[chaiyuta]

Relatively to the previous model U8, N8 is around mid-bass prominent~ and I know why my friend who is the modetate treble-head simply said he prefer N8 over the previous U8. After I tried N8, my answer is really clear. I still have another friend who is more bass-head than me, and sure he can simply said N8 bass is not deep enough. JH xxx is still better for his ears~

 

[crinacle]

Relatively to the previous model U8, N8 is around mid-bass prominent~ and I know why my friend who is the modetate treble-head simply said he prefer N8 over the previous U8. After I tried N8, my answer is really clear. I still have another friend who is more bass-head than me, and sure he can simply said N8 bass is not deep enough. JH xxx is still better for his ears~

I'd disagree, my memory of the U8 was that it was extremely midbassy, in comparison to the N8 which is very sub-bass focused. As for extension, I do believe that the N8 had the edge while the U8 was rolling off rather early.

 

[chaiyuta]

Up to you then, I just simply share my opinions and I have no intention to override others~.
By the way, it might because I already use upgraded cables to U8 ADEL + Ortofon tips (not default stock comply foam). There are many factors that we hear different based on different environment and preference bias~
Among the new tia line-up, Trio is the best deep sub-bass for me.

 

[crinacle]

Same, I'm simply sharing my own impressions as well. Just giving my side of the story.

 

[project86]

I've deliberately stayed away from this thread so I wouldn't be influenced at all. But after many months of delays for various reasons, I've finally got a review of the A18t up at InnerFidelity. Bottom line - world class performance that rivals the best of the best.

I originally had a large section discussing the A18t versus Empire Ears Zeus XR Adel. But my editor wanted to minimize the wordcount spend discussing a discontinued product. So the article is left with more of a brief summary. My original draft had the A18t with m15 modules up against the Zeus XR in "R" mode using the G1 modules - these represent my favorite configurations on each CIEM. I'll just copy/past from my original draft in case anyone in interested:


The key difference I hear is that the Zeus has a more "meaty" midrange presentation. Vocals, particularly of the male variety, come across with more lushness and body. The entire midrange seems a bit forward in the mix, whilst the A18t is flatter and more tonally neutral. Now, when I say the word flat, some readers might (understandably) take that to mean lacking in excitement or tonal density. Not so. The A18t is wonderfully rich, but also very tastefully balanced. In comparison, the Zeus has a bit of romantic coloration, which may or may not be desirable.

The A18t is the first IEM I've heard which makes the Zeus seem a bit slow in terms of bass performance. They have similar levels of kick but the A18t digs deeper into the sub-bass depths. The result is the impression of more impact, when in fact both models are actually quite similar in bass quantity.

Similarly, the Zeus treble - while still excellent by any account - doesn't quite measure up to the 64 Audio flagship. The A18t has more sparkle, more shimmer up top, making things like cymbal strikes resonate more convincingly. Keep in mind, the Zeus was a stunning achievement in its day. It blew away any prior IEM I had experienced when it came to treble accuracy and control. So to hear the A18t so easily out resolve it is a real shock. Maybe there really is something to the TIA driver concept...

The last aspects to mention are soundstage and imaging. I know some folks feel in-ear monitors never really transcend an "in the head" presentation, but for me, the experience can be rather convincing. I do think it requires a certain dedication to using IEMs somewhat exclusively - there's a bit of brain adjustment involved. If the listener splits time between full-size headphones and IEMs, they may have trouble ever "getting there". This is much the same as folks who mainly listen via speakers and find headphones of any variety to be constrictive and overly direct. I've learned that many (most?) of those people will overcome that objection if they spend enough time listening to headphones exclusively... at which point they can then switch back to speakers without losing their headphone appreciation. The same thing likely applies to IEM listening as well.

Anyway, the A18t is more open and expansive, presenting a spooky-real illusion of the performance space. The Zeus has a large stage as well, but can't quite compete there. What it does excel at is imaging accuracy, keeping everything in its proper place even when things get very complex. The A18t images very well but can't muster the same realism as the Zeus. So, a bit of a trade off, with neither having a total edge over the other.

Bottom line, any music lover would be fortunate to have either of these custom IEMs at their disposal. The Zeus has a beguiling tone which I continue to reach for on a regular basis. But, if I'm being honest, the 64 Audio A18t is the technically superior IEM - cleaner, faster, more controlled, with superior extension on both ends and a more balanced overall feel.

 

[KuroKitsu]

I've deliberately stayed away from this thread so I wouldn't be influenced at all. But after many months of delays for various reasons, I've finally got a review of the A18t up at InnerFidelity. Bottom line - world class performance that rivals the best of the best.

I originally had a large section discussing the A18t versus Empire Ears Zeus XR Adel. But my editor wanted to minimize the wordcount spend discussing a discontinued product. So the article is left with more of a brief summary. My original draft had the A18t with m15 modules up against the Zeus XR in "R" mode using the G1 modules - these represent my favorite configurations on each CIEM. I'll just copy/past from my original draft in case anyone in interested:


The key difference I hear is that the Zeus has a more "meaty" midrange presentation. Vocals, particularly of the male variety, come across with more lushness and body. The entire midrange seems a bit forward in the mix, whilst the A18t is flatter and more tonally neutral. Now, when I say the word flat, some readers might (understandably) take that to mean lacking in excitement or tonal density. Not so. The A18t is wonderfully rich, but also very tastefully balanced. In comparison, the Zeus has a bit of romantic coloration, which may or may not be desirable.

The A18t is the first IEM I've heard which makes the Zeus seem a bit slow in terms of bass performance. They have similar levels of kick but the A18t digs deeper into the sub-bass depths. The result is the impression of more impact, when in fact both models are actually quite similar in bass quantity.

Similarly, the Zeus treble - while still excellent by any account - doesn't quite measure up to the 64 Audio flagship. The A18t has more sparkle, more shimmer up top, making things like cymbal strikes resonate more convincingly. Keep in mind, the Zeus was a stunning achievement in its day. It blew away any prior IEM I had experienced when it came to treble accuracy and control. So to hear the A18t so easily out resolve it is a real shock. Maybe there really is something to the TIA driver concept...

The last aspects to mention are soundstage and imaging. I know some folks feel in-ear monitors never really transcend an "in the head" presentation, but for me, the experience can be rather convincing. I do think it requires a certain dedication to using IEMs somewhat exclusively - there's a bit of brain adjustment involved. If the listener splits time between full-size headphones and IEMs, they may have trouble ever "getting there". This is much the same as folks who mainly listen via speakers and find headphones of any variety to be constrictive and overly direct. I've learned that many (most?) of those people will overcome that objection if they spend enough time listening to headphones exclusively... at which point they can then switch back to speakers without losing their headphone appreciation. The same thing likely applies to IEM listening as well.

Anyway, the A18t is more open and expansive, presenting a spooky-real illusion of the performance space. The Zeus has a large stage as well, but can't quite compete there. What it does excel at is imaging accuracy, keeping everything in its proper place even when things get very complex. The A18t images very well but can't muster the same realism as the Zeus. So, a bit of a trade off, with neither having a total edge over the other.

Bottom line, any music lover would be fortunate to have either of these custom IEMs at their disposal. The Zeus has a beguiling tone which I continue to reach for on a regular basis. But, if I'm being honest, the 64 Audio A18t is the technically superior IEM - cleaner, faster, more controlled, with superior extension on both ends and a more balanced overall feel.

Interesting that you would describe the A18t as tonally neutral, having only heard the Zeus R, tonally neutral is what I would describe it as over the A18t. A fellow Headfier that I spoke with felt that the A18t was warmer than the Zeus R, kinda like the Phantom's sound, neutral with warmth. I really got to try and demo one now.

 

[project86]

Interesting that you would describe the A18t as tonally neutral, having only heard the Zeus R, tonally neutral is what I would describe it as over the A18t. A fellow Headfier that I spoke with felt that the A18t was warmer than the Zeus R, kinda like the Phantom's sound, neutral with warmth. I really got to try and demo one now.

Keep in mind that when I first heard the Zeus XR in R mode, I did find it highly neutral. Only in comparison to the A18t do I hear the Zeus as being slightly colored. I can see how the A18t would come off as warmer in a way though, if we consider the improved speed and clarity of the bass, plus the mild (and very tastefully done) midbass boost. That all contributes to an impression of warmth when you first listen - only after careful back and forth did I realize the bass levels were actually very similar. Then again, switching modules can totally change this impression on either the Zeus or the A18t, so it's a tough comparison for sure.

 

[PinkyPowers]

I've deliberately stayed away from this thread so I wouldn't be influenced at all. But after many months of delays for various reasons, I've finally got a review of the A18t up at InnerFidelity. Bottom line - world class performance that rivals the best of the best.

I originally had a large section discussing the A18t versus Empire Ears Zeus XR Adel. But my editor wanted to minimize the wordcount spend discussing a discontinued product. So the article is left with more of a brief summary. My original draft had the A18t with m15 modules up against the Zeus XR in "R" mode using the G1 modules - these represent my favorite configurations on each CIEM. I'll just copy/past from my original draft in case anyone in interested:


The key difference I hear is that the Zeus has a more "meaty" midrange presentation. Vocals, particularly of the male variety, come across with more lushness and body. The entire midrange seems a bit forward in the mix, whilst the A18t is flatter and more tonally neutral. Now, when I say the word flat, some readers might (understandably) take that to mean lacking in excitement or tonal density. Not so. The A18t is wonderfully rich, but also very tastefully balanced. In comparison, the Zeus has a bit of romantic coloration, which may or may not be desirable.

The A18t is the first IEM I've heard which makes the Zeus seem a bit slow in terms of bass performance. They have similar levels of kick but the A18t digs deeper into the sub-bass depths. The result is the impression of more impact, when in fact both models are actually quite similar in bass quantity.

Similarly, the Zeus treble - while still excellent by any account - doesn't quite measure up to the 64 Audio flagship. The A18t has more sparkle, more shimmer up top, making things like cymbal strikes resonate more convincingly. Keep in mind, the Zeus was a stunning achievement in its day. It blew away any prior IEM I had experienced when it came to treble accuracy and control. So to hear the A18t so easily out resolve it is a real shock. Maybe there really is something to the TIA driver concept...

The last aspects to mention are soundstage and imaging. I know some folks feel in-ear monitors never really transcend an "in the head" presentation, but for me, the experience can be rather convincing. I do think it requires a certain dedication to using IEMs somewhat exclusively - there's a bit of brain adjustment involved. If the listener splits time between full-size headphones and IEMs, they may have trouble ever "getting there". This is much the same as folks who mainly listen via speakers and find headphones of any variety to be constrictive and overly direct. I've learned that many (most?) of those people will overcome that objection if they spend enough time listening to headphones exclusively... at which point they can then switch back to speakers without losing their headphone appreciation. The same thing likely applies to IEM listening as well.

Anyway, the A18t is more open and expansive, presenting a spooky-real illusion of the performance space. The Zeus has a large stage as well, but can't quite compete there. What it does excel at is imaging accuracy, keeping everything in its proper place even when things get very complex. The A18t images very well but can't muster the same realism as the Zeus. So, a bit of a trade off, with neither having a total edge over the other.

Bottom line, any music lover would be fortunate to have either of these custom IEMs at their disposal. The Zeus has a beguiling tone which I continue to reach for on a regular basis. But, if I'm being honest, the 64 Audio A18t is the technically superior IEM - cleaner, faster, more controlled, with superior extension on both ends and a more balanced overall feel.

Great write-up. Thanks for sharing.

Is Zeus discontinued? I thought Empire simply moved it to their legacy line. Maybe that's changed. They seem to change their minds a lot.

 

[project86]

Great write-up. Thanks for sharing.

Is Zeus discontinued? I thought Empire simply moved it to their legacy line. Maybe that's changed. They seem to change their minds a lot.

Thanks!

I don't see the Zeus listed anywhere on their site now. Maybe I'm blind, but I go to the "in-ear monitors" tab and see the EP line and the X series, neither of which contain a Zeus (or the Spartan or other familiar models). The site isn't the best though, perhaps I'm just lost.

 

[KuroKitsu]

Great write-up. Thanks for sharing.

Is Zeus discontinued? I thought Empire simply moved it to their legacy line. Maybe that's changed. They seem to change their minds a lot.

Zeus XIV-R and Spartan IV are both in the Legacy section

 

[Stranger Than Fiction]

I could omly ever dream of auditioning the U18t, much less own them, and even then I’d have to travel to Sydney to do so.

 

[KuroKitsu]

I could omly ever dream of auditioning the U18t, much less own them, and even then I’d have to travel to Sydney to do so.

Universals and Customs have a difference in sound signature, so demoing a universal then getting the custom might result in a slightly difference sound than you expected. I feel you though, demo not withstanding, the cost of the 18t alone is deterrent for me.

 

[twister6]

This is interesting, m15/m20 sounding similar on the N8, what about noise isolation? any difference?

Most of the impressions of N8 shared in this thread are based on universal demo unit people auditioned at Music Sanctuary store or at various CanJams. My impression is based on CIEM unit and I don't hear too much difference between M15 and M20. Just a touch more bass with M20 and a bit more open stage with M15. To my ears difference is subtle, and i think I have an explanation why.

M15 (gray unit) has 15dB isolation and 2 venting holes. M20 (silver unit) has 20dB isolation and 1 venting hole. Now, take a closer look at how APEX module sits inside of N8 CIEM cavity, and actually in this picture I have it just a hairline out because I needed to grab it with ic-chip extractor:



It's all the way in deep, where the pinholes under the cap are not as fully exposed like it is in other 64 Audio units with universal shells. Not the best picture angle, but you can see it here in U12t or U18t where it sticks out more, giving more clearance to both sides of APEX module and both vent holes:



Thus in CIEM version of N8 I hear nearly the same level of isolation between M15 and M20 and very subtle sound difference. In universal demo version of N8 with a shell probably similar to U12t/U18t, I assume the APEX module will stick out more, pinholes will be more exposed, AND you will also have a difference in seal due to eartips variation.

 

[project86]

Universals and Customs have a difference in sound signature, so demoing a universal then getting the custom might result in a slightly difference sound than you expected. I feel you though, demo not withstanding, the cost of the 18t alone is deterrent for me.

This is unfortunately true - or at least it is sometimes. I have heard a few universal demos that were essentially identical to the custom version, but these seem rare. Typically it is a noticeably different - and often inferior - result from the universal version. It bothers me that this is the case because you'd think these companies could achieve similar results.... but the differences seem obvious in many cases.

 

[eldss]

Most of the impressions of N8 shared in this thread are based on universal demo unit people auditioned at Music Sanctuary store or at various CanJams. My impression is based on CIEM unit and I don't hear too much difference between M15 and M20. Just a touch more bass with M20 and a bit more open stage with M15. To my ears difference is subtle, and i think I have an explanation why.

M15 (gray unit) has 15dB isolation and 2 venting holes. M20 (silver unit) has 20dB isolation and 1 venting hole. Now, take a closer look at how APEX module sits inside of N8 CIEM cavity, and actually in this picture I have it just a hairline out because I needed to grab it with ic-chip extractor:



It's all the way in deep, where the pinholes under the cap are not as fully exposed like it is in other 64 Audio units with universal shells. Not the best picture angle, but you can see it here in U12t or U18t where it sticks out more, giving more clearance to both sides of APEX module and both vent holes:



Thus in CIEM version of N8 I hear nearly the same level of isolation between M15 and M20 and very subtle sound difference. In universal demo version of N8 with a shell probably similar to U12t/U18t, I assume the APEX module will stick out more, pinholes will be more exposed, AND you will also have a difference in seal due to eartips variation.

I agree on the isolation on the customs. The modules sit almost flush on my A12t and when it comes to isolation, it's almost the same (most times I can't tell the difference). The M15 modules also work well during flights and loud environments.