[SomeGuyDude]

 
Don't think, "snake oil", applies since it doesn't cost anything to burn-in.  (Well unless you consider the cost of electricity and perhaps the modest cost of a burn-in disc like IsoTek.)   Someone would have to do a before and after test to see if there is a measurable difference in frequency response, and that may not be the best test for SQ anyway - I don't know.

 
Okay, granted, not quite the right term. 

 
But plenty of folks out there have sat with NIB sets and years-old ones and found no discernible difference, not to mention tons of companies just for the hell of it even do burn-in back in the factory (Audeze does, for example). Burn-in was something for old old loudspeakers where the mechanical parts needed time to loosen up. The teeny drivers and motors in headphones aren't subject to anything of the sort any more than your computer monitor would start showing colors differently after 200 hours or whatever. 
 
Point is I'm just wondering how those frequency graphs are generated, because I notice they don't all look the same. But either way I'm roughly 100% on trading my HD650s for the K712s so I suppose I'll find out for myself!

 

[raybone0566]

I've spent a few hrs. With my 712's paired with a tube amp. Absolutely fantastic. Very airy, detail was fantastic. These are some great phones

 

[Rico613]

I'm roughly 100% on trading my HD650s for the K712s so I suppose I'll find out for myself!

 
That's the spirit!  

   

 

[SomeGuyDude]

   
That's the spirit!  

   

 
LOL yeah I don't have "upgradeitis" any more, but I do have a wanderlust. I like to try stuff out in the $300-500 range. Seems like the K712 will be my best bet for gaming/recording/etc. My big thing I wanted to upgrade from my HD650 was some extra space in the soundstage, better bass extension, and more shimmery highs. Not huge upgrades, nothing major, and I know that I'll lose a lot of the benefits the HD650s have in terms of being able to melt into almost any genre and being more forgiving all around, but hey. Worth a shot!

 

[kman1211]

   
LOL yeah I don't have "upgradeitis" any more, but I do have a wanderlust. I like to try stuff out in the $300-500 range. Seems like the K712 will be my best bet for gaming/recording/etc. My big thing I wanted to upgrade from my HD650 was some extra space in the soundstage, better bass extension, and more shimmery highs. Not huge upgrades, nothing major, and I know that I'll lose a lot of the benefits the HD650s have in terms of being able to melt into almost any genre and being more forgiving all around, but hey. Worth a shot!

That does describe the K712 compared to the HD 650 pretty well. The HD 650 is definitely more romantic sounding and there is definitely something addicting and alluring about it's sound, but honestly I find the K712 the better headphone overall. The imaging is much better and the bass has a lot more control to it. I would say the K712's imaging and bass is actually sort of planarish, just not quite as heavy in the bass as planars can be. I definitely find the K712 more system and recording sensitive than the HD 650. I honestly think the two headphones are good compliments to each other if you have both. I'm personally replacing my HD 650 with the Nighthawk though.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

  That does describe the K712 compared to the HD 650 pretty well. The HD 650 is definitely more romantic sounding and there is definitely something addicting and alluring about it's sound, but honestly I find the K712 the better headphone overall. The imaging is much better and the bass has a lot more control to it. I would say the K712's imaging and bass is actually sort of planarish, just not quite as heavy in the bass as planars can be. I definitely find the K712 more system and recording sensitive than the HD 650. I honestly think the two headphones are good compliments to each other if you have both. I'm personally replacing my HD 650 with the Nighthawk though.

 
Yeah it's funny. Here on head-fi people keep saying about how finicky the K712's are with sources, but then I hop onto other areas, reviews and whatnot, and people saying they sound awesome straight out of an iPod or laptop. I mean heck they're 62ohm and sensitivity's 105. Maybe it's like you said and it's not a matter of being hard to drive and more like they just react VERY readily to whatever gets thrown at them. I dunno! Guess I'll find out. XD

 

[kman1211]

   
Yeah it's funny. Here on head-fi people keep saying about how finicky the K712's are with sources, but then I hop onto other areas, reviews and whatnot, and people saying they sound awesome straight out of an iPod or laptop. I mean heck they're 62ohm and sensitivity's 105. Maybe it's like you said and it's not a matter of being hard to drive and more like they just react VERY readily to whatever gets thrown at them. I dunno! Guess I'll find out. XD

The K712 isn't a hard headphone to drive, but it's one of the more sensitive headphones I've across, but I know from experience AKGs are sensitive to the system and recording. I would say it's actually my most sensitive headphone and the only headphone I own where differences in cables are noticeable. I know cables are an controversial subject, it's just my personal experience here. The HD 600 and HD 650 pretty much sounded the same regardless of cable with maybe slight differences that could honestly be placebo. The K712 on the other hand changes more noticeably, one of my aftermarket cables pretty much eliminates the soundstage depth making the headphone sound extremely two-dimensional and the upper ranges to sound hazy ruining the timbre of the headphone and the other makes the treble zestier but the soundstage depth is fantastic. Can't explain why, it just happens. I hope you enjoy the headphone, it's a fickle beast but on the right gear is pretty much flagship level.

 

[Asr]

I'm personally replacing my HD 650 with the Nighthawk though.

 
I haven't read any of the impressions on the Nighthawk yet, but your comment there caught my attention. Are you saying that the Nighthawk is like an improved version of the HD650, or do you mean something else?

 

[kman1211]

   
I haven't read any of the impressions on the Nighthawk yet, but your comment there caught my attention. Are you saying that the Nighthawk is like an improved version of the HD650, or do you mean something else?

The Nighthawk is a controversial phone I noticed impression wise. I've had the chance to audition my friends Nighthawk numerous times at length and it truly stunned me, took me a little to adjust to it's sound, but confirmed the nagging suspicion I had that most headphones including flagships are kind of distorted and grainy sounding, especially in the treble. I have noticed this for a while about the HD 650 is that it's kind of distorted sounding, the HD 600 I found even more distorted sounding. The tuning of the Nighthawk is on what is often considered the dark and warm side like the HD 650 is, but I found the Nighthawk a lot better than the HD 650 but also very different.

 

[Anjolie]

I wasn't sure if I should post here or in the Sony PHA3 thread, but has anyone terminated their K712 from SE to balanced and if so, is it worth the trouble for the SQ?  Thank you in advanced

 

[SomeGuyDude]

  The K712 isn't a hard headphone to drive, but it's one of the more sensitive headphones I've across, but I know from experience AKGs are sensitive to the system and recording. I would say it's actually my most sensitive headphone and the only headphone I own where differences in cables are noticeable. I know cables are an controversial subject, it's just my personal experience here. The HD 600 and HD 650 pretty much sounded the same regardless of cable with maybe slight differences that could honestly be placebo. The K712 on the other hand changes more noticeably, one of my aftermarket cables pretty much eliminates the soundstage depth making the headphone sound extremely two-dimensional and the upper ranges to sound hazy ruining the timbre of the headphone and the other makes the treble zestier but the soundstage depth is fantastic. Can't explain why, it just happens. I hope you enjoy the headphone, it's a fickle beast but on the right gear is pretty much flagship level.

 
Hahaha that's worrisome! But no, you're right on the 600/650. They're not wildly different. The 600 is a leaner 650, the 650 is a warmer 600. Nearly the same headphone but with a tilt (and, confession, I ADORE them). I just hope I don't find such issues with cables, I don't need to start up with that war. XD

 

[kman1211]

   
Hahaha that's worrisome! But no, you're right on the 600/650. They're not wildly different. The 600 is a leaner 650, the 650 is a warmer 600. Nearly the same headphone but with a tilt (and, confession, I ADORE them). I just hope I don't find such issues with cables, I don't need to start up with that war. XD

I actually found the HD 600 and HD 650 fairly different, somewhat similar overall but the HD 650 did have the edge in terms of resolution, imaging, and refinement and it's soundstage is bigger. The differences were fairly large to my ears, I actually don't like the HD 600 much and it wasn't because of it's tuning(loved the tuning) but lack of refinement compared to the HD 650 and some other mid-tiers. I think I'm a bit more sensitive to slight changes than most, I've always felt everything makes a difference, it's just a matter how much of a difference is it to a person. There are times I don't feel things aren't a big difference and other times all the smaller differences can really get to me. 

 

[SomeGuyDude]

  I actually found the HD 600 and HD 650 fairly different, somewhat similar overall but the HD 650 did have the edge in terms of resolution, imaging, and refinement and it's soundstage is bigger. The differences were fairly large to my ears, I actually don't like the HD 600 much and it wasn't because of it's tuning(loved the tuning) but lack of refinement compared to the HD 650 and some other mid-tiers. I think I'm a bit more sensitive to slight changes than most, I've always felt everything makes a difference, it's just a matter how much of a difference is it to a person. There are times I don't feel things aren't a big difference and other times all the smaller differences can really get to me. 

 
Like you said. They're different, but it's slight changes and vague things like "refinement". They're not wildly different headphones, just different shades of the same headphone. 

 

[kman1211]

   
Like you said. They're different, but it's slight changes and vague things like "refinement". They're not wildly different headphones, just different shades of the same headphone. 

It's a bit like the K712 compared to other K7 family headphones. Family resemblance, but better in terms of refinement and different in how sound is portrayed. Like the HD 650 vs HD 600. I find the K712 to be different in how it portrays soundstage and imaging compared to say the K702 and Q701 even with the same pads. It's really the imaging and soundstage of the headphones is why I find them so different.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

  It's a bit like the K712 compared to other K7 family headphones. Family resemblance, but better in terms of refinement and different in how sound is portrayed. Like the HD 650 vs HD 600. I find the K712 to be different in how it portrays soundstage and imaging compared to say the K702 and Q701 even with the same pads. It's really the imaging and soundstage of the headphones is why I find them so different.

 
Maybe so. I just know I only heard a minute difference between the 600s and 650s. Refinement and "how sound is portrayed" is really vague, can't say I even can figure out what that means in any kind of absolute sense, haha. I mean, it always struck me as funny that people rave about the 600s being analytical and neutral and the 600s being warm and bassy considering their freq responses are nearly identical...
 

 
Meanwhile there is a BIG difference between the K702 and the K712
 

That's actually a big reason I went for the K712, that graph looks like something that'll hit my ears right. Hopefully they'll be in this week, the guy I'm doing the swap with is hitting the post office tomorrow (as am I).