[zoso0632]

For music,I don't know whether it is going to be an upgrade or downgrade as I haven't heard the Heir 4ai. But I'm glad you asked about gaming, because just yesterday I was playing Need For Speed and I don't usually use my dt880's with gaming on my ps3 mainly because the cable is not long enough (I sit really far from the tv screen) and I already have a gaming headset with a mic that I can move around more easily than the dt880's. Anyway, as soon as I put them on, I noticed how clearer everything was (than my gaming headset). I could hear the raindrops making contact with the ground, and the storm right above my head. It really felt like real life, positioning was better and everything was just more lifelike and more immersive.

That being said, the dt880's are not really the best of the best in terms of gaming, look into the DT990 if you want that. They're very similar to the dt880's but with more bass and treble and slightly less midrange,, and of course a bigger soundstage with better imaging.

 
Thanks for the information. I think I read somewhere else that these were good for gaming or maybe it was one of the other beyerdynamic headphones I can't remember. But I think it would be great to hear every little detail like that. I thought about getting the DT990 and was looking at some review of them on youtube and found out that there is a lot of sound that bleeds out of them. There completely open and pretty much everything your listening to can be heard by someone standing next to you. I didn't want that to be a problem if someone was watching TV right next to me or something so I think it might be better for me to get the DT880 as its semi-closed so not nearly as much sound comes out. But the bigger soundstage and better imaging might persuade me to get them anyways I'll have to think about it some more.  

 

[Argyris]

I've never personally had a DT990, so I can't compare, but I know that the DT880 leaks quite a bit of sound as well. Not Grado-level open, but enough to be similarly annoying to somebody sitting nearby--certainly enough to make out what's playing, even at reasonable volumes.

 

[zoso0632]

  I've never personally had a DT990, so I can't compare, but I know that the DT880 leaks quite a bit of sound as well. Not Grado-level open, but enough to be similarly annoying to somebody sitting nearby--certainly enough to make out what's playing, even at reasonable volumes.

 
 I saw a video on both the DT990 and DT880 on how much sound leaks from them and from what I could tell it seemed the DT990 leaks about 80-90% of the sound from them where the DT880's seem to leak about 40-50% of the sound. I think the DT880's are just more at a bearable level. 

 

[xkonfuzed]

Thanks for the information. I think I read somewhere else that these were good for gaming or maybe it was one of the other beyerdynamic headphones I can't remember. But I think it would be great to hear every little detail like that. I thought about getting the DT990 and was looking at some review of them on youtube and found out that there is a lot of sound that bleeds out of them. There completely open and pretty much everything your listening to can be heard by someone standing next to you. I didn't want that to be a problem if someone was watching TV right next to me or something so I think it might be better for me to get the DT880 as its semi-closed so not nearly as much sound comes out. But the bigger soundstage and better imaging might persuade me to get them anyways I'll have to think about it some more.  

I don't mean to ruin your enthusiasm, but the ugly truth is that the DT880 leaks just as much as any open can would (well maybe slightly less). Beyer classifies them as semi-open but they're really open, they have the soundstage of an open headphone and they leak like an open headphone. Though it won't bother anybody even at higher volumes unless they're sitting right beside you, or if you live in a quiet house.

 

[TrollDragon]

Though it won't bother anybody even at higher volumes unless they're sitting right beside you, or if you live in a quiet house.

But your will have all the noise of the houshold along with the game sounds and music.
 
I had to switch over to my closed 'Sones while playing Outlast  as the racket from the TV over in the living room was spoiling that nice creepy atmosphere in the game.
 
Like xkonfuzed says, Open is open whether "Semi" or not. If you have quiet they are a great gaming headphone.

 

[zoso0632]

I don't mean to ruin your enthusiasm, but the ugly truth is that the DT880 leaks just as much as any open can would (well maybe slightly less). Beyer classifies them as semi-open but they're really open, they have the soundstage of an open headphone and they leak like an open headphone. Though it won't bother anybody even at higher volumes unless they're sitting right beside you, or if you live in a quiet house.

 
I'm not sure how it could leak just as much as any open can if the DT880 is semi-open. Even if it has just a little bit of a barrier in them that has to be doing something to stop some of the sound. This guy does a video review of the DT880 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL19bwWYY24) and the DT990 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCgt5s4t8G0) where he does a demo of the amount of sound that leaks out of them when there at an average listening volume and at least to me its pretty obvious that there is definitely a considerable difference in the amount of sound that leaks out of them. I like the idea of having a completely open headphone with all the benefits that comes with it but i'm not sure if I'm ready for them now so I thought this might be a good transition headphone. Does anyone have a IEM that is in the $400 dollar price range that they could compare the DT880 or DT990 to?
 
P.S. he does the sound demo somewhere around the 2 minute mark in the videos I think. 
 
Edit: fixed a typo

 

[Argyris]

They're broadly similar in isolation, with the DT880 offering a bit more in that regard:
 
=963&graphID[]=2141&scale=30]http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=6&graphID[]=963&graphID[]=2141&scale=30

 

[Argyris]

"Forward-sounding bass"...hmm, that's an unusual impression. They do have the faintest trace of warmth through the upper bass/lower mids, as per the typical dynamic driver curve from headphones of its vintage. But I'd stop well short of saying that they're bassy in any respect.

 

[zoso0632]

  They're broadly similar in isolation, with the DT880 offering a bit more in that regard:
 
=963&graphID[]=2141&scale=30]http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=6&graphID[]=963&graphID[]=2141&scale=30

 
So this graph shows that as far as isolation goes there pretty much the same? (Sorry I'm new to graphs) So choosing between the two based on isolation wouldnt be wise?

 

[Argyris]

More or less correct. I actually mixed up the traces in the last comment, so technically, the measurements actually suggest that the DT990 isolates a little more than the DT880. However, this test is notoriously difficult to get consistent results for (as Tyll, the guy who made these measurements for HeadRoom and his own site, InnerFidelity, attests), so I wouldn't read too much into that. The general trend of the lines is what's important. As you say, these results are pretty similar, and pretty typical of circumaural headphones in general.

 

[zoso0632]

  More or less correct. I actually mixed up the traces in the last comment, so technically, the measurements actually suggest that the DT990 isolates a little more than the DT880. However, this test is notoriously difficult to get consistent results for (as Tyll, the guy who made these measurements for HeadRoom and his own site, InnerFidelity, attests), so I wouldn't read too much into that. The general trend of the lines is what's important. As you say, these results are pretty similar, and pretty typical of circumaural headphones in general.

 
Ok strange. From the video demo's I saw I could of sworn that there was a night and day difference between the DT990 and the DT880. I guess you never can tell unless your seeing them in person. Too many variables like how far the microphone is away from the person. I read Tyll's website InnerFidelity from time to time so I know he does good work and is very knowledgable. Now I have some thinking to do. I wonder if a place like guitar center would have these heaphones out so that I could demo them before I bought them.

 

[Argyris]

There's a difference between isolation and leakage. It's theoretically possible for two variations on a design to have similar levels of isolation from outside noise but to allow differing amounts of sound to leak out. That seems to be the case with the DT880 vs DT990. I watched both those videos, and I could definitely hear more sound from the DT990. That said, it wasn't a formal test, with both having the same music played at the exact same volume, so there were some variables there that might explain the difference. I know from almost three years of experience that the DT880 does block out a bit of sound, but not a lot; similarly, it isn't quite like a completely open headphone in its leakage, but it will leak enough sound that, depending on the material, you can hear it across a medium-sized room.

 

[zoso0632]

  There's a difference between isolation and leakage. It's theoretically possible for two variations on a design to have similar levels of isolation from outside noise but to allow differing amounts of sound to leak out. That seems to be the case with the DT880 vs DT990. I watched both those videos, and I could definitely hear more sound from the DT990. That said, it wasn't a formal test, with both having the same music played at the exact same volume, so there were some variables there that might explain the difference. I know from almost three years of experience that the DT880 does block out a bit of sound, but not a lot; similarly, it isn't quite like a completely open headphone in its leakage, but it will leak enough sound that, depending on the material, you can hear it across a medium-sized room.

 
Thats how I was thinking the difference was between the two and that little difference between the sound leakage was making me lean towards the DT880. However if the sound difference was a lot better with the DT990 I might be able to overlook the amount of sound that leaks from them and get them. Is the sound between the two really different or is it just a larger sound stage with the DT990? 

 

[Argyris]

I know the DT990 only by reputation, but it's a pretty well-known quantity, so I can comment on it generally. The DT990 is a DT880 with a built-in smiley curve, with boosted bass and treble. The DT880, on the other hand, is like a very much tamed version of the DT990, with the bass flattened out and the treble softened. They should be similar in technical capability apart from that.
 
Describing the DT880 on its own, it's a bright-leaning neutral headphone, with well-controlled bass, level mids, and slightly boosted, well-extended treble. It's detailed, airy, and has a well-rounded soundstage--not disproportionately wide, with good depth and even a sense of height.
 
nikongod had a really excellent comparison of all the different top shelf Beyers, but I can't seem to find it at the moment. I can't imagine why that thread would be deleted, so I'm sure it's out there somewhere.

 

[zoso0632]

  I know the DT990 only by reputation, but it's a pretty well-known quantity, so I can comment on it generally. The DT990 is a DT880 with a built-in smiley curve, with boosted bass and treble. The DT880, on the other hand, is like a very much tamed version of the DT990, with the bass flattened out and the treble softened. They should be similar in technical capability apart from that.
 
Describing the DT880 on its own, it's a bright-leaning neutral headphone, with well-controlled bass, level mids, and slightly boosted, well-extended treble. It's detailed, airy, and has a well-rounded soundstage--not disproportionately wide, with good depth and even a sense of height.
 
nikongod had a really excellent comparison of all the different top shelf Beyers, but I can't seem to find it at the moment. I can't imagine why that thread would be deleted, so I'm sure it's out there somewhere.

 
Thanks that comparison helped. I might buy them used so I guess I'll just see what is available at the time I'm ready to buy and make a decision then.