The All New Earsonics SM3 Appreciation, Discussion and Review Thread!

[music_4321]

^^ Good points there, slaters70 & average_joe.

average_joe, at least there's no doubt we both agree on one thing: the ES3X easily outclasses the EM3 Pro. 

 

[shane55]

Quote:

Having owned the W3, SM3, UM3X, IE8, W2, CK10, all $200+ IEMs (though I got them all new from authorized dealers for less then $240 for each pair, which was a very good deal in every case), I'm just glad I found IEMs I love. For me, the DBA-02's are the best IEM to suit my tastes, delivering the best sound, displaying almost a little bit of the best of all those individual top-tier IEMs. I know Joe and some others have heard the DBAs and prefer the SM3s, and of course that's fine with me. They are just different IEMs.
 
But tips/fit are so critical with almost any IEMs, they of course do change the way the IEMs perform, they can change the "inherent" sound because of the differences of people's ear canals. I tried every tip possible with the SM3s, including the UM56 customs and the Sensorcom bi-flanges (thanks to Joe lending me a pair), and I gave the SM3s plenty of burn-in time. The only way I could enjoy them, even with custom sleeves, was with the monster triple flanges and the treble EQ on the J3 (since sold) kicked up quite a bit (or using the "crystal clear" or one of the other treble-focused presets). But even with that, I still did A/B comparisons and chose the Fischer phones (un-EQ'd for the latter). Oddest thing is, unless I had tried the Ety triple flanges or the UM56s on the DBAs, I would have sold them too (too harsh with short tips). Believe me, I struggled with the decision, thinking there was no way a $160 IEM could outperform a $400+ IEM (which is what the SM3s cost me back then). In the end, I had to be honest with myself (and trust my ears). But there also was something LFF (Luis) said in his initial DBA review (and also via PM to me) that really stuck with me (his review got me to try the DBAs in the first place). 
 
Luis said he preferred the listening to the DBAs over his $1,000+ UE10 Pro customs, and was not in any way ashamed to admit it. That was a powerful statement coming from someone who had nothing to gain from saying as much. So that was enough for me to trust my ears and sell the SM3s (buying a second pair of DBAs with some of the proceeds, and a new iPod Touch with the rest of the cash).
 
As an ex-SM3 owner, I can remember the upside to the phones, but I could never quite get over what to me was a veiled aspect of its treble, though I certainly understand why some SM3 owners, even most, love their sound.
 
But the issue of superiority of one IEM over another, especially universals, has pretty much been rendered moot to me in this crazy hobby, as the DBA experience has brought that notion home to roost. With universals, tips, ear characteristics, fit, etc., are always going to cause as many different opinions as there are models (even more). For the most part, it's almost silly to argue for one model over another, regardless of price (though within reason). I have been part of that silliness, for sure. But now, after re-reading posts and thinking about it, the absurdity really has become obvious. It's such a futile pursuit, in fact, it's probably worth abandoning altogether. The SM3 experience has, I think, taught me a very good lesson on in-ear phones: Read a lot, then buy and sell stuff until you stumble into the ones that make you really happy. Finally, stop the madness and listen to music.
 

Indeed.
Still waiting for my DBA's to get through HK customs... arrrrrgh. Maybe they'll be right for me as well... I don't know. But I hope I find out soon.
 
I agree with your assessment of the SM3 and about tips in general. After all the tip testing and processes I had to go through to get good fits, seals, sound... it's just too much. It really shouldn't be that hard. The tips that seemed to sound the best in one respect (on the SM3) were the Sensorcoms. But I couldn't work the fit. Too difficult and uncomfortable for me. The Olives make some of my IEM's sound very good and the fit is fairly easy, with a good seal, but with these on the SM3 the sound was as you described.
 
And with the SE535's they'll go on sale as soon as my SM3's are shipped off on Monday. They weren't right either. Good, yes. Close... sure, but as I said my UM2's are for me what your DBA-02's are for you right now. They suite my sensibilities and sonic tastes better than anything else I've tried.
 
I'm very curious about the UM3x, and eagerly await music_bird's analysis (as his take on the SM3's was identical to mine. And I so favour the UM2).
 
After that... if these don't make it for me... maybe the Ety ER4S (or P).
 
In the end my goal is the best sound for my tastes. Simple really (or so I thought 

 ). More money certanly does not attain greater satisfaction. After that, it's ease of fit and usability. I can't get all worked up about any of this. It's fun... it's about music and enjoyment. When it begins to get tedious or difficult (or ridiculously personal)... I'm out.
 
cheers
 
shane
 

 

[koonhua90]

Quote:

 
 
I find that there is a dip around high-mids as well. 'She's Got You High' by Mumm-Ra was the first few songs I listened to when I received my SM3 (using stock comply tips that time), and I was so shocked that the cymbal crashes in the first few seconds was almost non existent. CK10 brings out the cymbal crashes clear and loud, IE8 handles the cymbal crashes pretty good. As for SM3, now I am using white biflange with them, though I can hear the cymbal crashes, just like what you said, cymbal crashes is placed too distant. Elevating up several decibels in the 2kHz-5kHz region does help to bring the cymbal crashes more upfront, and increasing overall clarity, in my opinion.
 
By the way, sorry if you have mentioned this somewhere, how would you compare the 'warmth' between JH16 and SM3?
 
 
 
At first I was sceptical when people say 'once you got into custom, there is no turning back'. Not that I have tried many high-end custom IEMs, but my reshelled UE10Pro kind of tempting me to get something like the JH's.
 
 
 
What I am doing now
 

The JH16 has no warmth that is inherent. It is better than the sm3 at being neutral and faithful to the music. Right now I don't have them in the ears,  so from memory except for the extra bass it is the most neutral earphone I have heard so far. The mid is magical on it, being extremely smooth, yet still maintaining the edginess when the music calls for it.

 

[Pianist]

 
Quote:

 

I honestly don't think what I get from my ES3X has anything to do with the "right signature" befitting to your preconceived liking. To me they are clearly technically better, sound right, more convincing, mainly having greater extension along the whole freq range. I don't think within high-end customs there's anything like what my ears heard from the SM3, SE530, 535 & CK10, at least from a technical standpoint.

If I didn't know the UM3X, to a lesser extent the W3 and more recently the IE8, and only knew the other IEMs listed in my sig, I would never have said that (high-end) customs were overrated, ie I'd probably have said "If you can afford them, try to get them. They are worth the price difference, even if obviously not two/ three times better"

To these ears the ES3X is significantly better SQ-wise than the SE530, SE535, SM3 & CK10 and therefore, definitely worth the upgrade. For me, though, as great as the W3 was, it became fatiguing too soon (after an hour or so), ie quite impressive & exciting for shorter listening sessions only. I think, for example, I might get a similar reaction from the UE11 Pro (but only guessing).

These days both UM3X & IE8 come with detachable cables and I still think that for most people seeking excellent EQ these two universals are a better choice than getting high-end customs. And, like I said over a year ago, $300 - $400 is already A LOT of money. But, from memory - and hopefully I'll be able to confirm this shortly - the UM3X was an even better (technically) IEM than the IE8.

 
Interesting. Personally, I disliked the ES3X and much prefer the sound of SM3 and SE530. ES3X had great clarity, great extension and tight bass, but they seriously lack dynamic range and bass impact in my opinion.
 

 

[Bennyboy71]

As you can get 'amazing discounts' on them, why not get both, then sell the one you don't like, or both even, to Head-fiers at cost.  Win-win situation, no?

 

[MKang25]

Quote:

 
 
Interesting. Personally, I disliked the ES3X and much prefer the sound of SM3 and SE530. ES3X had great clarity, great extension and tight bass, but they seriously lack dynamic range and bass impact in my opinion.
 

*GASPS* WE HAVE A DISAGREEMENT ON A IEM? This is a first
Anyways interesting to see how people here these IEMS in polar opposites.

 

[music_4321]

 
Quote:

 
Interesting. Personally, I disliked the ES3X and much prefer the sound of SM3 and SE530. ES3X had great clarity, great extension and tight bass, but they seriously lack dynamic range and bass impact in my opinion.
 

Yes, I remember reading your negative views on your ES3X. There may be a number of reasons for this, but of course there's always the unlikely possibility that you indeed found both SE530 & SM3 to be better IEMs.

You're the only person on head-fi that I know of who prefers the SE530 & SM3 to their ES3X (I believe I'm the only other head-fier who's also had the ES3X, SM3, & SE530. I wonder if there was something wrong with your set, either a wrong fit (s), or faulty set -- eg problem with drivers, crossover, filters, and so on -- or a combination of both.
 
I had 3 refits (4 sets from 2 ear impressions) and the 2nd set didn't sound right, my UM3X sounding just a little better. The 3rd set sounded fine but there was a problem with the tips which were far too soft.

However, all 4 sets sounded better than the SE530s I had. My 1st & 4th sets were the best sounding ones. Good ear impressions are critical as well as Westone/ JH Audio/ UE/ Earsonics doing well their job. It's a hand-made product, not mass produced so things can easily go wrong (and they do), and if we don't know or are not able to detect what these wrong things are, we may simply believe this or that other IEM sounds better.

From virtually all accounts all high-end customs sound better than high-end universals. Some people will say their customs sound much, much better, others will say simply better or a little better, depending on which IEMs they had before, tips used, and so on.
 
One of the arguments I gave on the thread about my view that (high-end) customs were overrated is the not so uncommon 'nightmarish' process of getting it right. That process often implies spending extra money.
 

 

[average_joe]

 
Quote:

Having owned the W3, SM3, UM3X, IE8, W2, CK10, all $200+ IEMs (though I got them all new from authorized dealers for less then $240 for each pair, which was a very good deal in every case), I'm just glad I found IEMs I love. For me, the DBA-02's are the best IEM to suit my tastes, delivering the best sound, displaying almost a little bit of the best of all those individual top-tier IEMs. I know Joe and some others have heard the DBAs and prefer the SM3s, and of course that's fine with me. They are just different IEMs.
 
But tips/fit are so critical with almost any IEMs, they of course do change the way the IEMs perform, they can change the "inherent" sound because of the differences of people's ear canals. I tried every tip possible with the SM3s, including the UM56 customs and the Sensorcom bi-flanges (thanks to Joe lending me a pair), and I gave the SM3s plenty of burn-in time. The only way I could enjoy them, even with custom sleeves, was with the monster triple flanges and the treble EQ on the J3 (since sold) kicked up quite a bit (or using the "crystal clear" or one of the other treble-focused presets). But even with that, I still did A/B comparisons and chose the Fischer phones (un-EQ'd for the latter). Oddest thing is, unless I had tried the Ety triple flanges or the UM56s on the DBAs, I would have sold them too (too harsh with short tips). Believe me, I struggled with the decision, thinking there was no way a $160 IEM could outperform a $400+ IEM (which is what the SM3s cost me back then). In the end, I had to be honest with myself (and trust my ears). But there also was something LFF (Luis) said in his initial DBA review (and also via PM to me) that really stuck with me (his review got me to try the DBAs in the first place). 
 
Luis said he preferred the listening to the DBAs over his $1,000+ UE10 Pro customs, and was not in any way ashamed to admit it. That was a powerful statement coming from someone who had nothing to gain from saying as much. So that was enough for me to trust my ears and sell the SM3s (buying a second pair of DBAs with some of the proceeds, and a new iPod Touch with the rest of the cash).
 
As an ex-SM3 owner, I can remember the upside to the phones, but I could never quite get over what to me was a veiled aspect of its treble, though I certainly understand why some SM3 owners, even most, love their sound.
 
But the issue of superiority of one IEM over another, especially universals, has pretty much been rendered moot to me in this crazy hobby, as the DBA experience has brought that notion home to roost. With universals, tips, ear characteristics, fit, etc., are always going to cause as many different opinions as there are models (even more). For the most part, it's almost silly to argue for one model over another, regardless of price (though within reason). I have been part of that silliness, for sure. But now, after re-reading posts and thinking about it, the absurdity really has become obvious. It's such a futile pursuit, in fact, it's probably worth abandoning altogether. The SM3 experience has, I think, taught me a very good lesson on in-ear phones: Read a lot, then buy and sell stuff until you stumble into the ones that make you really happy. Finally, stop the madness and listen to music.
 

My guess is due to the shape/volume of peoples ears, some people will never be able to hear exactly the same thing others hear from IEMs, right?.  Then there is the different strokes for different folks part.  How I see it is some people prefer a general sound signature while others prefer other attributes of IEMs.  I like ultimate size of the presentation, for example, and in the past I preferred the ultimate space of the IE8 over the better detail but smaller soundstage of the W3.  While other people prefer the clarity in certain regions of the frequency spectrum regardless of the rest of the presentation.
 
I prefer the SM3 because to my ears they sound more like the real thing than other IEMs I heard up to that point.  While the DBAs and CK10s have fantastic detail and imaging, my brain interprets the sound, when compared with the SM3, as not as realistic.
 
There is nothing wrong with someone proclaiming what they prefer and why.  The real BS is when people try to discount others preferences or comments about how they hear something.  I am fairly certain I hear things differently as far as space goes than many others on here from my experiences with the IE8 on forward.  That is all fine and good and I am glad I hear things the way I do! 
 
Take slaters70 as well as many others for example...I prefer the SM3 to the DBA and don't hear it as warm and veiled as Slaters (of course tip dependent), but Slaters is the opposite.  No problem, we might actually be hearing things differently, but there is no real way of knowing.  But that doesn't diminish either of our experiences or opinions.  While I feel there can be technical superiority in headphones/IEMs, it doesn't matter if you don't like the way that superiority is presented!
 
And agreed, we should just listen (and enjoy) the music!

 

[cn11]

I think that sometimes people will hear one IEM differently than the majority of other owners. I had that happen with the e-Q7's. They were nothing like the descriptions I'd read on here. No matter what tip I tried I couldn't get anything close to what others described hearing even though it felt/sounded like a solid seal. This lead me to believe something was simply amiss with how they interacted with my particular ear canal shape, preventing me from hearing what they are capable of. I think this is partly responsible for the polar opposite descriptions with the SM3's. One owner recently commented that the IE8's sounded better even, yet to me when I compare the two the SM3's make the IE8's sound cloudy, dark, and so closed in that they are borderline unlistenable. The SM3's are worlds more detailed, layered, with treble that extends far beyond what the Sennheisers are capable of. I hear cymbals and triangles hanging in air so distinctly on the SM3's where the same passages are almost completely inaudible. 
 
Anyway, different strokes as the saying goes I suppose. 

 

[violinvirtuoso]

@koonhua
 
In this link: http://www.pcmag.com/slideshow_viewer/0,1205,l%3D0%26a%3D253606%26po%3D5,00.asp
 
What do you mean by this:
 
"The JH16 Pro has three drivers per ear; the UE 18 Pro has a whopping six"
 
From what I know, the JH16 has 8 drivers per ear, more than the UE18.

 

[average_joe]

 
Quote:

^^ Good points there, slaters70 & average_joe.

average_joe, at least there's no doubt we both agree on one thing: the ES3X easily outclasses the EM3 Pro. 

I would imagine the ES3X would be better than the SM3.  At least I would hope so, but I guess ti really comes down to how we hear them and preferences.
 
Quote:

I think that sometimes people will hear one IEM differently than the majority of other owners. I had that happen with the e-Q7's. They were nothing like the descriptions I'd read on here. No matter what tip I tried I couldn't get anything close to what others described hearing even though it felt/sounded like a solid seal. This lead me to believe something was simply amiss with how they interacted with my particular ear canal shape, preventing me from hearing what they are capable of. I think this is partly responsible for the polar opposite descriptions with the SM3's. One owner recently commented that the IE8's sounded better even, yet to me when I compare the two the SM3's make the IE8's sound cloudy, dark, and so closed in that they are borderline unlistenable. The SM3's are worlds more detailed, layered, with treble that extends far beyond what the Sennheisers are capable of. I hear cymbals and triangles hanging in air so distinctly on the SM3's where the same passages are almost completely inaudible. 
 
Anyway, different strokes as the saying goes I suppose. 

Yes, my first experience with the e-Q7 was not a great one, but I got mine replaced under warranty and the replaced one was so much better.  Maybe Music is onto something with the defective IEMs!  His SM3 must have been defective!
 
But to the point, I think people inherently hear IEMs differently.  Some people I know don't hear the major space differences I hear with various IEMs, for example.  If you take that out of the equation, that would change so much for me.  And back to decay...speed of decay can make something sound extra (artificially to my ears) clear, or on the flip side slow and lacking detail.

 

[rawrster]

I guess that's the mystery of this hobby. Two people can have the same conditions (earphone, tips, dap, etc) and hear things completely differently. I guess it's a good thing we have so many options out there

 

[music_4321]

 
Quote:

Originally Posted by music_4321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

average_joe, at least there's no doubt we both agree on one thing: the ES3X easily outclasses the EM3 Pro. 

 

Quote:

I would imagine the ES3X would be better than the SM3.  At least I would hope so, but I guess ti really comes down to how we hear them and preferences.
 

Yes, my first experience with the e-Q7 was not a great one, but I got mine replaced under warranty and the replaced one was so much better.  Maybe Music is onto something with the defective IEMs!  His SM3 must have been defective!
 
But to the point, I think people inherently hear IEMs differently.  Some people I know don't hear the major space differences I hear with various IEMs, for example.  If you take that out of the equation, that would change so much for me.  And back to decay...speed of decay can make something sound extra (artificially to my ears) clear, or on the flip side slow and lacking detail.

 
 
I guess, then, Slaters & Shane's SM3s were defective, too!
 

---

 
On a more serious note, we do hear things differently and...well... all the variables you may wish to bring to the table. At the end of the day only time will tell if it's only a handful of us who perceive the SM3s as veiled or if that perception gradually becomes a general consensus. That's is also how threads tend to develop.
 
However, I'd say that rather than hearing things differently, we describe things differently, ie we have similar perceptions but we often fail to articulate them or put them adequately into words.

 

[average_joe]

 
Quote:

I guess that's the mystery of this hobby. Two people can have the same conditions (earphone, tips, dap, etc) and hear things completely differently. I guess it's a good thing we have so many options out there

Source and music play a part, but I do think with IEMs the space/shape of the ear canal (imagine setting up speakers in a various hallways of different lengths, widths, heights, and with various curves!) is so defining of what you ultimately hear.  It does not seem to be the same as far as differences between what people hear for full sized cans.  Of course, with the higher end cans that are hard to drive, a low power amp won't be able to push a hard to drive can, resulting in poor sound (as my T1 before I got the RPX-33).

 

[average_joe]

Quote:

I guess, then, Slaters & Shane's SM3s were defective, too!
 

---

 
On a more serious note, we do hear things differently and...well... all the variables you may wish to bring to the table. At the end of the day only time will tell if it's only a handful of us who perceive the SM3s as veiled or if that perception gradually becomes a general consensus. That's is also how threads tend to develop.
 
However, I'd say that more than hearing things differently, we describe things differently, ie we have similar perceptions but we often fail to articulate them or put them adequately into words.

Yep, they must have been!  About as logical as two UM3Xs being defective, as well as 3 SE530s I have heard and didn't like!
 
And yes, true.  I say potato, you say potâto!
 
Will I be checking this thread when a consensus is made?  I hope not!