The Official 64 Audio Thread | apex & tia Technologies
Jul 9, 2018 at 11:52 AM Post #4,891 of 23,720
That's true. Need more money to support it
Yup, I'm kind of glad that I got myself off of mobage. All that money is now going towards this hobby. First I bought the A3, thinking it would be endgame (I already had a pair of neutral triple BA universals). Realized that my source gear wasn't enough, bought an M7. M7 was too buggy, bought an A45 Walkman. Heard the Phantoms, decide my A3's weren't neutral enough. Had enough for Spartan IV. Then I returned the Walkman because of hissing, went back to M7, still too buggy, need to get a new DAP to replace that now. Trying to decide on A6t/ Phantom now too. Keep in mind this was in the space of 3 months. I haven't even gotten into amps yet.
 
Jul 9, 2018 at 11:58 AM Post #4,892 of 23,720
Yup, I'm kind of glad that I got myself off of mobage. All that money is now going towards this hobby. First I bought the A3, thinking it would be endgame (I already had a pair of neutral triple BA universals). Realized that my source gear wasn't enough, bought an M7. M7 was too buggy, bought an A45 Walkman. Heard the Phantoms, decide my A3's weren't neutral enough. Had enough for Spartan IV. Then I returned the Walkman because of hissing, went back to M7, still too buggy, need to get a new DAP to replace that now. Trying to decide on A6t/ Phantom now too. Keep in mind this was in the space of 3 months. I haven't even gotten into amps yet.
I started by FiiO x53 with shure 535. Then jumpinto xelento, too much noise. Changed to Sony wm1a and EE Apollo, right now, using u10 and sp1000. I love sp1000, but it’s too heavy for me and I’m only listen 5hours per day. Only vocal music. Probably lower my dap level and try CIEM
 
Jul 9, 2018 at 9:30 PM Post #4,894 of 23,720
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Jul 10, 2018 at 12:33 AM Post #4,895 of 23,720
Finally had the chance to stop in and test some DAPs today:
The N3 was a nice surpise at how quiet it was, you had to push it to nigh high levels to hear any hissing and the levels I usually listen to are nowhere near that. A pleasant surpise.
Opus 1s was a disappointment and a huge hiss monster to my ears. I had to push up the volume rather high to be able to hear it and at that point the hissing was very very annoying
Onkyo DP-X1A was longer in stock since a sucessor is supposely coming soon, I did talk to a fellow audiophile who was using the X1 with the Zeus R who recommended it highly.

Ended up getting the N3, pretty happy with it paired with my A3s and Spartans so far.

I also had a nice hour long discussion with him about various things including Adel and Apex which he felt wasn't of sound science and cited Empire dropping Adel going forward, I could swear by my no longer fatigue ears that Apex does work, thought I don't hope that it's a placebo and more an actual sign that it does work.
 
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Jul 10, 2018 at 2:04 AM Post #4,896 of 23,720
iFi Audio has a little dongle you use between your output port and your headphones called iEMatch. It solves any hiss issues.
5FEDE7D5-AB24-438C-93F6-0A638EDA1A52.jpeg

The hissing problem is gone! Though I need to dial up my volume quite a bit, I like what this dongle does! Overall the sound is cleaner, I feel.
 
Jul 10, 2018 at 2:15 AM Post #4,897 of 23,720


The hissing problem is gone! Though I need to dial up my volume quite a bit, I like what this dongle does! Overall the sound is cleaner, I feel.

The sound is cleaner as a result of the hiss removal. Though, with the cheaper iFi Ear Buddy, I do feel a slight lower-treble attenuation, so peaks are less troublesome or brittle there.
 
Jul 10, 2018 at 2:23 AM Post #4,898 of 23,720
The sound is cleaner as a result of the hiss removal. Though, with the cheaper iFi Ear Buddy, I do feel a slight lower-treble attenuation, so peaks are less troublesome or brittle there.
Makes sense, I think most people just ignore the hiss once they start playing music, won't do that anymore :)

I only started noticing the hiss problem when using my BlueDAC after getting A18t, didn't happen to me using the U12. I don't notice any hiss issues w/A18t & Sony WM1A pairing.
 
Jul 10, 2018 at 9:51 AM Post #4,899 of 23,720
Makes sense, I think most people just ignore the hiss once they start playing music, won't do that anymore :)

I only started noticing the hiss problem when using my BlueDAC after getting A18t, didn't happen to me using the U12. I don't notice any hiss issues w/A18t & Sony WM1A pairing.
I'm actually surprised that people can live with the hiss. Maybe it's OCD on my part, but any hissing completely ruin the enjoyment for me.

I haven't been able to hunt down the WM1A to test out yet, but what I get is that its one of those things Sony makes that's not a miss.The pricetag attached with it though, you might as well get the A&K SE100. What are your thoughts on it, with the A18t? How does it handle tags and embedded album art. I had to retag everything to ID3 V2.3 and all my embedded album art to baseline JPGs for the A45, needless to say I wasn't happy about having to maintain 2 copies of my collection just because Sony is being weird.

@Deezel177 Speaking of the A18t, any chance you've compared them with the Phantoms? After a long discussion yesterday about the Zeus R's BA setup focusing on a higher ratio of High drivers to Mid/Low drivers to get around that 16Khz barrier. 64's line with Tia seems to be 1 High/ 1 Super High and the rest being distributed around Low and Mids, does Tia offer something similar without requiring a large number of drivers?
 
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Jul 10, 2018 at 11:08 AM Post #4,900 of 23,720
I haven't been able to hunt down the WM1A to test out yet, but what I get is that its one of those things Sony makes that's not a miss.The pricetag attached with it though, you might as well get the A&K SE100. What are your thoughts on it, with the A18t? How does it handle tags and embedded album art. I had to retag everything to ID3 V2.3 and all my embedded album art to baseline JPGs for the A45, needless to say I wasn't happy about having to maintain 2 copies of my collection just because Sony is being weird.

I think the WM1A has a pretty neutral sound signature, definitely not as warm (or as expensive) as the WM1Z. I got the WM1A for about $900 USD so I'm not sure if the SE100 is that cheap on the market or you meant to compare the SE100 to the WM1Z. I am currently burning-in this thing to the recommended 200 hours (balanced only for now) and I'm just about a little over half way there so my impressions may change in the long run. I think the A18 is very technical & versatile, been trying different sources with this IEM and I haven't really run into a combo that I didn't like. Seems like a good pairing to me, more choices for different types of upgrade cables if you're into that sort of thing.

Other things such as great battery life is really what sealed the deal for me. Originally I looked at other DAPs with more features but those translated to significantly shorter battery life. After using the WM1A, I appreciate its simple feature set.

I didn't find any issues with album art yet with MP3/FLAC/AIFF but I also haven't migrated my entire library over so it is possible that I also need to do some retagging. I did run into trouble getting some ALAC files to play on the WM1A, not sure why that is since that format is supposedly supported.
 
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Jul 10, 2018 at 11:22 AM Post #4,901 of 23,720
I'm actually surprised that people can live with the hiss. Maybe it's OCD on my part, but any hissing completely ruin the enjoyment for me.

I haven't been able to hunt down the WM1A to test out yet, but what I get is that its one of those things Sony makes that's not a miss.The pricetag attached with it though, you might as well get the A&K SE100. What are your thoughts on it, with the A18t? How does it handle tags and embedded album art. I had to retag everything to ID3 V2.3 and all my embedded album art to baseline JPGs for the A45, needless to say I wasn't happy about having to maintain 2 copies of my collection just because Sony is being weird.

@Deezel177 Speaking of the A18t, any chance you've compared them with the Phantoms? After a long discussion yesterday about the Zeus R's BA setup focusing on a higher ratio of High drivers to Mid/Low drivers to get around that 16Khz barrier. 64's line with Tia seems to be 1 High/ 1 Super High and the rest being distributed around Low and Mids, does Tia offer something along that line?

At the cost of an SE100, you can get a WM1A plus a K mod from Music Sanctuary. In terms of resolution, extension both ways and imaging precision, it’s not far off from the likes of the SP1000; stage expansion is probably the only area where the SP1000 wins clearly. Its warmer, more bodied timbre will stray somewhat from A&K’s cleaner and more neutral tendencies, but that makes it a better pairing with the A18t. All of my files are copied off of iTunes or lossless downloads and I've had no issues whatsoever with tagging, etc. Battery life is an absolute highlight of the WM1A (I only charge it once every three days if in constant use) and I heavily prefer the more rugged 4.4mm plug than A&K's 2.5mm plug. I've had numerous bad experiences with that format in particular.

The Phantom is a vastly different IEM compared to the A18t. The A18t is very clarity-focused with heavy emphases on micro-detail retrieval, speed and transient attack. The Phantom greatly emphasises naturalness in tone and bodily resolution. The A18t will immediately sound more fun, exciting and crisp, but the Phantom to me represents a truer listening experience; more life-like. Now, contrary to popular belief, life-liked-ness or realism in tone will not be universally desired. I'm sure many will prefer the fast, clean and crisp response of the A18t's, while others will prefer the Phantom's more humane and organic tone. I - for one - think they're both great for different purposes; almost like an HD800 vs. Audeze ordeal.

The A18t is unique in that it devotes drivers in the TWFK family to mids and bass. Typically, you'd see CL's or ED's down low. They have larger diaphragms for greater robustness and impact, but are slower and less resolving as a result. TWFK's are faster and cleaner, but their small size limits impact. So, to make up for this, 64Audio apply many of them in a semi-Tia configuration (as discussed on this thread previously) to increase the effective surface area of the drivers; combining the speed and cleanliness of the TWFK's with sufficient impact and physicality. Plus, eight CL drivers would simply not fit in an IEM. The A12t is where you'll find them, which is I assume why it has a more robust low-end. Only a single Tia driver is required as removing the drivers lid turns it into a freely radiating diaphragm. This reduces resonance and distortion, which increases its effective signal to great heights. More effort is then put into controlling the driver as the acoustics around it matter much more than usual, but that's why Tia as a technology is so revolutionary. I hope I didn't get anything wrong there. :D
 
Jul 10, 2018 at 11:23 AM Post #4,902 of 23,720
I think the WM1A has a pretty neutral sound signature, definitely not as warm (or as expensive) as the WM1Z. I got the WM1A for about $900 USD so I'm not sure if the SE100 is that cheap on the market or you meant to compare the SE100 to the WM1Z. I am currently burning-in this thing to the recommended 200 hours (balanced only for now) and I'm just about a little over half way there so my impressions may change in the long run. I think the A18 is very technical & versatile, been trying different sources with this IEM and I haven't really run into a combo that I didn't like. Seems like a good pairing to me, more choices for different types of upgrade cables if you're into that sort of thing.

Other things such as great battery life is really what sealed the deal for me. Originally I looked at other DAPs with more features but those translated to significantly shorter battery life. After using the WM1A, I appreciate its simple feature set.

I didn't have find any issues with album art yet with MP3/FLAC/AIFF but I also haven't migrated my entire library over so it is possible that I also need to do some retagging. I did run into trouble getting some ALAC files to play on the WM1A, not sure why that is since that format is supposedly supported.

Only $900 USD? That's a steal. It retails in Canada for $1500 CAD. If I import it from the US, it's about $1100 USD + $200 in import fees, possible duties AND thats before the exchange rate. The SE 100 I can get tax free for $2300 CAD, if I'm going to pay $1500 CAD for a Sony Walkman, I might as well shell out the extra. That said I would not pay more than 1k CAD for a DAP anyways.

In terms of sound I'm looking for a flat neutral signature ala Zeus R, with even the Phantoms being a bit warmer than I like, so I've been basing BA armature setups against the Zeus R. If the 18t isn't flat neutral, it's probably not my cup of tea.
 
Jul 10, 2018 at 11:39 AM Post #4,903 of 23,720
At the cost of an SE100, you can get a WM1A plus a K mod from Music Sanctuary. In terms of resolution, extension both ways and imaging precision, it’s not far off from the likes of the SP1000; stage expansion is probably the only area where the SP1000 wins clearly. Its warmer, more bodied timbre will stray somewhat from A&K’s cleaner and more neutral tendencies, but that makes it a better pairing with the A18t. All of my files are copied off of iTunes or lossless downloads and I've had no issues whatsoever with tagging, etc. Battery life is an absolute highlight of the WM1A (I only charge it once every three days if in constant use) and I heavily prefer the more rugged 4.4mm plug than A&K's 2.5mm plug. I've had numerous bad experiences with that format in particular.

The Phantom is a vastly different IEM compared to the A18t. The A18t is very clarity-focused with heavy emphases on micro-detail retrieval, speed and transient attack. The Phantom greatly emphasises naturalness in tone and bodily resolution. The A18t will immediately sound more fun, exciting and crisp, but the Phantom to me represents a truer listening experience; more life-like. Now, contrary to popular belief, life-liked-ness or realism in tone will not be universally desired. I'm sure many will prefer the fast, clean and crisp response of the A18t's, while others will prefer the Phantom's more humane and organic tone. I - for one - think they're both great for different purposes; almost like an HD800 vs. Audeze ordeal.

The A18t is unique in that it devotes drivers in the TWFK family to mids and bass. Typically, you'd see CL's or ED's down low. They have larger diaphragms for greater robustness and impact, but are slower and less resolving as a result. TWFK's are faster and cleaner, but their small size limits impact. So, to make up for this, 64Audio apply many of them in a semi-Tia configuration (as discussed on this thread previously) to increase the effective surface area of the drivers; combining the speed and cleanliness of the TWFK's with sufficient impact and physicality. Plus, eight CL drivers would simply not fit in an IEM. The A12t is where you'll find them, which is I assume why it has a more robust low-end. Only a single Tia driver is required as removing the drivers lid turns it into a freely radiating diaphragm. This reduces resonance and distortion, which increases its effective signal to great heights. More effort is then put into controlling the driver as the acoustics around it matter much more than usual, but that's why Tia as a technology is so revolutionary. I hope I didn't get anything wrong there. :D

Man i envy all of you who have such ready access to get gear. Everything in Canada requires cutting off your arm, leg and selling your soul to the devil on top of giving away your PIN. I've tried the SE 100 and that neutralness is exactly what I want, the cost though means that its not in consideration anytime soon. I've been happy with the incredibly low noise floor of the Onkyo x1a, and I can get that for half the price of the walkman up here. The WM1A doesn't feel like something worth the price to me at least.

The more I hear, the more it seems that the A18t isn't for me. I might have to suck it up and shell out for new impressions with Empire at this rate. Still I want to hear thy A6t impressions, I'm probably more excited about your A6ts than you are at this point.I much rather stay with 64 since they have my impressions on file too.
 
Jul 10, 2018 at 12:08 PM Post #4,904 of 23,720
Man i envy all of you who have such ready access to get gear. Everything in Canada requires cutting off your arm, leg and selling your soul to the devil on top of giving away your PIN. I've tried the SE 100 and that neutralness is exactly what I want, the cost though means that its not in consideration anytime soon. I've been happy with the incredibly low noise floor of the Onkyo x1a, and I can get that for half the price of the walkman up here. The WM1A doesn't feel like something worth the price to me at least.

The more I hear, the more it seems that the A18t isn't for me. I might have to suck it up and shell out for new impressions with Empire at this rate. Still I want to hear thy A6t impressions, I'm probably more excited about your A6ts than you are at this point.I much rather stay with 64 since they have my impressions on file too.

DHL just picked them up from Singapore for delivery and I should have impressions ready by the end of the week. :wink:
 
Jul 10, 2018 at 1:22 PM Post #4,905 of 23,720


A mighty pairing, indeed.

Astell&Kern SE100>Leonoidas>tia Fourté
 
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