[Tom Yum Goong]

Quote:

A regular fiio e17 is $139. If the x3 is going to cost $200 dollars you'd pay 60 bucks for the ability to add as much music as you'd like, you are able to play that music and you have a reasonable screen which makes it easy to find what you want. It's up to you to decide whether it is worth your money or not.

 
 
I don't think that the e17 is 139$ sheer hardware value. More like 100 bucks or so, which means more budget for the music-storing-and-playing part

 

[Retrias]

Assume you are right and fiio e17 would need only 100 bucks to produce, then the x3 would cost you 100 bucks to actually develop storage, software interface, better battery than the fiio e17 since its acting as a dap already now, buying a large screen, making a new casing , this is all assuming that fiio is making jack**** on this dap, which realistically it wont be, even assuming all that the x3 would still provide great value

 

[Gorillaz]

Quote:

Are you saying what fiio says that a dac change only would bump the price up to 400 is a lie ? Then you still have to change the amp to match the dac power, theb you have to find a better power source and so on, and at the end this is not charity thus fiio have to make actual margin of profit 

No, as a business owner I know he has to make profit for himself if not what's the point of having one, plus money to pay his workers, insurance polices and all other expenses.
 
what I am trying to say that if we have the advantage to talk to the person who is willing to manufacture a good sounding dap for us, why we just don't focus t in the Sound Quality of it and forget about all those unnecesary features I have already mentioned, how many of you talk crap about the ipod's SQ and some of us have come to the conclusion that they do not care about its SQ because they have focused in putting other features on them so forgeting about its SQ.

 

[eke2k6]

This is getting annoying. People wonder why manufacturers don't typically accept customer feedback, and this is it. If you're all already whining about a product that isn't even on the market yet, then what's the incentive for Fiio to continue to do what they've done in the past?
 
Their main philosophy is to provide the best experience to their customers, giving them the best hardware within certain price constraints.
 
This reminds me of a lesson I learned early in my childhood, perfectly illustrated by this story: http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Am-Through-With-Trying-To-Please-Everyone/1214451
 
So, quit bitchin, and let Fiio continue to provide products that will prove useful to their intended market. If you want something that performs like a DX100, go buy a DX100.
 
End rant

 

[FatmanSize48]

Quote:

This is getting annoying. People wonder why manufacturers don't typically accept customer feedback, and this is it. If you're all already whining about a product that isn't even on the market yet, then what's the incentive for Fiio to continue to do what they've done in the past?
 
Their main philosophy is to provide the best experience to their customers, giving them the best hardware within certain price constraints.
 
This reminds me of a lesson I learned early in my childhood, perfectly illustrated by this story: http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Am-Through-With-Trying-To-Please-Everyone/1214451
 
So, quit bitchin, and let Fiio continue to provide products that will prove useful to their intended market. If you want something that performs like a DX100, go buy a DX100.
 
End rant

(Applauds for said rant)

 

[Gorillaz]

Quote:

This is getting annoying. People wonder why manufacturers don't typically accept customer feedback, and this is it. If you're all already whining about a product that isn't even on the market yet, then what's the incentive for Fiio to continue to do what they've done in the past?
 
Their main philosophy is to provide the best experience to their customers, giving them the best hardware within certain price constraints.
 
This reminds me of a lesson I learned early in my childhood, perfectly illustrated by this story: http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Am-Through-With-Trying-To-Please-Everyone/1214451
 
So, quit bitchin, and let Fiio continue to provide products that will prove useful to their intended market. If you want something that performs like a DX100, go buy a DX100.
 
End rant

so if you don't like bitchin why are you bitchin then?
 
who is against Fiio?
 
what's the reason Fiio monitors this thread and answers some of the questions posted here?
 
aren't we all expecting the Fiio x3 to be the best dap for less money?
 
did you read how this discussion started that you are mentioning the DX100 like we want to buy it?
 
what's the purpose of a forum/thread?

 

[kova4a]

LOL This thread has really gone downhill. I do read some very unrealistic expectations. The X3 is supposed to be a DAP that has a bunch of features that people have wanted for quite a while in a budget DAP - like metal body, relatively big screen, so people can go through their library faster and don't squint to see what's playing, decent separate amp section, line-out and on top of that the best priced transport for people who want to go high-end. Fiio knows what people want - what some people can't realize is that this DAP isn't made for a handful of head-fi members who are expecting a Tera Player for 200 bucks but mainly for the Chinese and international market  with avarage consumers who want to go into higher end sound without breaking the bank. There isn't a company in the world that will do all the testing and development and spend all this money on a niche DAP like the Tera Player and sell it for cheap. That's totally unrealistic. The X3 has been in development for quite some time now - on and off and during all that time Fiio invested money in it. Fiio is a company who wants to satisfy the needs of the many but won't be working for free and most people want all those features. If I'm travelling or camping I want a lot of my music library to be with me - I don't need 4GB of storage that will take like 6 hi-rez albums (if you have this narrow genre field and only few albums then, yeah) - I need at least a mic sd card slot and the same goes for 90% of the people here.  So, Gorillaz, just go with the Tera Player because realistically you'll never ever get anything like that for less than 600-700 bucks and you already mentioned you're your own boss and such a big businessman so you surely have the extra cash

 

[Gorillaz]

well Thanks God I am my own boss and a Big businessman as you mentioned and I can afford some of the things I want! and did you read how this discussion started and what's has been talked about in the last posts? and if you travel and camp why you just don't take your laptop with you, we have the opportunity to exchange ideas with Fiio and you come up with wanting to have most of you library with hi-rez albums included in the a budget portable dap  and I can't comment that focusing in the SQ would be better?
 
so Kova4a it's impossible to have a good dap for less than $600-$700? I see why you are not your own boss nor a business owner!

 

[kova4a]

Of course I read it. You still don't realize that the X3 is pretty much a very good DAP for little money. Being audiophile doesn't mean going for a small screenless DAP  without any other features just for a little bit of extra sq. People here have big power demanding cans and a lot of them will need a line-out, they also have huuuge music libraries and screenless or no sd card is not the way to go. The X3 is trying to be a budget all-in-one DAP to carry in your pocket everywhere not something that only has better sq and nothing more and you use it in bed or on the porch. When I travel and camp I don't need a laptop that has 4 hours of battery life and is totally useless when I'm hiking and mountain biking. We do exchange ideas with James but only realistic ones - he has the main idea of what the DAP should be and we give suggestions to make it as optimal as possible. Fiio never intended to make a high-end DAP out of the X3 and we can't tell James what he should do to satisfy the desires of 10 people after spending thousands and many months in R&D. Why shouldn't I want to have hi-rez music on my DAP - aren't you complaining about sq - I want the best sq files. I didn't mention the "Big businessman" thing to offend you but to tell you how it sounds when you mention it out of contest. It's like me saying that because I'm a lawyer and I register and work with a lot of companies I know how to run any of them. It just doesn't make sense - you know nothing about R&D of audio equipment, how much time and money it takes and what viable options you have to keep the price down. Fiio has always made bang for buck stuff and if it was any other company the X3 would probably cost north of 350 bucks but you sill want a $200 DAP that has very little features in exchange for a little bit of extra sq and that only handful of people will buy to use as a portable DAP and Fiio will lose a huge amount of money and never develop anything else

 

[eke2k6]

Quote:

well Thanks God I am my own boss and a Big businessman as you mentioned and I can afford some of the things I want! and did you read how this discussion started and what's has been talked about in the last posts? and if you travel and camp why you just don't take your laptop with you, we have the opportunity to exchange ideas with Fiio and you come up with wanting to have most of you library with hi-rez albums included in the a budget portable dap  and I can't comment that focusing in the SQ would be better?
 
so it's impossible to have a good dap for less than $600-$700, I see why you are not your own boss nor a business owner!

 
 
You know what, it seems you don't understand Fiio's philosophy. Let me help with that
 
How I see it, they create a product lineup, with each one at a different price point. At each point, they look at what they can/can't accomplish within that budget, and do market research to discern what the consumers need the most. The X3 was designed to take on the ipod, by better overall SQ, while trying to maintain Apple's magical UI. The component choices are dictated by price, above all else. When you decide on - for instance- a DAC, you design almost everything around it, like the power components, capacitors, and the amp chip to some extent. In other words, schiit adds up quickly.
 
The key here is the business model. I sincerely doubt the company would change something like that because of a few outliers.
 
I haven't even glanced twice at the Tera Player because I see it as a glorified ipod shuffle. The DX100 is a buggy cement block, and the AK100 is just expensive. Fiio has done a great job in the past of making affordable gateway drugs into this maddening hobby, all without "help" from you all. I'm also sure they've made a suitable profit from it, or they wouldn't be in business.
 
Leave them alone, or start your own company. If you find that magic combination, I may be your third customer (the first two would be guinea pigs).

 

[Gorillaz]

Quote:

Of course I read it. You still don't realize that the X3 is pretty much a very good DAP for little money. Being audiophile doesn't mean going for a small screenless DAP  without any other features just for a little bit of extra sq. People here have big power demanding cans and a lot of them will need a line-out, they also have huuuge music libraries and screenless or no sd card is not the way to go. The X3 is trying to be a budget all-in-one DAP to carry in your pocket everywhere not something that only has better sq and nothing more and you use it in bed or on the porch. When I travel and camp I don't need a laptop that has 4 hours of battery life and is totally useless when I'm hiking and mountain biking. We do exchange ideas with James but only realistic ones - he has the main idea of what the DAP should be and we give suggestions to make it as optimal as possible. Fiio never intended to make a high-end DAP out of the X3 and we can't tell James what he should do to satisfy the desires of 10 people after spending thousands and many months in R&D. Why shouldn't I want to have hi-rez music on my DAP - aren't you complaining about sq - I want the best sq files. I didn't mention the "Big businessman" thing to offend you but to tell you how it sounds when you mention it out of contest. It's like me saying that because I'm a lawyer and I register and work with a lot of companies I know how to run any of them. It just doesn't make sense - you know nothing about R&D of audio equipment, how much time and money it takes and what viable options you have to keep the price down. Fiio has always made bang for buck stuff and if it was any other company the X3 would probably cost north of 350 bucks but you sill want a $200 DAP that has very little features in exchange for a little bit of extra sq and that only handful of people will buy to use as a portable DAP and Fiio will lose a huge amount of money and never develop anything else

I just made some comments in which I mentioned That I wanted the X3 to succceed and I was going to buy one as soon as it comes out, we got to this point because someone else wanted more stuff in this budget dap, and I said that if some of us weren't asking for unnecessary features it could be possible  and I clearly said  it was just my opinion that's all. now let's leave this thread alone!

 

[kova4a]

Quote:

I just made some comments in which I mentioned That I wanted the X3 to succceed and I was going to buy one as soon as it comes out, we got to this point because someone else wanted more stuff in this budget dap, and I said that if some of us weren't asking for unnecessary features it could be possible  and I clearly said  it was just my opinion that's all. now let's leave this thread alone!

Well, non of these unnecessary things have been  added, so you can be sure you're getting the best bang for that buck. James already said the screen is nothing special and it's cheap and as you see we don't have a 500GB SSD or USB DAC support. We have a cheap screen, cheap micro sd slot and still the option of a digital out for people who want to go really hi-end with a better DAC that you won't get in a sub-$900 DAP. The X3 has the same DAC as many other DAP's that cost a lot more and a very decent amp section, so you pretty much get an awesome budget DAP for a very good price. Could it have been slightly better - maybe, but that would take a lot more time of Fiio's time in R&D and would still raise the final price even if the price of the parts was the same as the current ones.

 

[Achmedisdead]

Quote:

 
 
You know what, it seems you don't understand Fiio's philosophy. Let me help with that
 
How I see it, they create a product lineup, with each one at a different price point. At each point, they look at what they can/can't accomplish within that budget, and do market research to discern what the consumers need the most. The X3 was designed to take on the ipod, by better overall SQ, while trying to maintain Apple's magical UI. The component choices are dictated by price, above all else. When you decide on - for instance- a DAC, you design almost everything around it, like the power components, capacitors, and the amp chip to some extent. In other words, schiit adds up quickly.
 
The key here is the business model. I sincerely doubt the company would change something like that because of a few outliers.
 
I haven't even glanced twice at the Tera Player because I see it as a glorified ipod shuffle. The DX100 is a buggy cement block, and the AK100 is just expensive. Fiio has done a great job in the past of making affordable gateway drugs into this maddening hobby, all without "help" from you all. I'm also sure they've made a suitable profit from it, or they wouldn't be in business.
 
Leave them alone, or start your own company. If you find that magic combination, I may be your third customer (the first two would be guinea pigs).

 

[kova4a]

yeah, eke's right - Fiio has that business model and it goes with it. Like with its amps - we had the e3 and now we have the e12 in such a short period of time, so in a few years there will be possibly newer higher-end DAPs from Fiio but the X3 is its first DAP and obviously they will need a lot more time in research and development and a lot of experience (some of which they'll gain from the X3's development) to get to the better stuff but still you won't get what you want for 200 bucks coz that's absolutely unrealistic. That's something Apple could do coz they have their DAPs manufactured in a completely different level and  in the millions, which lowers the final price and Fiio can't compete with that because let's be honest - in the best case they sell thousands of units but can't compete with the big companies with all the money for advertising and millions of customers. Of course, that won't happen again as if Apple made something like that with a 100 bucks production cost they won't sell it for 200 bucks - they'll sell it for 700

 

[Gorillaz]

Quote:

Well, non of these unnecessary things have been  added, so you can be sure you're getting the best bang for that buck. James already said the screen is nothing special and it's cheap and as you see we don't have a 500GB SSD or USB DAC support. We have a cheap screen, cheap micro sd slot and still the option of a digital out for people who want to go really hi-end with a better DAC that you won't get in a sub-$900 DAP. The X3 has the same DAC as many other DAP's that cost a lot more and a very decent amp section, so you pretty much get an awesome budget DAP for a very good price. Could it have been slightly better - maybe, but that would take a lot more time of Fiio's time in R&D and would still raise the final price even if the price of the parts was the same as the current ones.

Kova4a, is just an opinion that's all, lol, I  admire Feaio for having the vison of making good gear that we all can afford! if he did not believe that, we would not be talking about X3 or Mont Blanc for $129 or the Fiio E6 for $20 something, does he have two amp models or more? can he manufacture two different dap models, yes or no? this a forum with many members with different opinions that's all and once again I want Fiio to Succeed!!