[digidesigner]

Btw some might get the impression that LID tech prevents any alteration of sound from sources which isn’t accurate. All it does is mitigates the difference in sound due to impedance differences only.
So DAC/amps still do make a difference for the U12t.

I like to make tests as I have the equipment to do so. Here is a pic of mesaurements of three very different amps driving U12t placed on top of each other, the differences are minimal at the best, the other pic is the measurements of U18t with the same three amps placed on top of each other. There you can clearly see, that depending on the amp you might end up with the U18t having 9db of less bass and 9db of less top end, or more. Sure there are parameters other than frequency response, but that is clearly the main parameter what affect what we hear

. Each horizontal line is 1db.

 

[drftr]

I like to make tests as I have the equipment to do so. Here is a pic of mesaurements of three very different amps driving U12t placed on top of each other, the differences are minimal at the best, the other pic is the measurements of U18t with the same three amps placed on top of each other. There you can clearly see, that depending on the amp you might end up with the U18t having 9db of less bass and 9db of less top end, or more. Sure there are parameters other than frequency response, but that is clearly the main parameter what affect what we hear. Each horizontal line is 1db.

That's why 64Audio recommends an amp with a low output impedance.

Would be interesting to know which amps you used and which line they represent.

drftr

 

[maceto]

I like to make tests as I have the equipment to do so. Here is a pic of mesaurements of three very different amps driving U12t placed on top of each other, the differences are minimal at the best, the other pic is the measurements of U18t with the same three amps placed on top of each other. There you can clearly see, that depending on the amp you might end up with the U18t having 9db of less bass and 9db of less top end, or more. Sure there are parameters other than frequency response, but that is clearly the main parameter what affect what we hear. Each horizontal line is 1db.

Now throw in different cables witch have different Ohms and it will explain why people hear a difference too (I like to stir up things)

 

[GrBm]

Now throw in different cables witch have different Ohms and it will explain why people hear a difference too (I like to stir up things)

Does anyone actually know how much variation there actually is in that regard? To the best of my knowledge we’re talking fractions of an ohm over a very short length. But most cable manufacturers don’t appear to list things like that (64 being one of the few I’m aware of: their $200 Premium cable is 0.23ohms, $300 Premium 8-Braid 0.28ohms and the rest don’t say).

This is EVERYTHING Effect Audio gives you for a $2,000 cable https://www.effectaudio.com/chiron-4w :

SPECIFICATION​

• 26AWG 4Wires
• Selected Premium UP-OCC Material
• Gold Plated Silver / Gold Plated Silver Gold Alloy Hybrid
• Septuplet Core Bundle Litz
• Multi-Sized Stranding
• EA Ultra Flexi™ Insulation
• Superior PSquared/P-EA Plug with Titanium Casing
• Titanium Shelled ConX Interchangeable Connector

Absolutely no mention of resistance, inductance or anything else that could possibly affect an IEMs sound.

 

[drftr]

Does anyone actually know how much variation there actually is in that regard? To the best of my knowledge we’re talking fractions of an ohm over a very short length. But most cable manufacturers don’t appear to list things like that (64 being one of the few I’m aware of).

This is EVERYTHING Effect Audio gives you for a $2,000 cable https://www.effectaudio.com/chiron-4w :

SPECIFICATION​

• 26AWG 4Wires
• Selected Premium UP-OCC Material
• Gold Plated Silver / Gold Plated Silver Gold Alloy Hybrid
• Septuplet Core Bundle Litz
• Multi-Sized Stranding
• EA Ultra Flexi™ Insulation
• Superior PSquared/P-EA Plug with Titanium Casing
• Titanium Shelled ConX Interchangeable Connector

Absolutely no mention of resistance, inductance or anything else that could possibly affect an IEMs sound.

From memory most cables have less than about 2 Ohms resistance. That is way way way below the max 50 Ohm 64Audio recommends for IEMs with a higher impedance.

drftr

 

[maceto]

Does anyone actually know how much variation there actually is in that regard? To the best of my knowledge we’re talking fractions of an ohm over a very short length. But most cable manufacturers don’t appear to list things like that (64 being one of the few I’m aware of).

This is EVERYTHING Effect Audio gives you for a $2,000 cable https://www.effectaudio.com/chiron-4w :

SPECIFICATION​

• 26AWG 4Wires
• Selected Premium UP-OCC Material
• Gold Plated Silver / Gold Plated Silver Gold Alloy Hybrid
• Septuplet Core Bundle Litz
• Multi-Sized Stranding
• EA Ultra Flexi™ Insulation
• Superior PSquared/P-EA Plug with Titanium Casing
• Titanium Shelled ConX Interchangeable Connector

Absolutely no mention of resistance, inductance or anything else that could possibly affect an IEMs sound.

Good point, silver vs Cooper is 7%… but you tend to find better connections the more you pay and tend to pay a lot more for a silver cable… that’s where I think the resistance is found.

Watch their video and the sound differences between cables https://hosatech.com/press-release/the-advantage-of-silver-cable/

 

[maceto]

Good point, silver vs Cooper is 7%… but you tend to find better connections the more you pay and tend to pay a lot more for a silver cable… that’s where I think the resistance is found.

Watch their video and the sound differences between cables https://hosatech.com/press-release/the-advantage-of-silver-cable/

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/8cfmir/comment/dxekmc5/ seems it’s more about the design of the IEM than anything?

 

[GrBm]

From memory most cables have less than about 2 Ohms resistance. That is way way way below the max 50 Ohm 64Audio recommends for IEMs with a higher impedance.

drftr

Based upon my (limited) understanding a 2 ohm IEM cable would have to be tiny or made out of cheaply implemented CCA (copper clad aluminum) or some such. I’d assume 64 Audios aftermarket cables are about average for their class (the $200 Premium is 0.23ohms, their $300 is 0.28). But,… bare in mind I’ve done no more than familiarize myself on the basic science behind this subject, I’ve not looked into cables themselves.

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/8cfmir/comment/dxekmc5/ seems it’s more about the design of the IEM than anything?

That is absolutely the case. Generally the lower ohms an IEM is the more likely it is that using something to increase the ohms the amplifier sees will change the sound signature. But,… not everything is designed that way.

 

[GrBm]

Good point, silver vs Cooper is 7%… but you tend to find better connections the more you pay and tend to pay a lot more for a silver cable… that’s where I think the resistance is found.

Watch their video and the sound differences between cables https://hosatech.com/press-release/the-advantage-of-silver-cable/

It’d be interesting to know how good the connections inside IEMs are,… as that could be a limiting factor once you get into expensive cables.

 

[theveterans]

Does anyone actually know how much variation there actually is in that regard? To the best of my knowledge we’re talking fractions of an ohm over a very short length. But most cable manufacturers don’t appear to list things like that (64 being one of the few I’m aware of: their $200 Premium cable is 0.23ohms, $300 Premium 8-Braid 0.28ohms and the rest don’t say).

This is EVERYTHING Effect Audio gives you for a $2,000 cable https://www.effectaudio.com/chiron-4w :

SPECIFICATION​

• 26AWG 4Wires
• Selected Premium UP-OCC Material
• Gold Plated Silver / Gold Plated Silver Gold Alloy Hybrid
• Septuplet Core Bundle Litz
• Multi-Sized Stranding
• EA Ultra Flexi™ Insulation
• Superior PSquared/P-EA Plug with Titanium Casing
• Titanium Shelled ConX Interchangeable Connector

Absolutely no mention of resistance, inductance or anything else that could possibly affect an IEMs sound.

It would have different RLC variations at different frequencies. You would know that thorough pairing it up with the u18T yourself

And yes, Gold silver alloy hybrid sounds different than silver due to more effects on RLC properties than pure silver

 

[digidesigner]

That's why 64Audio recommends an amp with a low output impedance.

Would be interesting to know which amps you used and which line they represent.

drftr

I do not own "high end" HP amps but lots of ones musicians or sound engineers use, either in their sound cards, mixing desks, "bodypacks" or other so called "professional" devices. These tests I have done are just out of pure interest if and how random HP amps do or do not affect the sound. But just to give some reference to the graphs I say one of them is a professional external sound card that musicians often use to monitor their mixing or recording (the one that gives you the worst sounding result with the U18t) then the second one is my iphone that was the last model that had HP output built in and the third amp is Mojo. It is interesting to see about Mojo and Macbook Pro that I have (2012) result in 1:1 same frequency response graph. The only problem is that the amp in macbook pro is too powerful for IEM and we cannot turn the amp side down, just the signal that is fed to the amp, resulting in high noise floor since noise comes from the amp that is always at 100%

 

[Bret Halford]

Does anyone actually know how much variation there actually is in that regard? To the best of my knowledge we’re talking fractions of an ohm over a very short length. But most cable manufacturers don’t appear to list things like that (64 being one of the few I’m aware of: their $200 Premium cable is 0.23ohms, $300 Premium 8-Braid 0.28ohms and the rest don’t say).

This is EVERYTHING Effect Audio gives you for a $2,000 cable https://www.effectaudio.com/chiron-4w :

SPECIFICATION​

• 26AWG 4Wires
• Selected Premium UP-OCC Material
• Gold Plated Silver / Gold Plated Silver Gold Alloy Hybrid
• Septuplet Core Bundle Litz
• Multi-Sized Stranding
• EA Ultra Flexi™ Insulation
• Superior PSquared/P-EA Plug with Titanium Casing
• Titanium Shelled ConX Interchangeable Connector

Absolutely no mention of resistance, inductance or anything else that could possibly affect an IEMs sound.

You can estimate based on gauges and at least come up with a delta between materials.

For 24-26 awg the differences between copper and silver are on the order of about ~0.005 ohms for typical iem cable length at the worst case scenario of 20 kHz. That's for the artificially dominant case of a solid single wire... Litz and insulated cable strands will remove even that.

In practice, actual cable impedance is dominated by connectors and any other transition and is still way below amp impedance.

Linum also provide impedance specs for their quite nice cables. They and 64audio are the only ones I've come across...

 

[F208Frank]

Whats the best cable to pair with a18t these days?

It used to be the 1950s or first times from pw, any suggestions?

 

[drftr]

Whats the best cable to pair with a18t these days?

It used to be the 1950s or first times from pw, any suggestions?

I think the shielded PW Audio Orpheus is the best combination used by members here. But then you're talking 8 grand or so for the cable.

drftr

 

[F208Frank]

I think the shielded PW Audio Orpheus is the best combination used by members here. But then you're talking 8 grand or so for the cable.

drftr

Do you guys personally feel any difference between shielded and non shield versions? Not Orpheus specifically but other models such as first times or 1950s.