The Astell & Kern AK120
May 11, 2013 at 9:39 AM Post #151 of 7,071
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Spkrs, please stop seducing us and remember we want gold :-D

Btw, how ak120 vs Terra or DX100? To date Terra sound was claimed to be the best in portable world, did it change with ak120?

 
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That's what he's good at:wink:

 
LOL
 
Please...................
size]

 
I rate this at around 81points in the whole scheme of things, with the best I have heard so far with (C)IEMs/Cans at around 84.5points but that is on a desk top system, lots of cables etc....
 
Referencing from a Steinway Concert Grand played well, at 100points and my home rig at 98points
 
May 11, 2013 at 9:45 AM Post #152 of 7,071
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LOL
 
Please...................
size]

 
I rate this at around 81points in the whole scheme of things, with the best I have heard so far with (C)IEMs/Cans at around 84.5points but that is on a desk top system, lots of cables etc....
 
Referencing from a Steinway Concert Grand played well, at 100points and my home rig at 98points

 
Can you share, to give some reference? Also, where do you put the Tera on that scale?
 
May 11, 2013 at 9:46 AM Post #153 of 7,071
Quote:
 
 
LOL
 
Please...................
size]

 
I rate this at around 81points in the whole scheme of things, with the best I have heard so far with (C)IEMs/Cans at around 84.5points but that is on a desk top system, lots of cables etc....
 
Referencing from a Steinway Concert Grand played well, at 100points and my home rig at 98points


You forgot: me singing at 110 points.
 
May 11, 2013 at 10:05 AM Post #154 of 7,071
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Can you share, to give some reference? Also, where do you put the Tera on that scale?

 
At present some Soulution electronics, Stealth cables........some turntables and the usual power/ harmonic/ mechanical tweeks.
 
I am in the process of revamping my whole system. I don't imagine improving, rather a matter give or take in order to suit changes in musical tastes and convenience...........and am thinking of building a system around the Wadax Pre One and Hermes Digital Streamer and start archiving my vinyl to digital format.
 
Tera is at around 80points as a standalone and the first Dap for me to reach 80points..........
 
May 11, 2013 at 10:24 AM Post #158 of 7,071
It seems to me that the whole 'Astell & Kern' thing looks rather like a cynical exercise in marketing the perception of uber-high-end, when, in reality, the actual product electronics may be somewhere between upper-mid and high end. But push the perception of uber-high-end, with slick marketing and a pretentious-sounding name and there will always be some who will swallow that kool-aid every time. Apple have been doing it for years with the iPhone, making a 'nice' product with 'nice' engineering, but charging outrageous prices and spending vast sums of money on marketing, so that all the kool-aid drinkers believe they 'simply must' have each iteration of the device and that they'll be the envy of all their friends, and that it 'must be' better than less-glamourous competing devices. And what happened to the iPhone? The wheels have started to wobble on that particular kool-aid wagon, as competitors such as Samsung GS2/3/4 and HTC One are offering at least equal performance, and, in some aspects, superior performance, and all at a significantly lower price.
 
I'm confident that the AK120 is probably 'quite a good product', and I do like the smaller form factor than the DX100 and HM-901, but whilst (in terms of pricing) some of the kool-aid drinkers may be fooled, it doesn't fool me. I personally view this pricing structure as a cynical exercise in influencing the marketplace's perception of the performance of the 'Astell & Kern' branded products. IMO, €1299 euros is greedy. Just because it contains 2 DACs and has a €1299 euro price tag does not make me automatically believe it is worth €1299 euros in terms of componentry, engineering, and performance.
 
So shocked was I by the pricing of the AK120, that the following imaginary scenario ran through my mind, of a fictitious board meeting (let me stress that these words are from my imagination, not from actual reality anywhere else on planet earth):
 
 
"What is the latest uber-high-end product in the DAP marketplace?"
"The HM-901"
"OK, what is the main USP of the HM-901?"
"Dual DAC implementation. Oh, and oversized manual volume control wheel"
"OK, and what other features are becoming more desirable in high-end DAPs at the moment"
"Dual SD/MicroSD card slots"
"OK, so if the existing AK100 design were to be modified so as to include 2 DACs, could it be marketed heavily so as to elicit close to $1500 bucks?; By including 2 DACs, could people be made to perceive it as superior to the HM-901, if it's made to look shiny and slick enough? If the HDP-R10s DSD playback was thrown in for good measure, people would probably throw their cash at it, no matter how much mark-up was demanded, wouldn't they..?"
 
 
I apologise for my cynicism but it's only in response to what I perceive to be exceptionally cynical pricing.
 
 
If the AK120 truly sounds better than the DX100 (and I don't mean just one or two enthusiastic fans; I mean a broad, time-matured, consensus of opinion), then I'll eat my hat. Slick appearance is nice but it counts for very little if the SQ may (perhaps - it remains to be seen) not match something costing $500 bucks less. It also counts for very little if the device has a relatively high output impedance making it struggle to drive low-impedance multi-BA CIEMs to a standard one should rightly expect of a €1299 euro DAP, and, after all, many well-heeled DAP-buyers will commonly use low-impedance multi-BA CIEMs whilst out and about. The whole AK100 after-market mod debacle is a case in point, and instead of admitting the issue, it appears iRiver chose a less friendly approach.
 
 
For the record, I would not be giving the AK120 a hard time if it was't being marketed at such an outrageous price. This is not anything to do with whether I can afford it or not. It is purely and simply to do with the fact that I view the price tag as cynical and greedy, having seemingly insufficient substance to justify it.
 
If the AK120 was marketed at, say, $950, many people (of those fortunate enough to be able to afford it) would be keen to give it a try. iRiver and their agents, retailers etc. would still have a healthy mark-up at that price-point.
 
 
I also feel the Tera player is overpriced, BTW, even though it's made by more costly German labour and may well sound wonderful. The same goes for some of the after-market speciality cable vendors (some of whom are some of the very worst offenders, in terms of mark-up).
 
iRiver are therefore, not the only vendors charging (in my view) over the odds, but that still doesn't justify the practice.
 
 
Thank goodness for the likes of Fiio, who keep things real by seeking to provide customers with features the desire, and at a very fair price. They may not be perfect, but their way of doing business with their customers is an object lesson for many other vendors in the DAP marketplace.
 
.
 
May 11, 2013 at 10:25 AM Post #159 of 7,071
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^^^ Thanks! The vinyl archiving sounds like a fun (and time consuming) project.

 
Yeah it will be fun and time consuming but this is what's so attractive about the Wadax:-
 
 
MusIC ASIC CHIPS: The MusIC™ ASIC, a 480-pin device that moves 6.4 GBytes of extreme quality audio data per second, greater than 9000 times the CD standard. It is the “computational engine” of the PRE1.
 
Hermes provides the PRE One Mk2 with recording ability, so a vinyl record can be stored at the 128 bit native resolution of the musIC chips and taking advantage of the mapping process. This ensures not only the most accurate quality today, but also a performance improvement as DAC chips evolve.
 
May 11, 2013 at 10:26 AM Post #160 of 7,071
^^^ Thanks! The vinyl archiving sounds like a fun (and time consuming) project.


must be a headache when many vynil... also i had some vynil ripped flacs and they sounded never as good, so it is too early to dampen vynil imho

as regards scoring vs. front end this is best way to measure hearing perception... i have not as finicky front end but no dap i have can emulate its liveliness or musicality, i prefer actually live concert sound and measure my system vs. live sound always... on the 100 scale i would give my front end 65 maximum... you ask why? because i used to play in a small group and was DJing in younger years and know how things must sound and reverb. for instance my system never can move the air the way concert equipment and proper acoustic does. anyway, i would rate Rwak 100 as only 40 score and c3 amped at 30... but again it all boils to personal taste and hearing, we all are different afte all and hear things not the same way.

yes, of course Me singing gets 110 score but you better put on your helmets before i begin :-D
 
May 11, 2013 at 10:36 AM Post #164 of 7,071
€1300 is madness! I thought Tera Player was overpriced.. I rather spend that kind of money for a real decent desktop dac like Metrum Octave.
 
May 11, 2013 at 10:57 AM Post #165 of 7,071
Only time will tell if AK120 will be widely accepted at that price so we can all leave the RRP bashing aside first.
 
I am more interested to see how much improvement is there over the AK100.
 

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