[maverickronin]

Quote:

My first impression with the T50rp, since I think you were wondering
 
NO BASS.

Did they change the pads again or something?  I have some stock pairs I probably bought 9 or 10 months ago and they're not too light on the bass.  They've got way more than the pairs Tyll measured on InnerFidelity.  The need a good seal on both sided of the pad to get some decent bass response.

 

[SkinnyPuppy]

Quote:

Did they change the pads again or something?  I have some stock pairs I probably bought 9 or 10 months ago and they're not too light on the bass.  They've got way more than the pairs Tyll measured on InnerFidelity.  The need a good seal on both sided of the pad to get some decent bass response.

I own pro 900s, everything seems bass light other than those.

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

I own pro 900s, everything seems bass light other than those.

Maybe.  I was sort of looking for someone else's firsthand experience with a more recent sample since Tyll's graphs didn't match my experience.  I was wondering if the pads were different or if they just didn't seal well on Tyll's dummy head for some reason.

 

[ardgedee]

I think if you're after clarity (without that just meaning "treble emphasis"), the T50RPs are good for the price.
 
If you're into modding them for the sake of hacking as well as improvement, it's a relatively cheap pursuit and, again, as long as you don't put a cost on the effort, you can get good sound for cheap. They're not giant killers, though, especially once you start rolling in the cost of the equipment you're buying to work on them, and a nominal price on your time.
 
I don't think there's a lot more to them than that.

 

[mutabor]

Quote:

 
Reflecting on my comment on headphone looks, I think I was a bit harsh there, I concede I judge headphones on looks and design too, and to a certain extent company name.
 
 
I suppose it's not pure looks, but the actual politics and design behind them.  Take the DBA-02 and Brainwavz B2, or more recently the FA-003 and Brainwavz HM5, these all look exactly identical and have no design, I hate them, they're just knock-off OEM housings from China.
 
That's the reason I don't have a Yuin or BLOX either... you see the exact same housings on other earbuds, then there's the Hifiman RE0, I saw a $2 lookalike on ebay.
 
 
Where is the company spirit, design, innovation, integrity and pioneering?
 
I sigh.

Well, after I realized that IEMs are not for me ( when you seal an ear-canal with IEM there is a vacuum pressure inside it that fatigues my ears very fast) then I don't have a choice. Major players have stopped producing  high quality earbuds and instead switched to producing IEMs.
 
Such companies like Blox are a godsend in that case. I just decided to try their Blox M2C but it's out of stock already. So what I have now is poor sounding Sony earbud ( which looks good by the way with a metallic touch and nice Sony logo on it) and an IEM which sounds better but I don't want to use it.
 
If these guys from China can make good sounding earbuds for the reasonable price then I don't care about design. I just don't have choice.

 

[Bokyung]

Quote:

OK thanks I'll look them up later.
 
I've been listening to some of the same albums for 10 years, I relive them all the time.
 

Feels so good to relive the good old days!

 

[wilzc]

Quote:

 
By the way, I saw your post asking if the LCD-3 was hard to drive. It's not that hard to drive to be honest. I can drive it straight from my notebook's headphone jack to high volume, and it actually doesn't sound half bad.
 
I think some head-fiers definitely exaggerate amp requirements for orthos.

AMEN!!!
 
Its not hard to drive!!  Most orthos aren't!!!  LCD2 runs fine out of the IPHONE!!   T_T    well its not optimum but hey!!  Add a fostex hp-p1 and thats it!! PORTABLE NECK BREAKER!

 

[tomscy2000]

haha except that's like forcing a supermodel to dress in sweats... they'll fit fine, and she'll look good no matter what, but she could look a lot better!
 
Quote:

LCD2 runs fine out of the IPHONE!!   T_T

 

 

[Danneq]

 
Quote:

Well, after I realized that IEMs are not for me ( when you seal an ear-canal with IEM there is a vacuum pressure inside it that fatigues my ears very fast) then I don't have a choice. Major players have stopped producing  high quality earbuds and instead switched to producing IEMs.
 
Such companies like Blox are a godsend in that case. I just decided to try their Blox M2C but it's out of stock already. So what I have now is poor sounding Sony earbud ( which looks good by the way with a metallic touch and nice Sony logo on it) and an IEM which sounds better but I don't want to use it.
 
If these guys from China can make good sounding earbuds for the reasonable price then I don't care about design. I just don't have choice.

Well, you could get a pair of Yuin PK2 or even PK3 while waiting for the net batch of M2C. On Ebay, you can find the PK2 starting at around $55 and the PK3 at around $35. The new Sennheiser MX earbuds seem to be popular as well. The MX580 model is around the same price as Yuin PK3, so you could try both MX580 and PK3.

You can also keep your eyes out for discontinued Sony earbuds, but then you would have to pay more.
MDR E282 (produced between around 1985-1990, you can find it for around $150-250, since it's older, it might be more expensive then the younger and more well known E484)
MDR E484 (produced between around 1988-1995, you can usually find it on Ebay for around $150-200)
MDR E575 (produced between around 1990-1995, can usually be found for around $90-140)
MDR E888 (produced between around 1995-some time early 2000, cheapest of the bunch and least difficult to find. However, there seem to be fakes, so look out)

These were the top earbuds of each generation, and they sound much better then the ones sold right now.

You can also look for lower numbers, such as E252/E262, E454/E464/E472 and E565, but they might be more difficult to find unless you look at auctions for old Walkmans or Discmans where they can be included.
 
If you do not care about spending silly amounts of money on 20 year old earbuds, I think that the Sennheiser MX x80 series and the Yuin PK 2/3 series is a good choice.

 

[kiteki]

 
Me:  "Normal and LEQ are 100% identical with this song."
 
 
T51 thread:  "i dont find 'norma'l anything like 'PlayFX LEQ' normal is a odd equalization which sounds muddy even rock and classic sounds better, i presume LEQ = level eq, swtiching between line out and headphone out it seems 'normal' is a line out muddy which is probably un processed as its supposed to be connect externally and processed again and just passed through the headphone amp"
 
...
 

 

[kiteki]

Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuppetFace /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
By the way, I saw your post asking if the LCD-3 was hard to drive. It's not that hard to drive to be honest. I can drive it straight from my notebook's headphone jack to high volume, and it actually doesn't sound half bad.
 
I think some head-fiers definitely exaggerate amp requirements for orthos.

AMEN!!!
 
Its not hard to drive!!  Most orthos aren't!!!  LCD2 runs fine out of the IPHONE!!   T_T    well its not optimum but hey!!  Add a fostex hp-p1 and thats it!! PORTABLE NECK BREAKER!

 
Hahaha!... Hmm you know it could be because there's a website with the most powerful headphone amplifier in production (I think), saying Audeze and Hifiman orthodynamics are the most difficult headphones to drive?
 
 
 

 

[ardgedee]

"Difficult" is a neatly ambiguous term, though. All it means is that you can't plug it into any old amp and expect good sound. You have to find an amp it couples well with. So to get the best out of the headphone you have to be more aware of what it's being connected to, and why.
 
Some transducers (headphones and speakers alike) are inefficient because they have high input impedance. Some are inefficient simply because they don't deliver many dB/watt. But some are reasonably efficient and difficult to drive well because they require loads of current or low amplifier output impedance, tight coupling with the head or ear canal (in the case of headphones) or careful room placement (speakers).
 
Many high-efficiency IEMs are difficult to drive, too, and they're as unlike the HE-6 as possible. They are difficult because they're so efficient that few good-quality amps can power them within a comfortable dynamic range that's sufficiently above the amp's noise floor. Some IEM companies like UE and Etymotic provide passive adaptors that add impedance, just to constructively make the amp work a little harder.
 
Now, you can always pick up an inefficient speaker, plug it into an underpowered amp, and make it sound loud. It'll sound bad because the amplifier doesn't have much headroom left for dynamics (or it's outright clipping). Or it'll simply sound underwhelming, such as the HE-6's tendency to lose bass and soundstage when it's underpowered.
 
Often, the consequences of a Difficult Transducer connected to an Incompatible Amp are subtle enough, or the flaws are amicable, so it is perfectly Good Enough and you don't have to dwell on all the upgrades you're committing yourself to. I don't think we do that often enough around here; it's a virtue and a fault of ours, both.
 
(If I keep namedropping the HE-6 it's because I have one and it's been connected to a lot of amps. I'm familiar with its idiosyncrasies. I like it anyway.)
 
Possibly the most inefficient commercially produced dynamic headphones are the HE-6 and the AKG K1000. Both of them can sound amazing when they're amplified well, but that's not so easy out of the headphone jack of most amps. The path of least resistance is to find a moderate-power solid state amp for them, and plug 'em right into the speaker taps.
 
Ray Samuel's Dark Star is a headphone amp on steroids. I thought the K1000 and HE-6 were fantastic on it. The LCD-2 was pretty fine too, but it sounded better on other amps. I thought my vintage receiver was pretty close in quality, though. If the price wasn't a concern, I'd consider the upgrade. I also heard the HE-6 on musicman59's Pass Aleph speaker amp. It sounded fantastic on that, too. musicman59 sold it and bought a Dark Star. I like to think I would have been equally happy with either, having heard both. (Although as I understand it, shifting the Aleph was part of a general equipment re-org strategy not directly related to getting the Dark Star. Moving on...)

 

[kiteki]

 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MuppetFace /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
 
Just to be a stick in the mud, I'll offer some cynically-tinged opinions.
 
The T50RPs are definitely overhyped. I've listened to them in their stock form, with various mods, did some mods myself, and have some of those popular woodied ones from a certain head-fier. They have a unique sound in stock form that I wasn't particularly enamored with. Modding them improves certain aspects of the sound signature, but at the end of the day they're still T50RPs, and they're still nothing phenomenal imho. The woodied ones are definitely built with skilled craftsmanship, but again, I don't find them as moving as a lot of head-fiers seem to.
 
The DT48 is certainly an interesting headphone that comes in many different variants, some better than others. I've listened to a few of them. They sound pretty good, but I think the hype exaggerates just how good. I think they're an interesting piece of headphone history / memorabilia that provide an intriguing listen. But best headphone under $1000? Hardly.
 
Everyone has opinions though. Mine aren't any more relevant than the next fellow's.

Your opinion looks well-seasoned and realistic,
 
However... much like the comments on DT48 sounding the best under $1000, I've seen another head-fier (he even has the Heaudio Jade I think) say the Fostex T50RP is the best headphone under $800.
 
I don't take those comments very seriously, but I find them inviting because there must be something special about the sound of that headphone then, in order to ellicit such an emotional statement, even if false.
 
An example is that guy ummm.... "Katun" saying his JVC FXC51 IEM's had better bass than the Ultrasone PRO 900, and sounding better than Z1000, of course the reaction is "Lol!" and peoples eyes glaze over his comments but anyway I bought the JVC FXC51 to see what he was on about, and it actually is a really good performer for it's price if you love intimate bass and detail and no mids, and then I realised he factors in price a lot in his opinions, which is why he hated the Z1000 ($500) and loves the FXC51 ($50 or less). etc...
 
 
By the way Muppet Face, which DT48's have you heard and which one is recommended?  I'm guessing it will have some distinct weaknesses but I love the "love/hate" reactions on it and that it's from the 1940's or earlier, so maybe when you listen to it it summons souls from WWII? =p
 

 
Quote:

Stock they're pretty mid focused with a few resonances and colorations from enclosure vibrations. You can change the sound sig around quite a bit with driver damping and tuning the size of the cup's ports but they tend to sound best if you go for a neutral-ish sound. I get what was said about not being able to hear or locate the drivers. If you don't line the cups with something to absorb treble reflections you will hear the cups though. I haven't really got to compare them with flagship-level stuff but they did cause me to sell my HD650s because I stopped listening to them after a few weeks of experimenting with the T50RPs.
 
If you seal the cups or use a tiny port and add a reflex dot you should be able to get the bright-ish sort of sound it seems you like.
 
I've never heard the DT48 and I'm not really that interested buying a pair myself but I would like to try it out some time.

Thanks Maverick Ronin, what's a reflex dot?
 
Sometimes I try to listen to the drivers and not the music/stereo imaging, if the T50RP's create a true virtual sound that might explain why some people like them more than dynamic drivers? -shrug-
 
 
 
Quote:

My first impression with the T50rp, since I think you were wondering
 
NO BASS.
 

 
Lol, thanks.

 
Quote:

Well, after I realized that IEMs are not for me ( when you seal an ear-canal with IEM there is a vacuum pressure inside it that fatigues my ears very fast) then I don't have a choice. Major players have stopped producing high quality earbuds and instead switched to producing IEMs.
 
Such companies like Blox are a godsend in that case. I just decided to try their Blox M2C but it's out of stock already. So what I have now is poor sounding Sony earbud ( which looks good by the way with a metallic touch and nice Sony logo on it) and an IEM which sounds better but I don't want to use it.
 
If these guys from China can make good sounding earbuds for the reasonable price then I don't care about design. I just don't have choice.

The BLoX earphones are at least reasonably priced, unlike the Yuin OK1 which just seems overpriced for cheap plastic, what are the drivers diamond and platinum?  Remember the RE0 used to sell for $199 and that was considered "good value" what a joke.

I think you might be interested in the Sony E888 or the Sony E931, they are still in production and still quite popular, buy from Japan only (to avoid fakes).
 
You could also listen to the vintage expert Danneq if you want a second-hand model.
 
Let's not forget the Final Audio earbud and 9wave http://www.9wave.jp/english.html
 
 

 

[kiteki]

Quote:

"Difficult" is a neatly ambiguous term, though. All it means is that you can't plug it into any old amp and expect good sound. You have to find an amp it couples well with. So to get the best out of the headphone you have to be more aware of what it's being connected to, and why.
 
Some transducers (headphones and speakers alike) are inefficient because they have high input impedance. Some are inefficient simply because they don't deliver many dB/watt. But some are reasonably efficient and difficult to drive well because they require loads of current or low amplifier output impedance, tight coupling with the head or ear canal (in the case of headphones) or careful room placement (speakers).
 
Many high-efficiency IEMs are difficult to drive, too, and they're as unlike the HE-6 as possible. They are difficult because they're so efficient that few good-quality amps can power them within a comfortable dynamic range that's sufficiently above the amp's noise floor. Some IEM companies like UE and Etymotic provide passive adaptors that add impedance, just to constructively make the amp work a little harder.
 
Now, you can always pick up an inefficient speaker, plug it into an underpowered amp, and make it sound loud. It'll sound bad because the amplifier doesn't have much headroom left for dynamics (or it's outright clipping). Or it'll simply sound underwhelming, such as the HE-6's tendency to lose bass and soundstage when it's underpowered.
 
(If I keep namedropping the HE-6 it's because I have one and it's been connected to a lot of amps. I'm familiar with its idiosyncrasies. I like it anyway.)
 
Possibly the most inefficient commercially produced dynamic headphones are the HE-6 and the AKG K1000. Both of them can sound amazing when they're amplified well, but that's not so easy out of the headphone jack of most amps. The path of least resistance is to find a moderate-power solid state amp for them, and plug 'em right into the speaker taps.
 
Ray Samuel's Dark Star is a headphone amp on steroids. I thought the K1000 and HE-6 were fantastic on it. The LCD-2 was pretty fine too, but it sounded better on other amps. I thought my vintage receiver was pretty close in quality, though. If the price wasn't a concern, I'd consider the upgrade. I also heard the HE-6 on musicman59's Pass Aleph speaker amp. It sounded fantastic on that, too. musicman59 sold it and bought a Dark Star. I like to think I would have been equally happy with either, having heard both. (Although as I understand it, shifting the Aleph was part of a general equipment re-org strategy not directly related to getting the Dark Star. Moving on...)

Thanks for sharing your amp experiences.
 
I don't have much experience with dedicated amplifiers and I find the north-western site very convincing, however I'm sure the K1000 and HE-6 have some special requirements, and then there is always synergy preference too.
 
I have an assortment of opamps, when I start opamp rolling the T51, AK Texas and objectve2 hopefully I'll learn some more about amps.
 
 

 

[esanthosh]

     Quote:

The BLoX earphones are at least reasonably priced, unlike the Yuin OK1 which just seems overpriced for cheap plastic, what are the drivers diamond and platinum?  Remember the RE0 used to sell for $199 and that was considered "good value" what a joke.

 
If you consider only the M2C and not their previous flagship, TM.5, then yes!