[stvc]

Why not just use AK240 balance line out to 71B?

 
Well, my intension is to go portable so i had no intension to add amp to it.

 

[CosmicHolyGhost]

I suggested the Mezzo Mod because @stvc mentioned: "I think i will take the portability and maybe RWAK mod". The Mezzo AK120 is even smaller, and uses the TRRS 3,5mm standard that has been in use since 2002. 

I thought the ak240 dac section should be better?

 

[shigzeo]

I won't argue on that front. If you really dig the 120 DAC, the Mezzo option delivers balanced output, utilises the dual micro SD card slots of the 120, bypasses the internal headphone amp, delivers no noise, and taps that DAC directly. It sounds amazing. Do I think the AK240 DAC is better? It certainly does some things more directly. But the AK240 itself, isn't tapping into the potential of its DAC to the same degree the Mezzo Hifi mod is. 

 

[flymetothemoon]

   
Well, my intension is to go portable so i had no intension to add amp to it.

+1

 

[stvc]

  It's $500 & $800 depending on the mod requested. I'm all about people being paid for their time and parts and making a profit. I've been a business owner almost my whole adult life.
 
What parts are used, for the $500 mod?
How long in time does it take to do?  Anyone know?

 
If saying about the part cost, i think Ak240 cost not more than 350 USD. The mod definitely take less than 2 hour to do so.

 

[SilverEars]

  I won't argue on that front. If you really dig the 120 DAC, the Mezzo option delivers balanced output, utilises the dual micro SD card slots of the 120, bypasses the internal headphone amp, delivers no noise, and taps that DAC directly. It sounds amazing. Do I think the AK240 DAC is better? It certainly does some things more directly. But the AK240 itself, isn't tapping into the potential of its DAC to the same degree the Mezzo Hifi mod is. 

I recall somebody  saying that one the AK00 was just an attenuator at the HP out.  Is the HPO really just an attenuation of the DAC for the AK100?  Could this be the same for the 120 and 240?  
 

Originally Posted by vkalia /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 

  So this is basically an expensive ui with LO.  I thought the whole point of buying an expensive DAP is for it's analog ability.

 
The AK100 doesnt have a gain stage (only an output buffer) after the D/A conversion - the volume control is an attenuator only.   
 
So by passing it, you arent really giving up on any "analog magic".  
 
Of course, it is doubtful what you gain either - b/c if you just set the volume to max, you are, in essence, getting the signal out of the DAC, just having gone through a buffer stage.

 

[stvc]

  I won't argue on that front. If you really dig the 120 DAC, the Mezzo option delivers balanced output, utilises the dual micro SD card slots of the 120, bypasses the internal headphone amp, delivers no noise, and taps that DAC directly. It sounds amazing. Do I think the AK240 DAC is better? It certainly does some things more directly. But the AK240 itself, isn't tapping into the potential of its DAC to the same degree the Mezzo Hifi mod is. 

I agree what you say, 2 reason why i never look into Mezzo option. 1st i had already own RWAK120-B, i don't think i want get back the same player that equal to my RWAK120-B with only different in volume control. Further more i had no access to listen to them. 2nd thing is i like the AK240 respond better. The portable i'm saying is 1pcs setup not the dimension of the DAP. 120 and 240 not really big different in size (IMO). I also check with Vinnie if the AK240 better, and his respond below.
 
"The headphone output stage is better with the AK240.  I still like the WM8741 dac better though (with non-DSD).  But fully modded, the RWAK240 is better"
 
I got no idea if they are really better until i can test them... agains... up to personal reference? 

 

[shigzeo]

Yes, I think every audio device is subject at the end to one thing: personal preference. And that isn't a bad thing. It's a good thing, a neighbourhood thing. That said, certain things are benchmarkable and stand up to claims from manufacturers. As much as I like the AK240, its noise floor is too high for what it purports to do, and ultimately, its headphone output isn't good enough for the majority of the phones that will click into its bits. 
 
The Mezzo succeeds in both areas. I'd love for the AK series to go back to the size of the AK100/120. The current standard is too large, and tied to too unwieldy of software when compared to some of the excellent ones seen in the smart phone world. I hope you really enjoy your player. I am. 

 

[stvc]

  Yes, I think every audio device is subject at the end to one thing: personal preference. And that isn't a bad thing. It's a good thing, a neighbourhood thing. That said, certain things are benchmarkable and stand up to claims from manufacturers. As much as I like the AK240, its noise floor is too high for what it purports to do, and ultimately, its headphone output isn't good enough for the majority of the phones that will click into its bits. 
 
The Mezzo succeeds in both areas. I'd love for the AK series to go back to the size of the AK100/120. The current standard is too large, and tied to too unwieldy of software when compared to some of the excellent ones seen in the smart phone world. I hope you really enjoy your player. I am. 

Indeed. I also agree the SE out are not good enough on AK240 that the reason why i didn't get them on the earlier stage but only recent as i got a chance to listen to balance out with my Roxanne. Hopefully it pair well my MH334, can't wait!
 
I don't think they will came to "phone" standard interface. They are too far from the phone standard haha. Of course i'm enjoy them 

.

 

[Saraugie]

   
If saying about the part cost, i think Ak240 cost not more than 350 USD. The mod definitely take less than 2 hour to do so.

So you think R.W.A. uses $350 worth of new parts when he does the mod and less than 2 hours to do it?

 

[stvc]

  So you think R.W.A. uses $350 worth of new parts when he does the mod and less than 2 hours to do it?

I mean the entire AK240 cost haha. How much can be 2000uF capacitor cost, and a Jfet cost? Much much cheaper... what he charge purely the engineering cost. 

 

[SilverEars]

  I mean the entire AK240 cost haha. How much can be 2000uF capacitor cost, and a Jfet cost? Much much cheaper... what he charge purely the engineering cost. 

Why the Jfet?  The cap I can understand to DC decouple.

 

[Saraugie]

  I mean the entire AK240 cost haha. How much can be 2000uF capacitor cost, and a Jfet cost? Much much cheaper... what he charge purely the engineering cost. 

LOL....I bet your right...maybe a little more on the parts. And R&D needs to be costed in.
 
As far as RWD, I think paying a skilled craftsmen 50$ per hour and the owner of the company 50% more than that is way reasonable. Go crazy, $100 a hour. 
My highest paid tech, master technician with every certificate and license he could get, got paid $38 an hour plus benes.
 
I may be mistaken but the cost of the mod was based on what could be charged, the fact that if we could afford $2500 for player, why not 20% more for the mod.
The actual labor, parts, and R&D time, TO ME, do not seem to warrant $500. But hey opinions are like armpits.........we all have them and they usually stink
 
I'm a big boy if I got wrong, I'd be the first to cop to it. If Vinnie would care to comment I'm sure it would be welcomed by all.

 

[Saraugie]

  Yes, I think every audio device is subject at the end to one thing: personal preference. And that isn't a bad thing. It's a good thing, a neighbourhood thing. That said, certain things are benchmarkable and stand up to claims from manufacturers. As much as I like the AK240, its noise floor is too high for what it purports to do, and ultimately, its headphone output isn't good enough for the majority of the phones that will click into its bits. 
 
The Mezzo succeeds in both areas. I'd love for the AK series to go back to the size of the AK100/120. The current standard is too large, and tied to too unwieldy of software when compared to some of the excellent ones seen in the smart phone world. I hope you really enjoy your player. I am. 

My gosh I listened today with the 334s SE 000 cable for about an hour and had a few WOW moments. I wonder how it can get much better than it is?

 

[flymetothemoon]

  I mean the entire AK240 cost haha. How much can be 2000uF capacitor cost, and a Jfet cost? Much much cheaper... what he charge purely the engineering cost. 

The majority of the cost would be Vinnie's R&D costs as we never know how much time and effort that he put behind at the beginning before a successful mod model is derived. 
 
I bet the margin of cosmetic products is even larger and the darn thing is that "she" will wash it away only after some 10-15 hours after putting on.  That's a sounded business model LOL.