[drftr]

But, again, if you liked the N8

Not enough to be wanting it.

Why not try the Trio?

Much too bassy for me. Thoroughly musical though.

drftr

 

[ciregreg]

• Recently I settled on 64 Audio’s Tia Fourte as my favorite IEM. Over many months I have read the reviews of this IEM as having a "wonky" frequency response. So I thought to myself, let me try these and see what all the fuss is about. I came away from that experience perplexed because these IEMs are the best that I've ever heard. I've tried many. My confusion is based on the fact that I believe that most people that have reviewed these and come away with a less-than-stellar response to them appear to be offering their opinions in good faith. So how is it that I have had such a different experience and why are these IEMs so polarizing? I’ve come to the conclusion, which may be obvious to many, that while we may have more similarities than differences in the way we hear, when it comes to critical listening we differ perhaps dramatically. For me, I am 66 years old and I know, without a doubt, that my hearing is different than what it was 20 or even 10 years ago. In particular, I appreciate the fact that my hearing in the high-frequency range has diminished rather substantially over the years. At the same time, my love for the pure sound of cymbals and the realistic air surrounding instruments that makes one think they are listening to live performing musicians has not. This is where the Fourtes seem to have no equal in my experience. Granted that same presentation may not appeal to bass heads and the Fourte’s cannot be characterized as a bass head’s dream IEM in my view. This is all to say that there is no one size fits all in this hobby and it is probably wise to take all of those good faith reviews of this product and others with a grain of salt. Indeed, I fondly remember the days when amplifiers without tone controls were unthinkable and, within limits, you could shape the sound of your speakers to sound however you liked. Just the presence of those controls seemed to be an acknowledgment that we all have different preferences when it comes to music and there is often a need to compensate for the sound depending on our components. Why should it be any different for headphones or IEMs? Back then we didn’t worry about Harman curves or convolution filters and it was recognized and accepted that there was no such thing as one size fits all. So rather than approach reviews of whether the product is good or bad as judged against some illusion of universal perfection, it might be better to think about what is perfect or close to it for you. It might be good to start celebrating our differences again as one of the things that makes this hobby, and perhaps life, fascinating and infinitely enjoyable. It might also be good for manufacturers to make tone controls a common feature in amps again. iFi has the right idea with its xBass. It just doesn't go far enough in my opinion.

 

[maceto]

• Recently I settled on 64 Audio’s Tia Fourte as my favorite IEM. Over many months I have read the reviews of this IEM as having a "wonky" frequency response. So I thought to myself, let me try these and see what all the fuss is about. I came away from that experience perplexed because these IEMs are the best that I've ever heard. I've tried many. My confusion is based on the fact that I believe that most people that have reviewed these and come away with a less-than-stellar response to them appear to be offering their opinions in good faith. So how is it that I have had such a different experience and why are these IEMs so polarizing? I’ve come to the conclusion, which may be obvious to many, that while we may have more similarities than differences in the way we hear, when it comes to critical listening we differ perhaps dramatically. For me, I am 66 years old and I know, without a doubt, that my hearing is different than what it was 20 or even 10 years ago. In particular, I appreciate the fact that my hearing in the high-frequency range has diminished rather substantially over the years. At the same time, my love for the pure sound of cymbals and the realistic air surrounding instruments that makes one think they are listening to live performing musicians has not. This is where the Fourtes seem to have no equal in my experience. Granted that same presentation may not appeal to bass heads and the Fourte’s cannot be characterized as a bass head’s dream IEM in my view. This is all to say that there is no one size fits all in this hobby and it is probably wise to take all of those good faith reviews of this product and others with a grain of salt. Indeed, I fondly remember the days when amplifiers without tone controls were unthinkable and, within limits, you could shape the sound of your speakers to sound however you liked. Just the presence of those controls seemed to be an acknowledgment that we all have different preferences when it comes to music and there is often a need to compensate for the sound depending on our components. Why should it be any different for headphones or IEMs? Back then we didn’t worry about Harman curves or convolution filters and it was recognized and accepted that there was no such thing as one size fits all. So rather than approach reviews of whether the product is good or bad as judged against some illusion of universal perfection, it might be better to think about what is perfect or close to it for you. It might be good to start celebrating our differences again as one of the things that makes this hobby, and perhaps life, fascinating and infinitely enjoyable. It might also be good for manufacturers to make tone controls a common feature in amps again. iFi has the right idea with its xBass. It just doesn't go far enough in my opinion.

Age/hearing and how many products you’ve listened to and what source you’re using and the songs you’re listening to also matters. If we’re to hold professional reviewers “accountable” they should all post their results of a hearing test, the products they own etc. only then will you start to find a baseline we can use for real measurement. And when baseline is equal… but opinions differ we need to dig deeper and find what could be the possible causes.

I don’t have time to go and listen or watch what I buy - I’ll have to trust someone… reading and watching audio reviews is like asking a women what the horoscope said today… there used to be some videos of headphones placed on special microphones and it gave me a sense of tuning - that was a BIG step up. I know it’s obviously colored by what I use to listen to these recordings, but I could clearly tell the difference between a clear vs a dark headphone and how the bass slammed.

 

[GrBm]

Age/hearing and how many products you’ve listened to and what source you’re using and the songs you’re listening to also matters. If we’re to hold professional reviewers “accountable” they should all post their results of a hearing test, the products they own etc. only then will you start to find a baseline we can use for real measurement. And when baseline is equal… but opinions differ we need to dig deeper and find what could be the possible causes.

I don’t have time to go and listen or watch what I buy - I’ll have to trust someone… reading and watching audio reviews is like asking a women what the horoscope said today… there used to be some videos of headphones placed on special microphones and it gave me a sense of tuning - that was a BIG step up. I know it’s obviously colored by what I use to listen to these recordings, but I could clearly tell the difference between a clear vs a dark headphone and how the bass slammed.

Yeah,… those pesky psychoacoustics, psychology and who knows what all. Confirmation bias (which falls under “psychology”)also appears to be rampant . I find it kind of odd how few appear to be aware that their expectations can shape their perception, at least in certain areas of this hobby I won’t name (I don’t want to start a fire storm).

But really, psychology plays an outsized rule in reviews and peoples opinions/perceptions. It’s nice when you get reviews who are aware of all of the above and make a point not to know anything about a product before forming an opinion. At least most realize that their perception of sound signatures is, at first, effected by whatever they where listening to before the review unit and live with it for at least a couple weeks before finalizing reviews. Small favors.

 

[maceto]

Yeah,… those pesky psychoacoustics, psychology and who knows what all. Confirmation bias (which falls under “psychology”)also appears to be rampant . I find it kind of odd how few appear to be aware that their expectations can shape their perception, at least in certain areas of this hobby I won’t name (I don’t want to start a fire storm).

But really, psychology plays an outsized rule in reviews and peoples opinions/perceptions. It’s nice when you get reviews who are aware of all of the above and make a point not to know anything about a product before forming an opinion. At least most realize that their perception of sound signatures is, at first, effected by whatever they where listening to before the review unit and live with it for at least a couple weeks before finalizing reviews. Small favors.

I don’t care what anyone thinks of me - fb once banned me permanently and I am in fb jail as we speak under my new account. If I am right I am right and while I have a political leaning - facts are facts. Everything else are speculations. (I am what they consider left - but Europe left)

The most expensive audio equipment I have now is mojo2 and sure 846. It’s been 25 years since I had a 20K audio system in my house. My take on headphones and how they would sound would be a joke if I were to review them now - as I don’t a) have 30 others to compare them to and as a result all I try would sound better than what I have now.

I’d love to start a firestorm as I could literally make most of the reviewers have to admit they are a joke as well as the ones who claim that pure measurements is the way to go.

I can measure things I can’t hear - like latency in the milliseconds and jitter but if my hearing suck does it matter? What’s the methodology? What’s the standard? Do we have a reference group to measure against? Teenagers vs old folks like me?

I am on the fence about cables…why? I think I can pull more women and feel confident wearing my Valentino shoes, but is it my shoes or my confidence from thinking my expensive shoes matter that makes me pull more women? Again one person or two saying a cable matter and others say it’s not… prove it!

There’s no measurements or tests that’s perfect - but what we have now is no better than talking to Mr. Wilson over the fence and hearing what he has to say (if you know the reference).

You have to test the IEM’s on at least 10 sources and cables and provide a scale/measurements. Then you can do an average score or something. It’s completely random now and to me little better than asking Mary who just started in the marketing team to write a white paper on how beavers impact structural engineering (I just made that up…)

 

[zeroshiki]

Fourte is my first love to high end iem. Others may come and go, but fourte stays. It connects me to music like no other iems. I love it so much recently i updated my old fourte from 2017(a pre loved set i got) for a brand new set with the new logo. Had both at the same time at a point. The new one seems to have a warmer tuning.. Or maybe its just havent burned in yet.

 

[Frankie D]

• Recently I settled on 64 Audio’s Tia Fourte as my favorite IEM. Over many months I have read the reviews of this IEM as having a "wonky" frequency response. So I thought to myself, let me try these and see what all the fuss is about. I came away from that experience perplexed because these IEMs are the best that I've ever heard. I've tried many. My confusion is based on the fact that I believe that most people that have reviewed these and come away with a less-than-stellar response to them appear to be offering their opinions in good faith. So how is it that I have had such a different experience and why are these IEMs so polarizing? I’ve come to the conclusion, which may be obvious to many, that while we may have more similarities than differences in the way we hear, when it comes to critical listening we differ perhaps dramatically. For me, I am 66 years old and I know, without a doubt, that my hearing is different than what it was 20 or even 10 years ago. In particular, I appreciate the fact that my hearing in the high-frequency range has diminished rather substantially over the years. At the same time, my love for the pure sound of cymbals and the realistic air surrounding instruments that makes one think they are listening to live performing musicians has not. This is where the Fourtes seem to have no equal in my experience. Granted that same presentation may not appeal to bass heads and the Fourte’s cannot be characterized as a bass head’s dream IEM in my view. This is all to say that there is no one size fits all in this hobby and it is probably wise to take all of those good faith reviews of this product and others with a grain of salt. Indeed, I fondly remember the days when amplifiers without tone controls were unthinkable and, within limits, you could shape the sound of your speakers to sound however you liked. Just the presence of those controls seemed to be an acknowledgment that we all have different preferences when it comes to music and there is often a need to compensate for the sound depending on our components. Why should it be any different for headphones or IEMs? Back then we didn’t worry about Harman curves or convolution filters and it was recognized and accepted that there was no such thing as one size fits all. So rather than approach reviews of whether the product is good or bad as judged against some illusion of universal perfection, it might be better to think about what is perfect or close to it for you. It might be good to start celebrating our differences again as one of the things that makes this hobby, and perhaps life, fascinating and infinitely enjoyable. It might also be good for manufacturers to make tone controls a common feature in amps again. iFi has the right idea with its xBass. It just doesn't go far enough in my opinion.

I see you also own the 12t. The Foute and 12t are my two favorite 64 Audio IEMs. To get more bass out of the Fourte you might see if the Azla SednaEarfitLight Shorts are comfortable for you. They will allow more bass to be heard.

While the Fourte is a great IEM, its mids are not the best. For comparison, if you have access to a Traillii ( or Jewel for example ) compare both. If your ears are anything like mine, the difference in timbre will be shocking and you will see what some mean about the quality of the mids and even the added detail in the bass. If you should still prefer the Fourte, even better for you.

 

[ciregreg]

I see you also own the 12t. The Foute and 12t are my two favorite 64 Audio IEMs. To get more bass out of the Fourte you might see if the Azla SednaEarfitLight Shorts are comfortable for you. They will allow more bass to be heard.

While the Fourte is a great IEM, its mids are not the best. For comparison, if you have access to a Traillii ( or Jewel for example ) compare both. If your ears are anything like mine, the difference in timbre will be shocking and you will see what some mean about the quality of the mids and even the added detail in the bass. If you should still prefer the Fourte, even better for you.

I would like to try out the Traillii, but that price . . . It was hard for me to wrap my head around the Fourte's and I only pulled the trigger because I found a good deal on a used one. I tried Azla Senda Earlift Crystal and didn't like them but perhaps the Shorts would be better. I have been using Comply foams and I really like what they do to the bass. On other IEMs I didn't like them because they attenuate the treble too much. But not on the Fourtes. If anything, they smooth the treble out.

 

[Frankie D]

I would like to try out the Traillii, but that price . . . It was hard for me to wrap my head around the Fourte's and I only pulled the trigger because I found a good deal on a used one. I tried Azla Senda Earlift Crystal and didn't like them but perhaps the Shorts would be better. I have been using Comply foams and I really like what they do to the bass. On other IEMs I didn't like them because they attenuate the treble too much. But not on the Fourtes. If anything, they smooth the treble out.

Yes, the Fourte is a treble machine. It is also very good at letting you hear the differences in cables, so they might be another way to tweak them if you wish.

The Sedna light shorts I previously mentioned are wide bore tips, so the bass may increase for you. Also good to have an inventory of some different tips. Tks.

 

[ciregreg]

Yes, the Fourte is a treble machine. It is also very good at letting you hear the differences in cables, so they might be another way to tweak them if you wish.

The Sedna light shorts I previously mentioned are wide bore tips, so the bass may increase for you. Also good to have an inventory of some different tips. Tks.

What would you recommend by way of cables for the Fourte?

 

[Frankie D]

What would you recommend by way of cables for the Fourte?

The Leo 2, PW 1950’s if you want to work on the treble a bit and hear the bass to its fullest. I also use the EA Horus on it as it is light and the bass come through with great detail and clarity. Unfortunately the treble also come shining through. Best bang for the buck would be the Leo 2 in my opinion. You can contact Dr Juggles also for a good copper cable to go with it.

 

[drftr]

The Leo 2, PW 1950’s if you want to work on the treble a bit and hear the bass to its fullest. I also use the EA Horus on it as it is light and the bass come through with great detail and clarity. Unfortunately the treble also come shining through. Best bang for the buck would be the Leo 2 in my opinion. You can contact Dr Juggles also for a good copper cable to go with it.

I found the cable to roll off treble best while adding to lows and mids in a fantastic way to be the PlusSound X8 TriCopper. It's a baby 1950s for a much much better price but with attenuating treble even more without becoming unrealistic. Great build as well. Doesn't work with all IEMs but I think the Fourté and possibly the Trio would be good candidates.

drftr

 

[el-jorge]

+1 for both Symbio F’s and the Xelastics
Symbio F has a starter pack with different sizes that is pretty neat- I can use L size but in fact have asymmetric ear canals so I love this option L on Right M on Left. I found with the stock foam tips I was losing too much bass impact (i prefer the MX module but those ones take it TOO far). Symbio Fs are by far the most comfortable of all the foams I’ve tried.

Xelastics are as described. After a while they soften and then sort of conform to the shape of the inner concha so provide a good seal without losing bass - this has been my favorite tip with some iems (EE LX) but not so much for U12T- as the nozzle seems to touch the skin of the concha unless I twist the IEM around to just the right orientation which is difficult to maintain. Then also, after using the same Xelastics for a long time, they get too floppy and start to actually cover the nozzle when in my ear unless I’m very careful. Supposedly one can get them to return to their original shape by immersing them in boiling hot water briefly. I have tried this and it works —somewhat— not entirely. Of course, one can change to a new tip set, but it then takes a while for the Xelastics to soften up and provide that great fit. Symbio Fs have none of this problem so have become my preferred tip for the U12T.

It's funny, that's what I've been using, Symbio F, L on the right and M on the left. Actually my right ear canal is narrower, so I think the L works because it must be covering the ear canal rather than going inside it.

But it's still not a perfect fit. I have a bit less isolation on the right than the left. I am experimenting with different tips (only foam) to see if I can get a better fit, but I wonder if this is common, to have one or both ears with an imperfect fit, and you just decide to live with it and continue using the IEMs rather than switch to another pair....? In a relatively quiet room it doesn't seem to matter much at all, it sounds good. On a noisy train it does matter because I can indeed hear the outside noise more in the right ear and it can create an imbalance. Basically though I find the sound of the U12t so excellent that I'm going to stick with them regardless, even if it means just using them in quieter places.

This is something I posted on the Effect Audio board, but you can see I use Symbio F on my Trio. I’m a bit sensitive to highs and I find that these tips really help to remove the feisty zing that you can get from the Trio’s treble.

Tip rolling is not my favorite hobby. But I'm doing it a lot. Now I mainly use.

Spiral Dot++ size ML
Xelastec, size MS

I also tried, Azla earfit light short, Spinfit size M, Symbio W size M, and complies. Complies are horrible, great comfort, but ruining the sound.

My ears have (probably) different sizes. So the Spirat Dot, they fit really good, but after a while (30min) my right ears are painfull. The xelastec are comfortable. But get pushed out of my ears, again the right ear sooner than left. I now use the Spiral Dot on the left and the Xelastec on the right . It works... a bit.

So maybe I should try the Symbio F foam. But what size, or size package?

 

[drftr]

Tip rolling is not my favorite hobby. But I'm doing it a lot. Now I mainly use.

Spiral Dot++ size ML
Xelastec, size MS

I also tried, Azla earfit light short, Spinfit size M, Symbio W size M, and complies. Complies are horrible, great comfort, but ruining the sound.

My ears have (probably) different sizes. So the Spirat Dot, they fit really good, but after a while (30min) my right ears are painfull. The xelastec are comfortable. But get pushed out of my ears, again the right ear sooner than left. I now use the Spiral Dot on the left and the Xelastec on the right . It works... a bit.

So maybe I should try the Symbio F foam. But what size, or size package?

FWIW, I find the Symbio F foams also ruin the sound. But again, FWIW as many seem to like them.

drftr

 

[Deferenz]

Tip rolling is not my favorite hobby. But I'm doing it a lot. Now I mainly use.

Spiral Dot++ size ML
Xelastec, size MS

I also tried, Azla earfit light short, Spinfit size M, Symbio W size M, and complies. Complies are horrible, great comfort, but ruining the sound.

My ears have (probably) different sizes. So the Spirat Dot, they fit really good, but after a while (30min) my right ears are painfull. The xelastec are comfortable. But get pushed out of my ears, again the right ear sooner than left. I now use the Spiral Dot on the left and the Xelastec on the right . It works... a bit.

So maybe I should try the Symbio F foam. But what size, or size package?

I also have one ear slightly bigger than the other and so with Sedna earfit lights & crystals I use ML on the left and L on the right. It’s different with the Symbio F though. As they are foam I find that I can use the same size for both ears as the foam will just expand to the shape I need.