again they will likely charge even higher price for the flagship, so I see the same issue.

PS: I think they improving. The 8-wire premium cable included with the U18s is a nice cable. Hope they will improve the stock cables across the line in the future.

 

[gLer]

Fair argument, but when we say that the price of the included cable is 2k and we sell for 1.5k it's a double loss. and the comparison with other expensive IEMs are also fair. My point is exclusively on forcing the bundle. For example UM, they sell the IEMs with both option, standard cable and upgraded cable. Many other companies (full size and IEMs) do the same, when ordering you can opt for an upgraded cable, but the base price is without it. when you force unique premium option, the whole discussion change.

But, yeah... this happens because the demand allows it. For example cars, more specific 4x4/off-roads vehicles where enthusiasts really empty their pockets in aftermarket parts. When manufacturers see that people are spending 20-50-100% of the price of their cars in aftermarket accessories, they start to sell packages with extra accessories and call those an "unmissable x thousands worth of extras for free" deal. In the end, is just a way to get a bit of that profit for them.

Yep, and for the record, I'm against cable bundling myself. But I don't consider Traillii a $6000 IEM, it's a $6000 bundle. I don't think it's worth $6000 without the $2K cable, but I guess some do and would buy it anyway. I don't think we'll be seeing $6K flagships as a 'norm' unless they're bundles, because (although this is an assumption on my part) even the market for the Bird with the cable is tiny compared to the $3K/$4K flagships (outside Asia anyway). I reckon the next 64 Audio flagship will be priced at or around the same price as Fourte, unless it's a significant upgrade in tech and cost millions in R&D, in which case I can see the price jumping $500-$1000 but no more (and even then it'll probably be bundled with a very nice if not ultra premium cable).

 

[mwhals]

Yep, and for the record, I'm against cable bundling myself. But I don't consider Traillii a $6000 IEM, it's a $6000 bundle. I don't think it's worth $6000 without the $2K cable, but I guess some do and would buy it anyway. I don't think we'll be seeing $6K flagships as a 'norm' unless they're bundles, because (although this is an assumption on my part) even the market for the Bird with the cable is tiny compared to the $3K/$4K flagships (outside Asia anyway).

The more expensive the item, the smaller the market. The Hiby R6 2020 thread has much more traffic than the Hiby R8 thread for example.

 

[Darkestred]

I know it will never happen because of various factors and some speculation but it would be cool if these more expensive IEMs offered a fair "discounted" price without cable. Might tempt me way more (0% to 1%) and get me to buy one of the more ridiculously priced items.

 

[xenithon]

We need to put all of this in context - there are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of IEMs available. There are easily a few tens when it comes TOTL IEMs available. To date I am aware of two "bundles", one being the Traillii, and the other the Odin. I would not call that a trend or a norm. It's being called out for what it is and people have a choice to buy one of those two or not.

As has been stated before in this thread, and my personal view, I am more perturbed by flagship level $2-3k IEMs that come with what feels like $5 lamp cord.

And in terms of giving a choice - 100% that may be the best compromise. But, there are other factors to consider. For example, the logistics when you are producing IEMs and packaging them in boxes which are sealed; and / or sending them to distributors around the world. That model does not lend itself to customising orders.

 

[GiullianSN]

We need to put all of this in context - there are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of IEMs available. There are easily a few tens when it comes TOTL IEMs available. To date I am aware of two "bundles", one being the Traillii, and the other the Odin. I would not call that a trend or a norm. It's being called out for what it is and people have a choice to buy one of those two or not.

As has been stated before in this thread, and my personal view, I am more perturbed by flagship level $2-3k IEMs that come with what feels like $5 lamp cord.

And in terms of giving a choice - 100% that may be the best compromise. But, there are other factors to consider. For example, the logistics when you are producing IEMs and packaging them in boxes which are sealed; and / or sending them to distributors around the world. That model does not lend itself to customising orders.

There are other ones, like Wraith + EE Cleo, some UM as well.

I agree with your points as well. it's the other side of the coin. Fourte with a 5$ cable as a well known example.

 

[Dragonite820]

Imo, its better for users to choose their ideal cables instead of bundle. For me $6000 iem bundles are not worth even though resell the cable, it still not worth comparing to choose own "top tier" cables. I cannot find an $6000 crazy bundle is worth for their price, at least in temporary. Actually iems priced at $2500 or above, their main difference is about the orientation of sound but not the quality. Better to choose own cables. Enjoy!

 

[gLer]

There are other ones, like Wraith + EE Cleo, some UM as well.

I agree with your points as well. it's the other side of the coin. Fourte with a 5$ cable as a well known example.

To be fair, Fourte comes with a $130 lamp cord. Let's not be flippant.

 

[Vitaly2017]

To be fair, Fourte comes with a $130 lamp cord. Let's not be flippant.

And its also called premium cable