[Blackmore]

Agree
 
Quote:

   
For music.. Indeed acoustic , non amplified instruments are the best to evaluate the fidely but Electronic music are really a good test for audio equipment. some EDM ( for example what I linked a few post above) use massively small sounds , complex sound textures, sub bass sutleties, ambiances, layering.  if those subtleties are not perfectly reproduced , the music lose all its savour.
 
Classical and Electronic are the two music I definitely can't listen with average headphones. 

 

[zilch0md]

Hi kayandjohn,
 

  Good Portable Amp or DAC/Amp for HD 800?
 
I'm very satisfied with my HD 800 driven by the HDVD 800, but I want to approach that wonderful sound in something more portable.
 
I started by considering the HiFiMAN HE-500, then found I MUCH preferred the HE-560, but didn't want to spend $900.
 
So now I am considering amps in the HE-500 price range (i.e. $500) that work well with the HD 800... or maybe DAC/amp even better.  So that is buying a portable (DAC) / amp rather than a new headphone, and using my HD 800.
 
Here are candidates I got from searching this thread... any comments or additions?
 

1. Geek Out 1000
2. Chord Hugo (WAYYYYY too expensive... drop)
3. Fostex HP P1
4. CEntrance HiFi M8
5. Something from Ray Samuels (e.g., Raptor?)
6. Aune S16
7. Carat Topaz
8. Cayin C5.

 
Thoughts?
 
Thanks!

 

I have tried the Meier Quickstep with HD800, was not happy with the sound. Sounded lean. I have also tried the Classic with HD800, too neutral for my liking, mids lacked some weight & bodyIMO.

 
 

^ Oh that sounds disappointing. I will look out for this when I get round to hooking up my Classic. Meier does indeed make neutrality one of his primary design goals I understand...

 
 
When talking about the Stepdance or the newer Quickstep, it's all about the source because these Meier offerings are intensely neutral and transparent - they are practically invisible. I'm not kidding when I say that of all the desktop and portable amps I've owned, the Meier Stepdance remains my personal benchmark for neutrality and transparency.  It's every bit as excruciatingly revealing and unforgiving as the HD800. They are birds of a feather, truly. When you put an amp like the Meier Stepdance in front of a headphone like the HD800, the recording and the DAC are laid out naked before you.
 
I personally find the Line Out from my FiiO X5's PCM1792A DAC to be far superior to any other portable source I've used with the Stepdance > HD800, having none of the fatiguing "Sabre glare" I can hear with various ESS9023 and ESS9018 implementations I've tried, including the Audioquest Dragonfly (v1), the JDS Labs ODAC, the Stoner Acoustics UD100. To be fair, perhaps the best I've ESS implementation I've owned is the ESS9023 magic of the Resonessence Concero, but it's not "portable" (and neither is the ES9018-2M and amp-equipped Concero HP - which I've never heard, but gets high praise for use with the HD800). 
 
Another portable DAC option for use with the Meier QuickStep > HD800, for those who want a warmer, thicker signature that will thoroughly corrupt the strengths of both the amp and the headphone, is the TDA1543-based, 9V-battery powered, portable non-oversampling DAC called "The Battery DAC," as sold on eBay by a fellow in Paris, France:   
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Non-Oversampling-NOS-DAC-TDA1543-DIR9001-SPDIF-Coax-Optical-dual-9V-NiMH-w-charg-/201003880227
 
Warning:  This thing is not recommended for those who have an affection for micro-details and a neutral frequency response. It literally butchers the HD800's best traits, but I'm utterly in love with the way it sounds - the HD800 reveals all, as usual, and this critter has a lot of "desirable" harmonic distortion, but I prefer using the HD800 with this DAC, to any other headphone.  If you want every song in your library to bring out an emotional response...  If you want to just have fun listening to music... If you want to everything to sound organic and natural, with absolutely no digititis, no fatigue... If you struggle with analyizing your music instead of just listening to it...  get this DAC. (Note that you'll have to drive it with either a Coaxial or Optical input - I use the Coax Out from my FiiO X5.)  
 
My Metrum Octave MkII desktop NOS DAC is far more refined than "The Battery DAC," somewhat splitting the difference between it and an oversampling DAC like the ESS9018 of the HA-1, but for portable use, I really like keeping "The Battery DAC" on hand, as I can always switch between using it and the FiiO X5's excellent PCM1792A Line Out to drive the 15V-powered Stepdance > HD800.
 

Spoiler: More info on the Meier portables...

In Skylab's series of portable amp reviews, a few years back, he wrote that the Stepdance "is almost too neutral."  For a long while, the Meier Stepdance was the only portable amp listed in his profile. Keep in mind that he has a taste for tube gear (Lebens with Audeze, etc. and vintage solid state gear), but I consider his reviews to be dead on, as I've never bought anything that didn't sound just as he had described it. Even his relatively recent innerfidelity.com review of the OPPO HA-1 nails it when he hints that it's not a good solution for the HD800 - even though he never actually names the HD800 in the statement to which I'm referring.
 
The QuickStep is much like the discontinued 2Stepdance and the Stepdance before it, but has a smaller case that's flat instead of rounded (better for stacking), has a longer battery life (using more efficient OPA209s instead of OPA1611s), has more durable TRS jacks and a front-mounted gain switch instead of PCB-mounted in the 9V battery compartment.
 
Both the QuickStep and its older siblings are really quite sophisticated, having a 32-step digital volume control and Meier's unique "Active Balance" technology, where he emulates balanced output on a single-ended TRS output, by actively cancelling (nulling) the impedance fluctuations generated by each driver so that they are not "felt" by the opposite driver - despite the common ground.  Very clever - no balanced cables required.  
 
Add to this the fact that these Meier portables can be made to swing nearly 30V at the rails (+/- 15V) by increasing their supply voltage, with the use of an external power supply or battery pack.  They can handle up to a 15VDC supply voltage, which remarkably, not only increases the output power to your headphones, but also reduces THD+N figures.  Datasheets for either the OPA1611 or OPA209 show that these op-amps can function with supply voltages much lower than the 9V supplied by these amp's internal batteries, but THD+N improves as you increase the supply voltage to 15V, where it peaks, then starts to taper if you increase the supply voltage to the maximum of 18V (which would exceed Meier's max. of 15V, anyway - there are other circuits inside the Meier that can't handle more than 15V.)
 
So the hot tip with the Meier portables is to improve bass control and extension, as well as dynamics by increasing the power output while also minimizing THD+N - by using a portable Li-Ion battery pack and an inline voltage regulator (to maintain a constant 15V supply to the amp, as the battery pack decays from 23V to 15V with use.)   
 
See http://tinyurl.com/k3yrrk6 and http://tinyurl.com/lwejmp7 for more information about 15V portable power.

 
Lastly, outside of using the Meier Stepdance or Quickstep with the HD800, I find the ESS9018-K2M equipped OPPO HA-2 portable DAC/amp to be surprisingly satisfying with the HD800 for no longer than an hour at a sitting. I use the HA-2 with the low gain setting (again, surprisingly, with the HD800) and without the Bass+ boost feature, but for extended listening, the HA-2's Sabre DAC wears me down, with my ears getting fatigued after a while, compared to the PCM1792A DAC of the FiiO X5 - which is seriously marvelous (but I have no love for the FiiO X5's amp section.)
 
I should also mention that the LH Labs Geek Out USB-powered DAC/amp has a big following for HD800 users, but I've not heard it yet.  It uses the same DAC as the OPPO HA-2, but can produce a lot more power, in its stronger variants. I personally don't think the extra power is really needed for the HD800, going by how much punch and control I hear with the OPPO HA-2.  Head-Fi member jazzfan uses a Geek Out 450 > HD800, driven by his iPhone > CCK, and powered by an Anker 5VDC battery pack on a USB Y-cable. The Geek Out gets its power from the portable 5V battery pack while getting data from the iPhone > CCK cable.  It's an ungainly package for portable use, but I'm a big believer in putting sound quality ahead of convenience and would really like to hear this rig.
 
Mike

 

[shabta]

   
Thanks for explaining this - makes perfect sense to me now!  I have yet to hear a BCL but would be very interested to do so now that I better understand the design.  
 
Also, x2 on your comment about the hd800's being ideally suited for enjoying high quality, unprocessed, recordings of live instruments and voices, where the realism and natural timbre are able to come through.  Although I still listen to contemporary music (mostly via spotify), my music purchasing took a sharp left turn when I bought these headphones and is now 95% choral. classical, jazz, bluegrass and blues.  Picking up something like the decca sound box set and a handful of LFF's jazz recommendations is sort of a must for hd800 owners, IMO, to hear what these amazing phones can really do.   

I have had the same experience of great gear changing the kind of music I listen to. 

 

[Sorrodje]

   
these Meier offerings are intensely neutral and transparent - they are practically invisible.
 

 
You nailed it. Everyone who are after this kind of "intensively neutral and transparent" should give a try to what Jan Meier offers. 
 
But the "intensively" is the issue here.  if we feel ( and I feel it too) that the gear is intensively transparent, there's something wrong : as if the gear washed a bit too much the music .  
 
I really compared the Corda Jazz and my old antique sound labs MG Head during month and I always felt that the Corda jazz was the cleanest and the most transparent of  the two amps BUT  overally the result i had with the ASL MG head was more true to real life as if musicians have a kind of real presence the Corda Jazz could not render.  Don't ask me why or how it's possible and don't even ask me to demonstrate this in a DBT but I'm affirmative and that's why I 've choosen the tube route while I overally think the Solid State route is technically better. 
 
Hope that makes sense. 

 

[Blackmore]

Cables are very crusual, for such high quality transducers as HD800 are, imo. And, I mean the whole pack, from digital to their own.

 

[ruthieandjohn]

When talking about the Stepdance or the newer Quickstep, it's all about the source because these Meier offerings are intensely neutral and transparent - they are practically invisible. I'm not kidding when I say that of all the desktop and portable amps I've owned, the Meier Stepdance remains my personal benchmark for neutrality and transparency.  It's every bit as excruciatingly revealing and unforgiving as the HD800. They are birds of a feather, truly. When you put an amp like the Meier Stepdance in front of a headphone like the HD800, the recording and the DAC are laid out naked before you.

I personally find the Line Out from my FiiO X5's PCM1792A DAC to be far superior to any other portable source I've used with the Stepdance > HD800, having none of the fatiguing "Sabre glare" I can hear with various ESS9023 and ESS9018 implementations I've tried, including the Audioquest Dragonfly (v1), the JDS Labs ODAC, the Stoner Acoustics UD100. To be fair, perhaps the best I've ESS implementation I've owned is the ESS9023 magic of the Resonessence Concero, but it's not "portable" (and neither is the ES9018-2M and amp-equipped Concero HP - which I've never heard, but gets high praise for use with

Wow, zilch0md, thanks for the MOST comprehensive information on portable amps (and source) for the HD 800. I have the X3, which also has a Line Out and a coax out as does the X5. That Quickstep sounds right on... And affordable. Thanks!

 

[zilch0md]

^ You're welcome!

 

[zilch0md]

   
You nailed it. Everyone who are after this kind of "intensively neutral and transparent" should give a try to what Jan Meier offers. 
 
But the "intensively" is the issue here.  if we feel ( and I feel it too) that the gear is intensively transparent, there's something wrong : as if the gear washed a bit too much the music .  
 
I really compared the Corda Jazz and my old antique sound labs MG Head during month and I always felt that the Corda jazz was the cleanest and the most transparent of  the two amps BUT  overally the result i had with the ASL MG head was more true to real life as if musicians have a kind of real presence the Corda Jazz could not render.  Don't ask me why or how it's possible and don't even ask me to demonstrate this in a DBT but I'm affirmative and that's why I 've choosen the tube route while I overally think the Solid State route is technically better. 
 
Hope that makes sense. 

 
Makes sense to me!  In the end, we're pretty much all looking for an experience that invokes an emotional response and I say, whatever works for you is perfectly valid.  That's why I'm so open-minded about the somewhat crude yet very enjoyable "The Battery DAC," but I wouldn't want to be caught having it as my only source.

 

[knowhatimean]

   
 
When talking about the Stepdance or the newer Quickstep, it's all about the source because these Meier offerings are intensely neutral and transparent - they are practically invisible. I'm not kidding when I say that of all the desktop and portable amps I've owned, the Meier Stepdance remains my personal benchmark for neutrality and transparency.  It's every bit as excruciatingly revealing and unforgiving as the HD800. They are birds of a feather, truly. When you put an amp like the Meier Stepdance in front of a headphone like the HD800, the recording and the DAC are laid out naked before you.
 
 
 
Mike

It was years ago, I had posted that I'd converted my 2 Stepdance to run off an external battery pack from a few suggestions that Mike had made . I don't think the HD800 even existed while I was using this "stack" (player / HP P1 w/ I think was using an AKM dac chip/ 2 Stepdance & external battery pack) but I was pretty "floored" by how good this little rig performed.
 
Now I've got to dig up this rig ! (Being an equipment "hoarder" has it's advantages occasionally) to see how this amp & battery pack works as part of a home system... Now if I could only figure out how to run it off of my Equitech 1.5Q BPT line conditioner instead of using the battery pack... or not. In any case the HD800 should sound pretty interesting w/ my Hex DAC & this amp sitting in front of it !
 
Which drawer did I put my portable stuff in is the question ??? (I hope the mice haven't eaten it) ("C#%p" I just remembered I passed it along to my nephew... Oh well it was a nice memory...It does give me a lot of interest in the Corda Classic though)

 

[punit]

  @Punit :  What's you amp of choice for your HD800 ?  Indeed the Meier gear is slightly on the lean side.  I associated the daccord with my Sonett and the Jazz with a Rega dac .. never tried the stack yet. 
 

Of all the amps i have owned the following sounded good with HD 800 to me  :
 
Level 1 (not arranged in any particular order):
Audio GD Master 9
Bottlehead Mainline
Cavalli Liquid Glass
Glenn OTL (custom made )
Woo WA22
 
Level 2:
Bottlehead Crack (with Speed ball)
 
Level 3:
Darkvoice 336i
Woo WA6
 
Edit : Haven't owned the Schiit Rag, but from the brief time i spent with it I would classify it as level 1

 

[shabta]

  Hi everyone!
I am new here in Head-Fi, Great to be here!
I am now in the hunt for a great headphone setup and i've been looking at the HD800 for some time.
I can't audition them unfortunately so i have to rely on your opinions.
I have been reading they sound a bit artificialy high res-Is it true?
Also is there an amp that can make them sound natural and "balance" them?
I thought that maybe a tube amp could "heal" them becuase i was reading that tubes make the sound smoother.
Thank you in advance!

They sound great as long as they are properly amped. That means giving them enough power, proper impedance and voltage swing. There are lots of inexpensive amps that will do that. They sound better if you use a better amp. Since this is a thread of people who like the HD800 this is not the place to find people who will tell you that they sound artificial. They do not need to be healed, tamed or fixed, IMHO. Just buy'em you won't regret it.

 

[Sorrodje]

   Just buy'em you won't regret it.

 
Can depend on the main musical genre Doritos usually listen to... 

 

[MattTCG]

  I listen mainly to Jazz. How are they with them?
I am really afraid they won't sound natural..

 
Jazz is on my playlist 50% of the time. This genre is incredible with the hd800. It won't disappoint. 

 

[shabta]

  I listen mainly to Jazz. How are they with them?
I am really afraid they won't sound natural..

Well I slightly disagree with Sorrodje, but I can understand people who don't like them with heavy metal or garage rock or super compressed modern pop. But if it is acoustic Jazz these headphones are near perfect.

 

[shabta]

What is your budget?