[Neweymatt]

Anyone know if there’s ever a discount on u12t’s? Black Friday or if any dealers tend to discount if asked in private…

It seems I need a pair…

There was a Black Friday sale on B-Stock last year, but you'd have to get @64Audio to confirm if they'll do the same this year.

As far as dealers go, I guess that depends on your relationship with them

 

[Neweymatt]

DAPs shouldn’t make much of a difference especially with 64’s LID.

True, LID does remove source output impedance from the equation, which is a great feature. But you will still hear differences from different DAC implementations, OEM chips etc, as well as any other DSP magic the respective vendor uses.

 

[mico1964]

For the fellow 64 audio IEM owners, do you guys feel that DAPS made more of an improvement to your IEMs or the aftermarket IEM cable?

(not being sarcastic in case anyone thinks I am trying to be funny, serious question)

Sound quality (in my experience):

45% IEMs
25% Eartips
15% Cable
15% Source

Almost a copy and paste from drftr's post…

 

[GrBm]

True, LID does remove source output impedance from the equation, which is a great feature. But you will still hear differences from different DAC implementations, OEM chips etc, as well as any other DSP magic the respective vendor uses.

This is true. But I wouldn’t think there’d be enough of a difference between any two DAPs of similar cost and quality to make sound quality a deciding factor.

I know plenty of people are going to argue with that and plenty more agree. That’s probably something you’ll have to decide for yourself since manufacturers don’t supply enough data for this to be much more than opinions. Again, I’m only talking about differences between DAPs that directly compete with each other, not a $500 DAP v. one for $2,000.

 

[Neweymatt]

Sound quality (in my experience):

45% IEMs
25% Eartips
15% Cable
15% Source

Almost a copy and paste from drftr's post…

Of course if you have CIEM you can remove tips as a factor, one thing I'm really appreciating about the a12t.

Related to this is a great new video from Lachlan/Passion for Sound:


TL;DR is that your own ear anatomy also matters, and will affect how you perceive a UIEM. Again, CIEM will ensure you are hearing the tuning pretty much exactly how the manufacturer intended.

If I do get another TOTL it's almost certainly going to something I can get custom, the benefits are too great to ignore imho. I'm not into the buying-and-flipping part of the hobby anyway, so for the right tuning and features I'm happy to commit long term.

 

[F208Frank]

My experience is that cable upgrades can improve the sound but it’s not a significant improvement.
But upgrading the source (DAP) can bring significant improvements.

Case in point: I have cable upgrades for 2 IEMS (not 64 Audio) and my Focal headphones, all with 4.4mm balanced connectors.
Yes there was an improvement. It wasn’t huge and IMO maybe not enough to justify the cost of the cable upgrades.
But I was also going from single ended to balanced on my DAP. Was the improvement from the cables or the balanced connection? I don’t know.
However, I later upgraded my DAP to a Chord Hugo2/2Go (Not exactly a DAP but close enough?)
The Hugo2 only has single ended outputs so I had to revert to the stock cables.
The improvement in all aspects of sound quality was massive. Significantly more than I’d experienced with cable upgrades. Thus I feel no desire to upgrade the cable for my u18s.

I appreciate there are many variables here and it’s hardly a ”scientific” comparison.
But my experience leads me to think your money may be better spent on a source upgrade before a cable upgrade.

Edit: In thinking about my post I realized I compared an upgrade of several hundred dollars (cable) to an upgrade of several thousand dollars (DAP).
So let me change my opinion to:
$1000+ investment - Source/DAP
<$1000 investment - Cable or save your money for a source upgrade

Thanks for that very thoughtful reply, appreciate you bud.

 

[maceto]

Thanks for that very thoughtful reply, appreciate you bud.

I can’t imagine going from a 200 dollar cable to a 3000 dollar cable is going to make more difference than asking 2000 people to blind taste various types of cola. Now a 10 dollar cable and a 1000 sure. They are both able to deliver the same frequencies and response according to measurements, but I can see some frequencies possibly traveling faster under some conditions.

 

[drftr]

I can’t imagine going from a 200 dollar cable to a 3000 dollar cable is going to make more difference than asking 2000 people to blind taste various types of cola. Now a 10 dollar cable and a 1000 sure. They are both able to deliver the same frequencies and response according to measurements, but I can see some frequencies possibly traveling faster under some conditions.

A great cable can deliver an awesome extra amount of dynamics that makes you think they must have replaced your 5 Watt amp with a 100 Watt amp. Example: 2 weeks ago I compared a 1k cable with a 2k cable of the exact same brand, and while the tonality didn't change too much, the level of detail and especially imaging and dynamics were suddenly in a whole different league. Mind you, the "cheaper" cable will do just fine and is great all by itself, but once you compare - oh boy...

That's why I gave cables an equal percentage as DAPs. And like you said it's not fair to look
at price extremes for this, but perhaps compare $500 with $1,000 or $1,000 with $2,000 and you're in for some good surprises. Again, none of these steps are essential from the start, but they provide a growth path for years to come. Obviously, the better your components the more of those differences will come through.

drftr

 

[AboveNBeyond]

Edit: In thinking about my post I realized I compared an upgrade of several hundred dollars (cable) to an upgrade of several thousand dollars (DAP).
So let me change my opinion to:
$1000+ investment - Source/DAP
<$1000 investment - Cable or save your money for a source upgrade

Well you could also go for 1000$ dap upgrade from a 500$ one or 4000$ cable upgrade from a 250$ one and dap still would probably give you more perceived upgrade.

 

[el-jorge]

True, LID does remove source output impedance from the equation, which is a great feature. But you will still hear differences from different DAC implementations, OEM chips etc, as well as any other DSP magic the respective vendor uses.

Would this mean, there is nog big difference between let's say an iPhone (14 pro) and a DAP?

A few months ago I did a quick shootout. But I could hear enough differences between my current Hiby R6 2020 and a Fiio M11 plus ESS. I tested those with the Tia Trio. I came to the conclusion I didn't have the need to buy the Fiio, because I really like the sound with the Hiby. I still need to try the Trio on a phone. So can't say anything about that.

55% IEMs
20% Eartips
20% Source
5% Cable

A small remark about the eartips. IMHO, they can't make a bad IEM sound good, but they can make good iem sound bad.

 

[MistahBungle]

For the fellow 64 audio IEM owners, do you guys feel that DAPS made more of an improvement to your IEMs or the aftermarket IEM cable?

(not being sarcastic in case anyone thinks I am trying to be funny, serious question)

Easily the DAP. Cables aren't even in the same postcode for me compared to a DAP.

 

[SamTan]

A great cable can deliver an awesome extra amount of dynamics that makes you think they must have replaced your 5 Watt amp with a 100 Watt amp. Example: 2 weeks ago I compared a 1k cable with a 2k cable of the exact same brand, and while the tonality didn't change too much, the level of detail and especially imaging and dynamics were suddenly in a whole different league. Mind you, the "cheaper" cable will do just fine and is great all by itself, but once you compare - oh boy...

That's why I gave cables an equal percentage as DAPs. And like you said it's not fair to look
at price extremes for this, but perhaps compare $500 with $1,000 or $1,000 with $2,000 and you're in for some good surprises. Again, none of these steps are essential from the start, but they provide a growth path for years to come. Obviously, the better your components the more of those differences will come through.

drftr

For the Trio that I bought very recently on 26-Oct-22, I am using the stock 3.5 mm single-ended cable for the first week or two. It's for sort of letting my ears get used to the sound (which I adore btw!). After that, I shall use my Monarch MKII's 4.4 mm balanced cable (about $89) with the Trio to try and see if I can hear differences/improvements in the sound. My limited experience and gut feeling tell me that the balanced cable will make a difference (for the better), but l shall confirm here after actual usage. If I hear an actual difference, I shall buy a separate balanced cable for the Trio (costing approx. $90).

I cannot comment on the expensive cables that cost > $500 as I have never used them.

 

[drftr]

For the Trio that I bought very recently on 26-Oct-22, I am using the stock 3.5 mm single-ended cable for the first week or two. It's for sort of letting my ears get used to the sound (which I adore btw!). After that, I shall use my Monarch MKII's 4.4 mm balanced cable (about $89) with the Trio to try and see if I can hear differences/improvements in the sound. My limited experience and gut feeling tell me that the balanced cable will make a difference (for the better), but l shall confirm here after actual usage. If I hear an actual difference, I shall buy a separate balanced cable for the Trio (costing approx. $90).

I cannot comment on the expensive cables that cost > $500 as I have never used them.

I don't think such a comparison would work as you'd have more than 1 variable: 1) the cable, and 2) the balanced stage of your amp/DAP/whatever. So if the balanced cable is worse but the balanced output stage much much better then you'd think it's because of the cable, which is not the case.

drftr

 

[SamTan]

I don't think such a comparison would work as you'd have more than 1 variable: 1) the cable, and 2) the balanced stage of your amp/DAP/whatever. So if the balanced cable is worse but the balanced output stage much much better then you'd think it's because of the cable, which is not the case.

drftr

Yes, you’re right about that. I have understood what you’re saying.

What I can do is that after using the Monarch MKII’s balanced cable for a week or two, if I like the balanced sound (which I think I will), I can buy another balanced cable like say the Kinera Leyding (or a more expansive one if I’m feeling rich ) and then see if there is a perceivable difference between the Monarch’s cable and the other balanced one.

 

[Neweymatt]

Would this mean, there is nog big difference between let's say an iPhone (14 pro) and a DAP?

A few months ago I did a quick shootout. But I could hear enough differences between my current Hiby R6 2020 and a Fiio M11 plus ESS. I tested those with the Tia Trio. I came to the conclusion I didn't have the need to buy the Fiio, because I really like the sound with the Hiby. I still need to try the Trio on a phone. So can't say anything about that.

55% IEMs
20% Eartips
20% Source
5% Cable

A small remark about the eartips. IMHO, they can't make a bad IEM sound good, but they can make good iem sound bad.

Just the opposite actually, maybe I was not clear in my previous wording. All I meant was that with LID the OI of the DAP won’t be a factor, but the colouring of the DAC implementation and any DSP that DAP maker implement definitely will.

As you say, the apple dongle is ok especially if its the only thing you have with you. But a $500 DAP or desktop DAC/amp sound much better with either of my 64 IEMs.