[SomeGuyDude]

I'm not sure one needs a definition, when some cans are able to project more recorded information to the listener than others; it's blatantly audible. As in the case of the X1 - fairly mediocre resolution - and the other two HPs you mentioned that excel in that regard. Their tonal balance is relatively similar, but the amount of detail, texture, space, focus, articulation, the layering of the tracks, and clarity differs greatly.
We're back to tonal balance. Are you still playing mostly MP3s?

Don't get me wrong. What you like is what you like. Your music, your money, your choice. I was just curious as to the determinants of preference.

 
Well that WAS a definition, and a fairly helpful one! XD By what you're saying, "resolution" and "clarity" aren't any different then. It just means how distinct the tiny details are. I wouldn't call the X1 mediocre by any stretch, the details are only lost by virtue of its thicker bass. That's a consequence of bass frequencies being present in the air in a way that they aren't with the K712 and HD650. 
 
Try this sometime: if you have a really good home speaker setup (or car speaker setup, whatever), listen to all the details in your music, then bump the subwoofer. Notice how many subtle details disappeared? Same deal. Shocker of shockers that the bassiest headphone of the three is the one you claimed had mediocre detail resolution.
 
If by "tonal balance" you're referring to frequency response... I'm not sure I'd call them similar. The HD650 and K712 share similarities, but the Senns are more mid-focused. Actually that's kinda how the three seem to roll. The X1s are thick, the HD650s mids are strong, the K712 is a bit sharper with a faint scoop. 
 
Also, careful with the MP3 chat, not sure you want to open up the lossless snake oil can of worms. I mean unless you feel like getting into the complete inability for anyone to have ever demonstrated the capability to hear lossless vs 320 in anything resembling a controlled environment and that vast swaths of people even accidentally pick 192 or 128(!) on occasion.
 
EDIT: Sorry if any of that came across as snippy or whatever, just got kinda set off by the somewhat "holier than thou" subtext of the post. 

 

[Shaffer]

Well that WAS a definition, and a fairly helpful one! XD By what you're saying, "resolution" and "clarity" aren't any different then. [...]

It's one of the aspects of resolution, as I wrote in my previous post.

Try this sometime: if you have a really good home speaker setup (or car speaker setup, whatever), listen to all the details in your music, then bump the subwoofer. Notice how many subtle details disappeared? Same deal. Shocker of shockers that the bassiest headphone of the three is the one you claimed had mediocre detail resolution.

I have a dedicated room with a true full-range, high resolution system (-6dB @ 18Hz) and have done what you said more than once. It doesn't change the resolution of the recording; just adds more bass where it isn't necessarily needed. I wish you could hear it sometime.

If by "tonal balance" you're referring to frequency response... I'm not sure I'd call them similar. The HD650 and K712 share similarities, but the Senns are more mid-focused. Actually that's kinda how the three seem to roll. The X1s are thick, the HD650s mids are strong, the K712 is a bit sharper with a faint scoop.

I was referring to the overall tonal balance, driven by your own words grouping the three into the same category.

Also, careful with the MP3 chat, not sure you want to open up the lossless snake oil can of worms. I mean unless you feel like getting into the complete inability for anyone to have ever demonstrated the capability to hear lossless vs 320 in anything resembling a controlled environment and that vast swaths of people even accidentally pick 192 or 128(!) on occasion.

I have no doubt that you, personally, cannot differentiate between an MP3 and the real thing, and that's where it ends.

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I understand more as a result.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

I have no doubt that you, personally, cannot differentiate between an MP3 and the real thing, and that's where it ends.

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I understand more as a result.

 
Don't worry, the hilariously dripping arrogance on this post helped me understand much more as well. 
 

 
 
On topic, dayum some of the best post-rock albums shine through these. Just SHINE. Right now it's Caspian's "Dust and Disquiet" and I am put in such a good mood. 

 

[iancraig10]

Interesting what you said about 'detail' Someguy. I feel much the same myself. It's often those treble laden headphones that are described as detailed.

Having said that, I really don't sit listening to the detail coming from my headphone. I'm too involved with the music.

The K712 doesn't sound typical of AKGs to me. It has proper depth in the bass and isn't as squeaky as a K701. I really like them a lot.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

Interesting what you said about 'detail' Someguy. I feel much the same myself. It's often those treble laden headphones that are described as detailed.

Having said that, I really don't sit listening to the detail coming from my headphone. I'm too involved with the music.

The K712 doesn't sound typical of AKGs to me. It has proper depth in the bass and isn't as squeaky as a K701. I really like them a lot.

 
Well that's how it goes. It's not a coincidence at ALL that the headphones everyone falls all over themselves to describe as "detailed" are also headphones with huge treble, and the headphones people scoff at for being "muddy" are the bassy headphones. You could have two headphones that are exactly the same in every single sense except one is more bass-tilted and the other treble-tilted, guaranteed on here the former would be called "flabby" and the latter "resolving". 
 
I'll say that I went for the K712s because I know they have a bigger soundstage and do present a slightly "edgier" sound, and that's what I wanted. I love the X1s, I loved the HD650s, I just wanted to try what the K712's seemed to over and so far I love it. We'll see what the Vali brings out of them.
 
Album now: Celeste - Misanthrope(s) 
 
If you like seriously nihilistic black/hardcore/post metal, this is gonna be a favorite of yours. It's also a good headphone to test presentation because depending on how good a can is, this album can either sound shrill, congested, or HUGE. On the K712? Huge.
 
EDIT: Dang the bass is impressive on these even without the better amp. As a test, threw on some trap rap (Gucci Mane, etc) just to see how it coped with the sub-40Hz tones and they POUND when the song calls for it. Like, no they're not basshead cans but for an open-back that can come across as bright with some songs I was surprised as hell.

 

[LugBug1]

Since buying my K712 (about 5 month ago) I've bought two other pairs of headphones (because that's what i do my second pair of K702 (and 6th K/xxx) - and the AD900x. 
 
The K712's sound like huge 650's compared to both these headphones... The K712's have a spike in the freq response and it looks bigger than what it actually sounds. If you had the same spike with a flat lower end then it would be painful. If you compare the AD900 and K712 the treble on the AKG is much spikier. The Audio Technica has a flat response through out but because of the open design and angle of the drivers it has one of the most revealing and uncompromising trebles in the business. I don't like any treble roll off, but these guys are painful hahaha - Really like them apart from that though
 
 
I bought another K702 because I wanted a change from the big warm K712's on occasion and the K701/2's have probs been my favorite headphone through out the years. Huge, dry, analytical - perfect for classical music. And the treble has improved with every incarnation. I'm gonna try and do a comparison and post it when I get time. The price that the K702 are going for now is outrageous! And they still sound like high end headphones compared to the latest "high-enders".   

 

[iancraig10]

I have the K712 and recently ordered the K702 for £120 which is very low. I was surprised that the K702 seems to be going out at bargain prices already.

I'm hoping that it's just a bit warmer than the K701 which I was never that keen on tbh. The ability to swap cables is attractive with the K702 as well.

Look forward to your comparison.

 

[LugBug1]

I have the K712 and recently ordered the K702 for £120 which is very low. I was surprised that the K702 seems to be going out at bargain prices already.

I'm hoping that it's just a bit warmer than the K701 which I was never that keen on tbh. The ability to swap cables is attractive with the K702 as well.

Look forward to your comparison.

It depends on how old your K701's were as both the K701/2 sound similar very similar. But if you compared an older (7bump for e.g) version of either, the imaging is much more focused now and the bass is well balanced. The earlier versions had an unnaturally stretched sound stage width and not much low end. Having said that I'm still fond of the earlier ones as they were quite unique and fun for some type of music. The AKG's respond well to EQ'ing as well so adding a little bottom end didn't seem to hurt the overall FR too much..
 
 
(I just got some B grade K702's - tatty box but headphones mint for £108! :O) It's madness a tell ye!    

 

[iancraig10]

Crikey, how low can you go? The K701 that I had was one of the first ones that came out. It seemed very toppy and the treble quality seem false sounding me. The width of the stereo image though was amazing.

So I'm hoping that the K702 is an improved version with perhaps a little more bass and unless strident treble. I like the K712 a lot and I'm hoping that the K702 is just slightly similar to that.

I just couldn't resist at that price and I must admit that I am curious as to whether there have been any minor tweaks since the first ones. I noticed recently when buying some K550s for my students that they sounded slightly more mellow than mine. I thought perhaps QC was the reason. Bought another one for myself and that was also relatively mellow sounding so my feeling is that they may have been slightly changed over the last couple of years. I'm hoping that something similar has happened with the K701/K702.

I now also have a K553 on the way !!

 

[LugBug1]

Crikey, how low can you go? The K701 that I had was one of the first ones that came out. It seemed very toppy and the treble quality seem false sounding me. The width of the stereo image though was amazing.

So I'm hoping that the K702 is an improved version with perhaps a little more bass and unless strident treble. I like the K712 a lot and I'm hoping that the K702 is just slightly similar to that.

I just couldn't resist at that price and I must admit that I am curious as to whether there have been any minor tweaks since the first ones. I noticed recently when buying some K550s for my students that they sounded slightly more mellow than mine. I thought perhaps QC was the reason. Bought another one for myself and that was also relatively mellow sounding so my feeling is that they may have been slightly changed over the last couple of years. I'm hoping that something similar has happened with the K701/K702.

I now also have a K553 on the way !!

I think you will be happy with the sound. I am They are also a good compliment to the K712, a nice change without too much of a contrast in sound sig. A little airier and drier and with this I prefer the 702's for large orchestral stuff.
 
The treble is much better now over the earlier sets. The plasticky tone in the upper mids has gone. They still have plenty of AKG bite, but the tonality is now much more realistic. 

 

[raybone0566]

I think you will be happy with the sound. I am They are also a good compliment to the K712, a nice change without too much of a contrast in sound sig. A little airier and drier and with this I prefer the 702's for large orchestral stuff.

The treble is much better now over the earlier sets. The plasticky tone in the upper mids has gone. They still have plenty of AKG bite, but the tonality is now much more realistic. 

They are also exceptional when paired with a tube amp. Wide & spacious soundstage, and they really scale. I can't believe I pondered selling these a while back. Definitely keepers

 

[SomeGuyDude]

So I got the Vali.
 
Off the top I think it sounds AMAZING so far, but I'm confused about volume settings. Right now things go like this:
 
Windows PC -> USB to Focusrite interface -> RCA to the Vali
 
So I was talking with a musician buddy of mine who said to max out the Windows volume and the interface, put the amp at 0 and adjust upward from there. I've seen others say "never put anything at 100% ever" but that leaves me with this awkward three-way confusion of where to set what and it doesn't make sense. I'll say that if I try to "moderate" the knobs, it doesn't sound any cleaner with the two knobs at around 50-70% but I have no idea.
 
Help?

 

[LugBug1]

  So I got the Vali.
 
Off the top I think it sounds AMAZING so far, but I'm confused about volume settings. Right now things go like this:
 
Windows PC -> USB to Focusrite interface -> RCA to the Vali
 
So I was talking with a musician buddy of mine who said to max out the Windows volume and the interface, put the amp at 0 and adjust upward from there. I've seen others say "never put anything at 100% ever" but that leaves me with this awkward three-way confusion of where to set what and it doesn't make sense. I'll say that if I try to "moderate" the knobs, it doesn't sound any cleaner with the two knobs at around 50-70% but I have no idea.
 
Help?

Max out windows all the way Reason being that you'll keep all the digital data. Once it's analogue it doesn't matter. I have no idea what the Focusrite interface is (no offence!) but if it is converting the signal then you want to give it the most possible. 

 

[SomeGuyDude]

  Max out windows all the way Reason being that you'll keep all the digital data. Once it's analogue it doesn't matter. I have no idea what the Focusrite interface is (no offence!) but if it is converting the signal then you want to give it the most possible. 

 
That works! Thank you! 

 
Focusrite makes mic/instrument interfaces, I wouldn't figure TOO many people here are using them because there's no reason to have one if you're not recording. Not an optimal DAC but it's surprisingly solid. 
 
I notice the Vali essentially takes the "edge" off of the K712s, smoothing the highs out a tad. I can't say thus far I've noticed anything else of significance, but I'll say that having gently sanded off treble makes it easier to bump the volume a bit, which gives the impression of more bass, and basically converted these things into my favorite headphones. Now they're like a "best of" with elements from the HD650, HD600, and Philips X1 all rolled into one awesome package. I thought the HD650s needed more soundstage, the 600s were too sharp, the X1s  were too thick.
 
AKG's really done something awesome here. I'm sticking to my guns that the HD650 is the all around "best" headphone just because it can do almost everything in a way that nearly everyone would like, but the best for versatility doesn't mean best for individuals, and I'm in love with the K712s now.

 

[NeObliviscaris]

My K712s got delivered this morning, will put them to burn in for a few hours before I give them a go!