[Miko 7]

Fortunately we do all hear differently and obviously have different ears! My family and I went to the beach for a week back in early July and I even slept in my Masters every night with good seal and no pain I understand your point, if you can't get a good fit/seal your never going to reach a palpable much less musical experience. Don't loose hope though as "The Bob" will be back at the drawing board (I'm actually 99.9% sure he never left it) and we shall see more of his visions and our desires come true No pressure @JustBobski

We for sure do because I'm missing a couple dBs in 4-6kHz. What was great about the Masters is the sheer amount of immense detail, and what's great about the Icarus 3 is that you can really crank the volume and the sound scales BEAUTIFULLY (almost feels like a log curve function on your volume knob) !!! And with the gold undamped on the ic3 you do get some of that magic from the Masters, I slept in mine for 3 months every night so I'm pretty familiar with every single filter and I hear some of their good qualities in the ic3

I have spent so many thousands of hours (literally) listening to Bobs IEMs that I can hear where he's going with every new creation I get to spend time with. The R1 will be the one that I have high hopes for the new sonic frontier he's headed to, but I really want to hear it before I buy it, maybe someone will let me borrow theirs for an MSRP deposit if I cover shipping or maybe it'll go on tour for sound impressions

 

[Midgetguy]

We for sure do because I'm missing a couple dBs in 4-6kHz. What was great about the Masters is the sheer amount of immense detail, and what's great about the Icarus 3 is that you can really crank the volume and the sound scales BEAUTIFULLY (almost feels like a log curve function on your volume knob) !!! And with the gold undamped on the ic3 you do get some of that magic from the Masters, I slept in mine for 3 months every night so I'm pretty familiar with every single filter and I hear some of their good qualities in the ic3

I have spent so many thousands of hours (literally) listening to Bobs IEMs that I can hear where he's going with every new creation I get to spend time with. The R1 will be the one that I have high hopes for the new sonic frontier he's headed to, but I really want to hear it before I buy it, maybe someone will let me borrow theirs for an MSRP deposit if I cover shipping or maybe it'll go on tour for sound impressions

I'd be willing to do that with you if I end up buying it. What if we just split the cost? You get it Jan-Jun, I get Jul-Dec

 

[Miko 7]

I'd be willing to do that with you if I end up buying it. What if we just split the cost? You get it Jan-Jun, I get Jul-Dec

Haha an IEM time share!

If I wasn't in engineering school I'd open up an online rental store for personal audio equipment, may not be a ton of money in it but should be able to live comfortable, and most important everyone gets to hear every IEM/DAP/DAC/AMP out there regardless of their financial status

 

[barondla]

Wonder if IEMs have taken a wrong path? Looking at highend home speakers, there are all kinds of drivers. The majority of highend speakers are multi driver dynamics. Looking at mid range on up IEMs, we mostly get balanced armature, single full range dynamic, or hybrid dynamic/ balanced armature.

Single full range dynamic drivers struggle to excel at extended bass and treble. The industry tends to "fix" this by adding balanced armatures. Fine, but where are the dynamic multi driver IEM? Are there no dynamic tweeters? I would love to hear a 2 way dynamic woofer/ dynamic tweeter IEM. Can't imagine a dynamic tweeter being much larger or or more expensive than a BA.

 

[Remiam7]

We for sure do because I'm missing a couple dBs in 4-6kHz. What was great about the Masters is the sheer amount of immense detail, and what's great about the Icarus 3 is that you can really crank the volume and the sound scales BEAUTIFULLY (almost feels like a log curve function on your volume knob) !!! And with the gold undamped on the ic3 you do get some of that magic from the Masters, I slept in mine for 3 months every night so I'm pretty familiar with every single filter and I hear some of their good qualities in the ic3

I have spent so many thousands of hours (literally) listening to Bobs IEMs that I can hear where he's going with every new creation I get to spend time with. The R1 will be the one that I have high hopes for the new sonic frontier he's headed to, but I really want to hear it before I buy it, maybe someone will let me borrow theirs for an MSRP deposit if I cover shipping or maybe it'll go on tour for sound impressions

It sure would be interesting to get your take on the Hunter. I did a small comparison today with my Pono Player in normal mode, no balanced. The Icarus III sounded as if only half the band showed up, whereas the Hunter sounded as if the the band and next door neighbors showed up to play.

 

[JustBobski]

Wonder if IEMs have taken a wrong path? Looking at highend home speakers, there are all kinds of drivers. The majority of highend speakers are multi driver dynamics. Looking at mid range on up IEMs, we mostly get balanced armature, single full range dynamic, or hybrid dynamic/ balanced armature.

Single full range dynamic drivers struggle to excel at extended bass and treble. The industry tends to "fix" this by adding balanced armatures. Fine, but where are the dynamic multi driver IEM? Are there no dynamic tweeters? I would love to hear a 2 way dynamic woofer/ dynamic tweeter IEM. Can't imagine a dynamic tweeter being much larger or or more expensive than a BA.

Personally I've had enough of armatures and the limitations they present (many will disagree). The issue you raise over dynamics is a good one but unlike home systems the big issue is space in an iem and the problems that presents with sonics and the adverse effect they can have on each other.

 

[Midgetguy]

Wonder if IEMs have taken a wrong path? Looking at highend home speakers, there are all kinds of drivers. The majority of highend speakers are multi driver dynamics. Looking at mid range on up IEMs, we mostly get balanced armature, single full range dynamic, or hybrid dynamic/ balanced armature.

Single full range dynamic drivers struggle to excel at extended bass and treble. The industry tends to "fix" this by adding balanced armatures. Fine, but where are the dynamic multi driver IEM? Are there no dynamic tweeters? I would love to hear a 2 way dynamic woofer/ dynamic tweeter IEM. Can't imagine a dynamic tweeter being much larger or or more expensive than a BA.

This is an interesting concept to say the least. SOMEONE's gotta be experimenting with it somewhere. For example, pretty sure there are some Chi-Fi IEMs that say they have 3 dynamic drivers. Actually, just found it as I switched tabs for a quick look: Yinjw P8 was the thing I was thinking of. I'm sure there are more out there.

 

[Jackpot77]

...dammit Bobby.

That's exactly the sound I want.

More meat than the Icarus 3, more timbre, good soundstage without compromising the feel and detailed authenticity of the highs, the sound needs to have a binjding material from the bottom to the top. I want something that vibes and oozes emotion

If you ever get a chance, check out the Vega from Campfire. It's very expensive, but it ticks pretty much most of those boxes.

 

[Jackpot77]

Personally I've had enough of armatures and the limitations they present (many will disagree). The issue you raise over dynamics is a good one but unlike home systems the big issue is space in an iem and the problems that presents with sonics and the adverse effect they can have on each other.

Is this the new era of the high end dynamic driver, you think?

 

[JustBobski]

Is this the new era of the high end dynamic driver, you think?

I think its heading that way. The guys who build my drivers for me are just perfecting the material processes and tolerances constantly and right now its exciting times. I think BA will always have a place but unless there are some major advancements I don't think we are going to get anything new from BA's.

 

[barondla]

Personally I've had enough of armatures and the limitations they present (many will disagree). The issue you raise over dynamics is a good one but unlike home systems the big issue is space in an iem and the problems that presents with sonics and the adverse effect they can have on each other.

I can see size being a problem. But there are IEMs with 12 + BA in them. My Flare have a 5.5mm full range micro driver. A dynamic tweeter driver could be made much smaller. Perhaps the problem is no one builds the driver yet?

Interference between drivers could be a problem. Couldn't the tweeter be totally seperated from the woofer in seperate chambers? Using 2 tunnels in the nozzle might stop the interference.

@JustBobski spoke with the designer/maufacturer of highly regarded $30k home speakers. He doesn't do headphones. Somehow we got on BA drivers. Can't really print his exact feelings of them. He thought they were pretty awful drivers. Narrow bandwidth, ringy, and poor time domain performance.

 

[JustBobski]

I can see size being a problem. But there are IEMs with 12 + BA in them. My Flare have a 5.5mm full range micro driver. A dynamic tweeter driver could be made much smaller. Perhaps the problem is no one builds the driver yet?

Interference between drivers could be a problem. Couldn't the tweeter be totally seperated from the woofer in seperate chambers? Using 2 tunnels in the nozzle might stop the interference.

@JustBobski spoke with the designer/maufacturer of highly regarded $30k home speakers. He doesn't do headphones. Somehow we got on BA drivers. Can't really print his exact feelings of them. He thought they were pretty awful drivers. Narrow bandwidth, ringy, and poor time domain performance.

At 5.5mm they won't ever be full range sadly, you've got to go large

You could chamber them for sure but you would also need to vector them to combine at the point of entry to the ear.

As for the guy you spoke to I have to agree for the most part, I have tried 100's of BA's and very very few are actually any good, even 2 of the biggest manufacturers i struggle to see what many of their range is good for apart from combining into a stupid number driver config just to get a couple of % over what a high end dynamic can do and even that couple of % is now going to be gone as many driver manufacturers are looking back at old designs and improving them to exceed anything before.

 

[Miko 7]

If you ever get a chance, check out the Vega from Campfire. It's very expensive, but it ticks pretty much most of those boxes.

I do want to hear them badly, especially before I spend that much money on them. I have their cheapest dynamic driver offering and I truly love them as dailys, but there's gotta be more and not at nearly twice the price. But if I hear them and they are what I've been looking for then I'll gladly pay (and be scared to use them haha)

 

[Miko 7]

At 5.5mm they won't ever be full range sadly, you've got to go large

You could chamber them for sure but you would also need to vector them to combine at the point of entry to the ear.

As for the guy you spoke to I have to agree for the most part, I have tried 100's of BA's and very very few are actually any good, even 2 of the biggest manufacturers i struggle to see what many of their range is good for apart from combining into a stupid number driver config just to get a couple of % over what a high end dynamic can do and even that couple of % is now going to be gone as many driver manufacturers are looking back at old designs and improving them to exceed anything before.

I often hear mentioned the use of BAs for sound isolation. Can a dynamic driver IEM be set up with a one-way valve or frequency canceling system at the port?

One more question I've been meaning to ask, can I weld up the port at the back of the can of my Delta V2 and relocate to the side of the shell that is not in freestream at speed? If so do you remember the size?

 

[Richsvt]

I am a big fan of the multi BA configuration. I think Campfire has done a wonderful job with the tuning. I am also really liking some of the hybrids out there, the IBasso IT03 comes to mind. Very nice low end with a touch of sparkle. And to cover all my basses, try Dan Wiggins' Periodic Audio Beryllium IEM, Single DD that has some fine tuning. Really a great piece that can hit where it needs to.

So now that I have stepped into each camp, I'm in favor of the tuning and resonances (or lack thereof) to what can be done. Truly the driver can make a huge difference in how the sound is delivered but it is the craftsman who can dial in the correct tuning characteristics that is where the sweet sound will be presented.

I say, bring on the new designs, let's test them out. I'm game...