[Shaffer]

600s being analytical and neutral and the 600s being warm and bassy considering their freq responses are nearly identical...

Let's assume the graphs are accurate for the sake of discussion. The HD650 has more than an octave and a half of bass extension at greater amplitude than the HD600, and the HD600 sees a ~5dB comparative rise just above the presence region next to the HD650. That's hardly "nearly identical."

Meanwhile there is a BIG difference between the K702 and the K712

Seeing how the K712's memory foam pads stand a much greater chance of establishing a firm seal on a dummy head than the K702's relatively stiff angled pads, the scale of the difference can be explained by that factor, alone.

All this being said, it is extremely difficult to measure headphones accurately. Relying greatly on such measurements borders on the ridiculous.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

Let's assume the graphs are accurate for the sake of discussion. The HD650 has more than an octave and a half of bass extension at greater amplitude than the HD600, and the HD600 sees a ~5dB comparative rise just above the presence region next to the HD650. That's hardly "nearly identical."
Seeing how the K712's memory foam pads stand a much greater chance of establishing a firm seal on a dummy head than the K702's relatively stiff angled pads, the scale of the difference can be explained by that factor, alone.

All this being said, it is extremely difficult to measure headphones accurately. Relying greatly on such measurements borders on the ridiculous.

 
Haha, all right man.
 
I love this site sometimes. Only place I've seen where people will argue why two close graphs are actually way more different and that two wildly different graphs aren't really different, then say they might not be accurate anyway and it's all dumb. Hey, everyone sees what they want to see, right? 

 
Anyway, should have mine by the end of the week all goes well. Excited for them. 

 

[kman1211]

   
Maybe so. I just know I only heard a minute difference between the 600s and 650s. Refinement and "how sound is portrayed" is really vague, can't say I even can figure out what that means in any kind of absolute sense, haha. I mean, it always struck me as funny that people rave about the 600s being analytical and neutral and the 600s being warm and bassy considering their freq responses are nearly identical...
 

 
Meanwhile there is a BIG difference between the K702 and the K712
 

That's actually a big reason I went for the K712, that graph looks like something that'll hit my ears right. Hopefully they'll be in this week, the guy I'm doing the swap with is hitting the post office tomorrow (as am I). 

Both the HD 600 and HD 650 are what I consider warm and and somewhat mid-bassy, I would never call the HD 600 analytical, the K712 is analytical not the HD 600. I even consider the HD 650 more analytical than the HD 600 as I found it resolved more detail and had a more open sound. It's just to me the HD 650 is more detailed, faster, more spacious, and smoother sounding than the HD 600 which I found rather upfront sounding(to the point it hurts the soundstage and imaging) with a slight abrasiveness in the 3-4khz region(depends on the system and recording) likely partly due to it's boost in the presence region compared to the HD 650. 
 
I know there is a big difference between the two if you are comparing them with different pads, but when they use the same pads they become a lot closer but still sound different. Similar to what happens if you swap HD 600 and HD 650 drivers.

 

[Shaffer]

Haha, all right man.

I love this site sometimes. Only place I've seen where people will argue why two close graphs are actually way more different and that two wildly different graphs aren't really different, then say they might not be accurate anyway and it's all dumb. Hey, everyone sees what they want to see, right? 

Anyway, should have mine by the end of the week all goes well. Excited for them. 

It may be more beneficial to try and understand what was said, then blindly dismissing the comments.

 

[iancraig10]

Well you're in for a treat. They're great headphones and in some ways I slightly prefer them to the HD 650. It has a bit more sparkle and sounds very open comparatively.

Pretty easy to drive and don't really need as much amplification is people would have you believe.

There is a bass that goes deeper and more sparkle in the treble.

I have a few cables for it now since you can use the Pioneer ones. That means that I can use a shorter one with the mobile amp or even straight out of a Fiio DAP. Then for indoors I can just change it to the longer one.

Before I heard it I was concerned that it might sound like the K701 but it really doesn't.

 

[raybone0566]

Haha, all right man.

I love this site sometimes. Only place I've seen where people will argue why two close graphs are actually way more different and that two wildly different graphs aren't really different, then say they might not be accurate anyway and it's all dumb. Hey, everyone sees what they want to see, right? 

Anyway, should have mine by the end of the week all goes well. Excited for them. 

You are in for a treat. These are fantastic phones. If you get a chance try them with a tube amp. Wide & spacious soundstage with great detail.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

^^ definitely, you two. What really tipped the scale for me was MadLust's thread where he said he preferred the K712 to the X1. I don't know ML on any real level, but if someone started off liking the X1 best I know their ears are close to mine and that means the K712 must be special. 

 

[NeObliviscaris]

So after reading this thread and the Heavy Metal headphones thread I bit the bullet and ordered a pair of K712 (good price at least).
 
Any one know whether I need to do any burn-in for this - if so how many hours?

 

[Rico613]

  So after reading this thread and the Heavy Metal headphones thread I bit the bullet and ordered a pair of K712 (good price at least).
 
Any one know whether I need to do any burn-in for this - if so how many hours?

I didn't pay close attention, but mine went from sounding like crap to sounding OK in 5-10 hours.  I usually give headphones 50 hrs or so.  

 

[NeObliviscaris]

 
I didn't pay close attention, but mine went from sounding like crap to sounding OK in 5-10 hours.  I usually give headphones 50 hrs or so.  

Cheers - I can't wait - I'll be running it with my MacBook Pro via a HeadAmp Pico DAC/Amp

 

[SomeGuyDude]

Well!
 
Mine came in used today (so all nice and "burnt in" hah). Keep in mind I'm not using them with a fancy anything, they're coming out of a Focusrite audio interface because that's what I use for my recording (I'll probably add an amp soon though). First off, I know some people love it, but man I don't like the saddle-style headband thing. I like headphones I can adjust that won't move around.
 
That said. The sound is just MASSIVE. They really do have some bizarre three-dimensional effect where instruments and vocals don't sound "quieter" compared to one another but really like they're physically PLACED further back or forward.
 
Now, it's gonna take some getting used to the frequency response because I'm coming from pretty bassy headphones, but really what I'm trading is the X1 occasionally having a "bloofy" moment where the midbass sounds bizarrely inflated for moments where a treble note squeaks in hotter than I'd prefer. Means I can't crank the volume like I used to. Obviously compared to the X1's they'll sound a little "thin" but I feel like I'm definitely gaining clarity and space.
 
Overall, just using some metal/rock of the post variety to test things out... I'm very pleased. Without being able to A/B them with my old 650s I'd say I'm losing smoothness, they're definitely sharp at times, but they're a lot bigger, I feel like the bass is more impactful despite being balanced out by the treble peaks, it's just a marvelous headphone. I fear for my ears because I keep wanting to turn them up louder than I should. XD
 
BUT, I understand why people have such a hard time with the HD650/X1/K712 trilateral. I don't think I could easily recommend any of these over the other. Seems like each one does something the others don't. It's way too dang early to decide, but I feel like the K712s are my "all arounder" headphone now. 
 
EDIT: I'm in love. Definitely getting either a Vali or a Little Dot MK1 to pair up. Will be ordering this afternoon. 
 
SECOND EDIT: Scratch that I got a Vali incoming it'll be here tomorrow. 

 

[Shaffer]

.

[...]

BUT, I understand why people have such a hard time with the HD650/X1/K712 trilateral. I don't think I could easily recommend any of these over the other. Seems like each one does something the others don't. It's way too dang early to decide, but I feel like the K712s are my "all arounder" headphone now. 

EDIT: I'm in love. Definitely getting either a Vali or a Little Dot MK1 to pair up. Will be ordering this afternoon. 

By the content of the post and the example given, it sounds like you're after a given tonal balance. The concept of resolution doesn't seem to figure into this. Am I wrong?

 

[SomeGuyDude]

By the content of the post and the example given, it sounds like you're after a given tonal balance. The concept of resolution doesn't seem to figure into this. Am I wrong?

 
Resolution is one of those words where I don't actually know what people mean by it. I keep hearing things like "these headphones resolve so well!" but they might as well be saying the headphones shmingle so well because I've never had a definition. 
 
I'm sure if I knew what it referred to then yes, that would be a factor. xD It's just not a PRIMARY factor. I really feel like El Numero Uno is the frequency response and then we move from there.

 

[kman1211]

  Well!
 
Mine came in used today (so all nice and "burnt in" hah). Keep in mind I'm not using them with a fancy anything, they're coming out of a Focusrite audio interface because that's what I use for my recording (I'll probably add an amp soon though). First off, I know some people love it, but man I don't like the saddle-style headband thing. I like headphones I can adjust that won't move around.
 
That said. The sound is just MASSIVE. They really do have some bizarre three-dimensional effect where instruments and vocals don't sound "quieter" compared to one another but really like they're physically PLACED further back or forward.
 
Now, it's gonna take some getting used to the frequency response because I'm coming from pretty bassy headphones, but really what I'm trading is the X1 occasionally having a "bloofy" moment where the midbass sounds bizarrely inflated for moments where a treble note squeaks in hotter than I'd prefer. Means I can't crank the volume like I used to. Obviously compared to the X1's they'll sound a little "thin" but I feel like I'm definitely gaining clarity and space.
 
Overall, just using some metal/rock of the post variety to test things out... I'm very pleased. Without being able to A/B them with my old 650s I'd say I'm losing smoothness, they're definitely sharp at times, but they're a lot bigger, I feel like the bass is more impactful despite being balanced out by the treble peaks, it's just a marvelous headphone. I fear for my ears because I keep wanting to turn them up louder than I should. XD
 
BUT, I understand why people have such a hard time with the HD650/X1/K712 trilateral. I don't think I could easily recommend any of these over the other. Seems like each one does something the others don't. It's way too dang early to decide, but I feel like the K712s are my "all arounder" headphone now. 
 
EDIT: I'm in love. Definitely getting either a Vali or a Little Dot MK1 to pair up. Will be ordering this afternoon. 
 
SECOND EDIT: Scratch that I got a Vali incoming it'll be here tomorrow. 

I'm glad you are enjoying the K712, they do sound massive, their soundstage is truly huge, very different presentation than all my other headphones. The sharpness in the treble is something you get used to in my experience, is a bit daunting at first especially if coming from something darker such as the HD 650, DT 150, etc. But once you adjust to the sound I found it doesn't even bother me. I know the feeling of wanting to crank the volume up on them. I have found them to be all-rounders, I haven't come across a genre or song they do bad at really, similar to how the HD 600 is but honestly I found the K712s better as the huge sound and tighter bass makes it shine on more music than the HD 600 but the HD 600 did have a bit of an edge in terms of tonality. The K712 was the biggest reason I sold the HD 600. The K712 is my favorite headphone I own and the one I've owned the longest, I am curious how it's going to compare to the darker and warmer Nighthawk I have coming in tomorrow. That's going to be an interesting comparison when I get to that. 

 

[Shaffer]

Resolution is one of those words where I don't actually know what people mean by it. I keep hearing things like "these headphones resolve so well!" but they might as well be saying the headphones shmingle so well because I've never had a definition. 

I'm not sure one needs a definition, when some cans are able to project more recorded information to the listener than others; it's blatantly audible. As in the case of the X1 - fairly mediocre resolution - and the other two HPs you mentioned that excel in that regard. Their tonal balance is relatively similar, but the amount of detail, texture, space, focus, articulation, the layering of the tracks, and clarity differs greatly.

I'm sure if I knew what it referred to then yes, that would be a factor. xD It's just not a PRIMARY factor. I really feel like El Numero Uno is the frequency response and then we move from there.

We're back to tonal balance. Are you still playing mostly MP3s?

Don't get me wrong. What you like is what you like. Your music, your money, your choice. I was just curious as to the determinants of preference.