The FiiO X3 Thread UPDATE: Project Back On! Read the First Post for Information.

[Mad Lust Envy]

That has been discussed to DEATH already. Rockbox is not gonna be official. It may be suported in the future however.

 

[i_djoel2000]

Quote:

Also Fiio never ripped us off with their pricetag. This time it is not just an amp, this time software is needed and more sophisticated electronics. That is why it will cost more.
 

yes, that is what i still believe in. i believe fiio will not rip us off with overpriced product, he will give us an incredibly high price/performance ratio product instead *i certainly hope so

 

 

[mvmv]

It does sound like, if a lot of people are going to be using this with something like an iBasso D12 DAC/AMP or similar from the digital out (rather too expensive to use digital out with an iPod), the apparent E7 DAC/AMP inside the X3 will be pretty much going to waste in that scenario. Have i got the wrong end of the stick with this?

 

[JoetheArachnid]

Quote:

It does sound like, if a lot of people are going to be using this with something like an iBasso D12 DAC/AMP or similar from the digital out (rather too expensive to use digital out with an iPod), the apparent E7 DAC/AMP inside the X3 will be pretty much going to waste in that scenario. Have i got the wrong end of the stick with this?

It's the same reason why $14k CD players still have a digital coax out. People like versatility, and people always like to plug things into enormous DACs. That's pretty much the long and short of it.

 

[ClieOS]

The thing about iBasso D12 is that it still uses the same WM8740 as DAC, so don't expect any sudden jump of SQ from analog out to digital out. In theory, you will get the benefit of dual WM8740 on D12 on larger separation, but how noticeable it will be depended on a lot of things. I guess we need to wait till someone try it out first to know.
 

 

[suhaybh]

So, is this product still set for the May release date? Can't freakin wait!

 

[i_djoel2000]

Quote:

The thing about iBasso D12 is that it still uses the same WM8740 as DAC, so don't expect any sudden jump of SQ from analog out to digital out. In theory, you will get the benefit of dual WM8740 on D12 on larger separation, but how noticeable it will be depended on a lot of things. I guess we need to wait till someone try it out first to know.
 

if the internal DAC section is somehow in the same level as ibasso D12, then this DAP is just freakin' awesome!
 
i will only need to connect it to my portable amp then..it would sound as good as ever

 

[Pratt]

Regarding the price, I think anything over $100 is pushing it actually. What do they make this for: $20? For all r&d and overhead maybe $50? Everything else is just pure profit, just like with so much in audio gear 80% or more is pure profit over a certain point (which depends on the item).

Serioulsy, I have a friend in the business who makes huge profits by totally over pricing his stuff that people willingly pay for. He laughs all the way to the bank (he's not really a friend because of his low morals actually). I also have stock in several audio companies that do really well even in this economy. Come on people, FiiO or any other company are hardly going broke selling tiny headphones, IEM's, amps, and DAP's for hundreds to thousands. It's not even like making a car that actually does cost a good amount for material and labor and r&d which of course obscene profits are still made on. It cost them a LOT less to make and market and everything else involved with such items. Not so long ago external DACs and IEM's cost a LOT more than they do now...are all the companies who make the newer lower priced stuff (even more so when adjusted for inflation) going broke? No way, they are STILL doing just fine making DAC's that are capable of hi-res, digital, optical, etc. for $200 something that used to cost over $500 5 years ago. Same for IEM's that used to cost $100 to $200 or more for decent ones when you can now buy as good or even better sounding ones than that for $30 to $50 (my RE2's used to cost over $100 a few years ago and they were raved about as bargains for the price, now they are $30 dollars and the company is STILL making a profit off them of course). Or what about headphones like the Beyer 880, 990, Senn 600 and 650 and AKG 701/02? Those have gone down hundreds of dollars in the last few years but are still sold. If they company/seller wasn't making a profit still, they would, uh, not be sold anymore.
 
Just like with about everything else there is a huge mark up in marketing. The MFSP is a joke only the gullible pay and the street price is much lower to make it look like you are getting a good deal when the manufactor and dealers are still doing very well, even after all overhead costs are paid. Audio and other "high end/luxury" markets are full of profits because people will overpay. Very few are actually fairly priced.
 
That said, I am happy with my FiiO E5 I paid $10 for (I'm sure they make it for about $2) and I will pay $100 to $150 for this DAP but no more and that is really an unfair price anyway. But it beats iPod prices! lol
 
Speaking of iPod, no way is FiiO going to break that monopoly. They make up 90% of the DAP market and the only remotely close challenger is Sansa. The rest fight over less than 5% of the remaining market. I wish it wasn't this way, but it is, and either way my Apple stock is doing very well since, once again, people will gladly overpay for iPods, iPads, iWhateverelseyouthinkyouneed.
 
 
 
 

 

[Anaxilus]

I think your hypothetical price point is quite a bit undervalued for what it is but yes I think the price point I expected was capped around $150 too.  But we'll see what actually gets produced and makes it to production.  People saying >$200 is great are just insane and should give me all their money.

 

[Carlosfandango]

Pratt - your post is long and likely to evoke some debate.

I would like to say that you seem to have pulled figures out of thin air, generalised and not considered the falling cost of materials (when manufacturers reduce their cost but still make a profit).

In short, I think you are looking at this too simplistically.

But what do I know!

 

[Pratt]

Sorry guys, just my pet peeve (those who willingly overpay for things and even act like businesses are somehow benevolent or fair...come on!)
 
Anyway, I won't debate this as it is off topic and I won't argue with people (I don't have the time nor inclination really), especially if they don't admit what is clearly true (that most audio goods are very overpriced). Many will only just post fallacies and voodoo math (including the manufacturers) to support the high prices and too many will buy them. Having an inside view I know much better, as well as just thinking about it honestly (consumers are there to be ripped off as much as possible and it's always been this way of course).

I just wanted to offer a counter view and rant.

/Out, and hoping this is under $150 which, while still not fair/reasonable, is decent enough for me to overpay.

 

[i_djoel2000]

Quote:

Regarding the price, I think anything over $100 is pushing it actually. What do they make this for: $20? For all r&d and overhead maybe $50? Everything else is just pure profit, just like with so much in audio gear 80% or more is pure profit over a certain point (which depends on the item).

Serioulsy, I have a friend in the business who makes huge profits by totally over pricing his stuff that people willingly pay for. He laughs all the way to the bank (he's not really a friend because of his low morals actually). I also have stock in several audio companies that do really well even in this economy. Come on people, FiiO or any other company are hardly going broke selling tiny headphones, IEM's, amps, and DAP's for hundreds to thousands. It's not even like making a car that actually does cost a good amount for material and labor and r&d which of course obscene profits are still made on. It cost them a LOT less to make and market and everything else involved with such items. Not so long ago external DACs and IEM's cost a LOT more than they do now...are all the companies who make the newer lower priced stuff (even more so when adjusted for inflation) going broke? No way, they are STILL doing just fine making DAC's that are capable of hi-res, digital, optical, etc. for $200 something that used to cost over $500 5 years ago. Same for IEM's that used to cost $100 to $200 or more for decent ones when you can now buy as good or even better sounding ones than that for $30 to $50 (my RE2's used to cost over $100 a few years ago and they were raved about as bargains for the price, now they are $30 dollars and the company is STILL making a profit off them of course). Or what about headphones like the Beyer 880, 990, Senn 600 and 650 and AKG 701/02? Those have gone down hundreds of dollars in the last few years but are still sold. If they company/seller wasn't making a profit still, they would, uh, not be sold anymore.
 
Just like with about everything else there is a huge mark up in marketing. The MFSP is a joke only the gullible pay and the street price is much lower to make it look like you are getting a good deal when the manufactor and dealers are still doing very well, even after all overhead costs are paid. Audio and other "high end/luxury" markets are full of profits because people will overpay. Very few are actually fairly priced.
 
That said, I am happy with my FiiO E5 I paid $10 for (I'm sure they make it for about $2) and I will pay $100 to $150 for this DAP but no more and that is really an unfair price anyway. But it beats iPod prices! lol
 
Speaking of iPod, no way is FiiO going to break that monopoly. They make up 90% of the DAP market and the only remotely close challenger is Sansa. The rest fight over less than 5% of the remaining market. I wish it wasn't this way, but it is, and either way my Apple stock is doing very well since, once again, people will gladly overpay for iPods, iPads, iWhateverelseyouthinkyouneed.
 
 
 
 

 
it's definitely what i've been thinking all the time. even though maybe fiio will not make big profit on this product, that's just the way it is! prices of portable audio is just getting more and more competitive in China. there's no need to brag about $200 price tag, really..they will eventually survive the competition somehow. lol
 
 
nice write up, Pratt..i enjoyed reading it, but the discussion must be put on a stop, it might raise some debate. myself, i prefer to just wait until fiio announce the fix price and hope that it is very competitively priced as well. but to push it go near S$100 is just cruel, though..below or around $150 still fine for me

 
 
 

 

[Carlosfandango]

anyway, I won't debate this as it is off topic and I won't argue with people (I don't have the time nor inclination really), especially if they don't admit what is clearly true (that most audio goods are very overpriced). Many will only just post fallacies and voodoo math (including the manufacturers) to support the high prices and too many will buy them. Having an inside view I know much better, as well as just thinking about it honestly (consumers are there to be ripped off as much as possible .... Snip

Lol you won't debate it because you are right and everyone else is wrong!

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Because audio gear has ever been fairly priced? Lol, gimme a break. By today's standards, the options that the X3 has, and the fact that it already has basically a Fiio E7 gutted to work just for the internal DAP, pricing it near $200 is fair. You don't like it, buy your Cowon, Apple, or whatever. This is gonna be more business than those. But anyways.

 

[scannon18]

Also, I think that Fiio probably payed a lot of money for r&d.  It is one thing for a company like Apple of Sansa to produce a new DAP, they have plenty of old DAP technology and know-how to go on.  But this is Fiios first DAP, and it is really more than just getting an E7 to play music.  A lot more.  More, in fact, than anyone here knows because we were not a part of development.  We only know if it is "worth it" on the consumer end (ie. would I feel satisfied paying $200 for this DAP?)  and that is going to be different for everybody