[TrollDragon]

Quote:

Wut, I cant believe people dont actually know this. These are the most basic of basics when it comes to sound physics, doesn't even actually require any technical knowledge, its just common sense that as you push something further to the limit, energy needed increases exponentially. I studied this when I was 15, and I didn't go to any technical high school. 

Well good for you, don't break your arm patting yourself on the back!
 
I didn't find this information to be the "most basic of basics"...
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-FactorRatioLevelDecibel.htm
 
and thanks for letting us know we're all stupid for asking about or trying to understand such a simple common sense thing.
 
damn, some of these forums are starting to get more annoying day by day...

 

[derbigpr]

Quote:

 
*sigh* Computer Technology, with a Focus on Networking.
 

Oh boy, you should have these formulas in small finger so to speak, or at least know where to look for them when you forget them (which happens to everyone).
I could not even dream of getting into any tech related university without knowing loads of physics and maths in my country, and this is rly very very basic stuff.

 

[derbigpr]

Quote:

Well good for you, don't break your arm patting yourself on the back!
 
I didn't find this information to be the "most basic of basics"...
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-FactorRatioLevelDecibel.htm
 
and thanks for letting us know we're all stupid for asking about or trying to understand such a simple common sense thing.
 
damn, some of these forums are starting to get more annoying day by day...

 
 
Show me where I called anyone stupid. I just said I (and everyone else attending a typical gymnasium highschool program) had to know this stuff in 1st grade highschool when I was 15 years old. I'm just surprised that someone interesting in audio doesn't know this.
 
"some of these forums are starting to get more annoying day by day..."   - you're definitely right about that.

 

[xkonfuzed]

Wut, I cant believe people dont actually know this. These are the most basic of basics when it comes to sound physics, doesn't even actually require any technical knowledge, its just common sense that as you push something further to the limit, energy needed increases exponentially. I studied this when I was 15, and I didn't go to any technical high school. 

I am assuming you're that guy who sits in the front row in all his classes and writes down all the notes, either that or you have an IQ of 160.

I am currently 16 and I don't understand most of this stuff. I'm not stupid, but math is just not my thing. Im actually pretty good at every other subject. Just letting you know that not all of us understand mathematic calculations and formulas this easy, our brains are not the same.

 

[MrEleventy]

Well good for you, don't break your arm patting yourself on the back!

I didn't find this information to be the "most basic of basics"...
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-FactorRatioLevelDecibel.htm

and thanks for letting us know we're all stupid for asking about or trying to understand such a simple common sense thing.

damn, some of these forums are starting to get more annoying day by day...

Remember, block is your friend! That and just staying in lounge makes me a happier camper.

 

[devhen]

Quote:

Can someone double check my approximate calculations to see if the C421 would drive the DT 880 600 ohm version?
 
C421: 28 mw at 600 ohms (Based on C5 measurements, I believe they have the same output)
O2: 77mw at 600 ohms
Magni: 130 mw at 600 ohms
 
You will need 1mw to drive the DT 880 600 ohm to 96 db. (10 * the sound pressure of listening level, 85 db)
 
Average listening level should be 80 - 85 db in order to prevent long term damage to the ears.
 
All of them will push the DT 880 600 ohms to over 110 db, and your ears will bleed. Around 20 mw needed to reach 109 db, so the C421 will drive the DT 880s?

 
There's no reason to use the 600 ohm 880 with those amps, if you can help it. Get the 250 ohm or 32 ohm version instead. They'll sound as good or better and have much more usable volume range.
 
My Lake People G109-S puts out 19 volts and 600mW at 600 ohms and there are still times when I don't quite have as much volume as I'd like, when listening to old un-compressed music that is recorded quite low for example, something like the original version of Talking Head's Remain In Light, or some movies. I keep seeing all these posts about how little power it requires to get headphones loud but my experience doesn't match up with it at all. The specs may say 28mW is enough or 100mW is enough but for me it hasn't been. For example, I'm not sure how much my iBasso D-Zero is putting out at 600 ohms but I'd suspect its something low like 28mW and no it does not adequately drive my 600 ohm DT770s, not even close, and would be a poor pairing even if it weren't for the distortion the D-Zero has on high gain with the volume maxed.

 

[TrollDragon]

Quote:

Remember, block is your friend!

That and just staying in lounge makes me a happier camper.

I hear ya good sir!

 

[Bill-P]

How do you figure that?   100 mW into a DT880 600 ohm version would give you an output of about 114 db. Plenty loud enough to be very uncomfortable even for a few seconds and would cause permanent damage to your hearing after a few minutes.

If you're listening to classical, or music with high dynamic range (as in there are passages that are extremely quiet and then passages that are very loud), then you'll find that 114dB is just short of giving you that "live performance" feel.

And that's not even considering the amp's ability to keep things steady while supplying that much voltage to the 600 Ohm headphone.

 

[asdafaasda]

Quote:

Quote:

Can someone double check my approximate calculations to see if the C421 would drive the DT 880 600 ohm version?
 
C421: 28 mw at 600 ohms (Based on C5 measurements, I believe they have the same output)
O2: 77mw at 600 ohms
Magni: 130 mw at 600 ohms
 
You will need 1mw to drive the DT 880 600 ohm to 96 db. (10 * the sound pressure of listening level, 85 db)
 
Average listening level should be 80 - 85 db in order to prevent long term damage to the ears.
 
All of them will push the DT 880 600 ohms to over 110 db, and your ears will bleed. Around 20 mw needed to reach 109 db, so the C421 will drive the DT 880s?

 
There's no reason to use the 600 ohm 880 with those amps, if you can help it. Get the 250 ohm or 32 ohm version instead. They'll sound as good or better and have much more usable volume range.
 
My Lake People G109-S puts out 19 volts and 600mW at 600 ohms and there are still times when I don't quite have as much volume as I'd like, when listening to old un-compressed music that is recorded quite low for example, something like the original version of Talking Head's Remain In Light, or some movies. I keep seeing all these posts about how little power it requires to get headphones loud but my experience doesn't match up with it at all. The specs may say 28mW is enough or 100mW is enough but for me it hasn't been. For example, I'm not sure how much my iBasso D-Zero is putting out at 600 ohms but I'd suspect its something low like 28mW and no it does not adequately drive my 600 ohm DT770s, not even close, and would be a poor pairing even if it weren't for the distortion the D-Zero has on high gain with the volume maxed.

Thanks for your input! These are actually for a potential buyer of my C421, so I'll let him know your thoughts.

 

[cdbob]

So overall would that be a yes for the C421 being able to drive the DT880s or not? That math seems to check out, but it's difficult to find anything other than this thread. I've been looking for a few hours now and everywhere else I go opinions seem to subjective rather than objective.

 

[stv014]

Quote:

So overall would that be a yes for the C421 being able to drive the DT880s or not?

 
There is no definite answer that universally applies to everyone. Power requirements depend greatly on the type of music (low vs. high dynamic range) and personal preferences; remember, every additional 10 dB (which is perceived as about double volume) means 10 times more power. You really need to try it and decide yourself. But if you do not already have the C421, and portability is not needed, then you could simply get the Magni or the O2 instead, which I think are even cheaper.

 

[Makiah S]

Oh boy, you should have these formulas in small finger so to speak, or at least know where to look for them when you forget them (which happens to everyone).
I could not even dream of getting into any tech related university without knowing loads of physics and maths in my country, and this is rly very very basic stuff.

well thats why im in algebra. n tech is not electrical engineering. Still im in South Carolina. Americas third most un intelligent state... my high school program sucked lol

that being u do come off as a snobby know it all . Still im learning this stuff. I used to b a chef so dont let me start with u on food ^^

that said i agree in the c4. 250 will sound much better and i agree with the classical statement. i enjoy classical on my dt 990 nd it does take some power to get em loud enough

also Kingwa assured my that the audio gd 10.32 would drive the beyers too loud b4 n destroy my hearing b4 it ruined the drivers

 

[cdbob]

Never mind on the questions, returning my DT880s.
 
Bigger problems right now.

 

[derbigpr]

Quote:

well thats why im in algebra. n tech is not electrical engineering. Still im in South Carolina. Americas third most un intelligent state... my high school program sucked lol

that being u do come off as a snobby know it all

. Still im learning this stuff. I used to b a chef so dont let me start with u on food ^^

that said i agree in the c4. 250 will sound much better and i agree with the classical statement. i enjoy classical on my dt 990 nd it does take some power to get em loud enough

also Kingwa assured my that the audio gd 10.32 would drive the beyers too loud b4 n destroy my hearing b4 it ruined the drivers

 
 
Well, I dont want to come of as a know it all, its nothing against you personally, I'm just teasing you lol,  its against your countries education system. I'm not saying people should know hundreds of formulas, but without being familiar with even the basic concepts, which these are,  you couldn't go trough highschool where I come from, let alone get into a tech related collage. I had to know physics in MUCH greater detail than this in order to get into med school, and 95% of that stuff I'll never need in my career, but comes handy in a lot of situations.

 

[derbigpr]

Quote:

If you're listening to classical, or music with high dynamic range (as in there are passages that are extremely quiet and then passages that are very loud), then you'll find that 114dB is just short of giving you that "live performance" feel.

And that's not even considering the amp's ability to keep things steady while supplying that much voltage to the 600 Ohm headphone.

 
 
It doesn't matter whether you're listening to classical with high dynamic range or something from the loudness war era. 114 db is still 114 db, regardless of whether you have to turn your amps volume pot to 40% or 80%.  Whether its constantly that loud, which would be horribly loud to listen to, or only in a few passages, its still as loud as that headphone will safely go, few db up or down. Putting considerably more power into them won't do anything else than damage the drivers.  114 db at peaks is too loud even for listening to live classical recordings with a very high dynamic range. Even if most of the stuff you hear is at 90-95 db, which is already loud, 114 db peaks would be very uncomfortable.
 
I don't think I've ever heard my DT880 distort, but I never felt it wasnt loud enough. In fact, I gave up before it did during the "lets see how loud this Infected Mushroom song will play" challenge, which cannot be said for the HD650's for example, which start distorting pretty quickly, actually disappointingly quickly. Even plugged into a cheap speaker amp headphone output, there's plenty of power and current to keep DT880's (600) satisfied up to I assume as loud as they can possibly play.