[TheGiantHogweed]

i put the stock(original) pads back on almost right away. the k553 are way too bright (for me, for my taste or ear canal maybe , not anyone elses). . i just got a pair of akg M220 delivered today. from the last massdrop.
i like the M220/k240 a lot better, love them. . the instruments sound real in them ,. ive been around instruments my whole life,

Well they are semi open headphones so a comparison is a little unfair. The K550s and K553s are very similar and are same of the most open and spacious sounding closed back headphones you can get for the price. I am trying to work out how you have both stock and after market pads? Did where you bought them from sell them with both? I'm a bit mixed up as to how you have both pairs. Did you get them second hand? If so, you can't really believe this is how they will sound. It is also incredibly hard to find genuine pads for these headphones. A hifi retailer in the UK told me one place but this is only for the UK. But I managed to get a brand new genuine pair no different to what came with my K550s some time ago. This probably won't be useful to you but may be to others. http://www.carradiorepairs.co.uk/ It seems that they specialise in having spare parts and accessories for major audio brands, including AKG.

But it may still be the case that you are not keen on them. I don't really agree with what Dealux has said. These headphones do have a peak in the higher treble which can sound harsh to some. And while they do have very deep bass, they don't have a huge amount of impact. But the earpads make a massive difference to this. Even the way you position them on your head. The midrange also has a small issue. It lacks weight to it and sounds rather thin at times. But AKG have done a very good job at getting these to sound much more like an open backed headphone than closed. Most closed headphones have a lot more bass than these and often end up having less treble, sometimes resulting in a boomy and muddy sound. It is all about preference, but the K550s and K553s are really good for closed back headphones.

 

[bbtang]

Well they are semi open headphones so a comparison is a little unfair. The K550s and K553s are very similar and are same of the most open and spacious sounding closed back headphones you can get for the price. I am trying to work out how you have both stock and after market pads? Did where you bought them from sell them with both? I'm a bit mixed up as to how you have both pairs. Did you get them second hand? If so, you can't really believe this is how they will sound. It is also incredibly hard to find genuine pads for these headphones. A hifi retailer in the UK told me one place but this is only for the UK. But I managed to get a brand new genuine pair no different to what came with my K550s some time ago. This probably won't be useful to you but may be to others. http://www.carradiorepairs.co.uk/ It seems that they specialise in having spare parts and accessories for major audio brands, including AKG.

But it may still be the case that you are not keen on them. I don't really agree with what Dealux has said. These headphones do have a peak in the higher treble which can sound harsh to some. And while they do have very deep bass, they don't have a huge amount of impact. But the earpads make a massive difference to this. Even the way you position them on your head. The midrange also has a small issue. It lacks weight to it and sounds rather thin at times. But AKG have done a very good job at getting these to sound much more like an open backed headphone than closed. Most closed headphones have a lot more bass than these and often end up having less treble, sometimes resulting in a boomy and muddy sound. It is all about preference, but the K550s and K553s are really good for closed back headphones.

thanks for your much more detailed response.. yes the treble and mid comments you mentioned reflect what my ears are complaining about.. otherwise just my opinion but: my ears agree with everything you said (it doesnt matter what the graphs say, in the end it is the ears that tell you your own truth, altho at times the brain is the one that messes up the attention to what is really going on and the interpretation). closed vs. open... i got the k553 because people say it sounds very open, they are ok in that way. . and i wanted it for the gym so i got them in large part for that. it is noisy in the gym. ... i did get the 553 cans lightly used.. with two sets of pads, aftermarket pads installed and the original pads in the box. ..i have the original pads on the cans now, sound much better. plenty of bass for me, but not deep enough to give the upright bass and the grand piano a complex texture, 553 are more for electric bass, and even then, not for vintage type sounds that are woody. ok cans for modern music, but still not much texture on the cymbals and violins and basically the trebles. not sufficiently extended. im comparing to my k240.. so not comparing to an expensive headphone , in fact a cheap one. . .. my ears like the k240 bass extension much better anf it is not as boomy not prominent... i dont like ( i hate) boomy bass, it is just fake bass. sounds like fake bass, i listen mostly to jazz and classical, but also to rock and pop. . modern music's favorite bass guitar amplifier is the Ampeg SVT which has 8 10 inch old school drivers and a huge box(es).. high impedance pickups with narrow bandwidth.. definitely equipment to make fake bass to begin with.. this is why we have so much audio equipment that fakely enhances fake bass...LOL but . . ... i agree that the k553 do sound open for a closed back. i got them for using at the gym etc. but as you said the treble is harsh to my ears. my ears are used to alnico magnet compression horns. i wonder why headphone makers don''t use alnico magnets. it would make the highs more transparent and detailed.. well im sure they have a good reason.. the bass is bearable on the 553, but lame compared to the k240 in terms of extension and textured complex sound that sounds like a real instrument. a good question to ask yourself is does the piano sound like a 9 foot instrument.. does the upright bass sound like a 6 foot instrument?.. does the acoustic guitar sound like a guitar or ukulele?..is it mahogany or rosewood?.. can you tell the difference in the recording whether it is a Martin D-18, a 000-18 or a 00-18,?, all of which have different sized bodies but are different in size... this is what you can tell from good sound , . but i realize through this that the engineers in the studios are listening through near field speakers, which doesn't sound at all like musicians playing on a stage or studio,,,im talking about being on stage listening, not in the audience, which hears the PA system... , i hate the sound of near field speakers, which is what headphones are always compared to.. don't we want them to sound like live on stage performance rather than tiny speakers in a listening room in a studio?. so the studio guys are recording things according to those tiny speakers to mix them for tiny speakers that the public will be listening to..that are far below the volume levels of the music in the studio, volume totally affects how the ear hears spectrum.. .. the flat response is not how the ear hears when you are on the stage with the musicians. and i havent heard diffused field headphones, but I dont think that is the truth either.. i think there is too much thinking and too many engineers trying to resolve how to record and play music and even evaluate music and playback equipment, and too much talk about this by using science and technology without sufficiently relating the qualitative aspects ,,, (SUFFICIENTLY) and not enough art and doing things by the ears of musicians, at the same time people need to relate the qualitative aspects with the quantitative ones so that people who read can see what tHE baselines being compared to are and see reason behind preference as well as preference behind reasoning. . but yes. the k553 sound like near field speakers.. lack of bass extension.. (also near field speakers lack dynamic range, and actually most of dynamic range is a function of bass extension and tonal balance), near fields are too bright,.. every thing sounds tiny and tinny.. but they are ok, compared to other audio equipment.. this is all just my opinion and obviously it is not shared by the rest of the music production and music reproduction world, but when i am around musicians they usually agree with me. from what i have read about the 553 cans it sounds like they are closer to what i like than other closed backs and even some other open backs.. i.e. beyer dt770 and dt990... one reading this might say well what i am looking for in terms of extension and detail is an expensive headphone.. but i love the K240/m2220 ( i have an austrian K240 and a new chinese M220, and they sound the same except the worn pads put the K240 closer to the ear so they actually sound better with the worn compressed pads). didnt even have to break in the M220. ... well im curious about the Hd 600 but i considering my next pair of cans to try might
be a Monolith Planar 565. so is the 565 treble going to bother me? i suspect if it is detailed because of the extension maybe it wont. im liking the k553 ok with EQ, but i like the K240 better, much better even with no EQ.

 

[491838]

I don't find them bright at all. In fact they sound a bit IEM like in that the treble isn't super crisp but it still maintains a neutral(ish) level.

Give me an example of a song that sounds bright on your system. Also, what do you use to drive them?

I don't really agree with what Dealux has said. These headphones do have a peak in the higher treble which can sound harsh to some. And while they do have very deep bass, they don't have a huge amount of impact. But the earpads make a massive difference to this. Even the way you position them on your head. The midrange also has a small issue. It lacks weight to it and sounds rather thin at times. But AKG have done a very good job at getting these to sound much more like an open backed headphone than closed. Most closed headphones have a lot more bass than these and often end up having less treble, sometimes resulting in a boomy and muddy sound. It is all about preference, but the K550s and K553s are really good for closed back headphones.

I noticed that but it's not bright to me. I think in one of my test songs ("Enigma" by Keeno) the treble seemed to be emphasized in a different area than on my K712, which kinda weirded me out since I assumed the K712 was brighter but they emphasize different frequencies. I think the K550/553 boost things above 9-10K, which is not harsh sounding to most people.

As for bass impact, I kinda agree, but it isn't very sloppy. It does seem a bit warm in the sub bass region or even slightly bloated but they still have enough impact for me to be usable for mixing. Bass extends pretty well (I can hear stuff below 30 Hz but not at usable levels).

Mids are a bit tiny, yeah, which is why I prefer the K712 (also they lack about 10-20% of detail compared to the K712) but you kinda forget about it until you use an open back again.

 

[bbtang]

thanks for your response.
have you heard the K240?
my goal is for a mobile audio solution, so i am try to stick with headphones that work on phones etc.
this is why i think my next can will be the monoprice monolith 560,, because it is a lowZ can 32 ohm can ( havent found sensitivity info) .. also i am interested in the planar technology. i would consider the HD600 but it is a lot to drive at 600 ohm.
i would buy the K240DF or the k240 sextet at this point and use them on my 60's McIntosh speaker amps which are good for headphones.. also i can build tube headphone amps if i want to. ive built a lot of amps.
but i dont think at this point i want to put so much energy into things and the best mobile solution is what would be nice. i could be happy with the K240 forever at this point . other things to do in life besides audio.

basically all my observations about the K553 are in comparison to my old austrian K240 and my chinese new M220.. i have both. actually the both K240 and M220 sound almost the same .
so im not making an absolute statement, but a relative one K553 to K240 ..which is more specific. Im also making an opinion based on preference. doesnt necessarily apply to other people.
Im jjust trying to say I llike the K240 like night and day over the K553 thats all.

im just using my phone and my laptop and my desktop, with some eq on the phone. i have tube amps for speakers MacIntosh 1500 and MA 230 that are quite good for headphones, but im not using them right now. i know what they sound like with the K240s and Beyers and Sennheisers that I have had over time. .. they warm up the sound,, but the K553 honestly doesnt have the bandwidth to my ears nor the energy between 100 and about 600 hz. to really sound natural in the bass and treble nor fat in the mids.
I like fat mids. the K240 has fat mids.. to me, fat sounds natural and appealing at the same time. listen to a cello on most headphones or speakers, it doesnt sound big.. a real cello sounds huge. i just want music to sound real.

but here I am making a comparative judgement , not an absolute one. everything is being driven by the same sources and in fact the K553 has a lower impedance and a higher sensitivity. and actually in the vocal range it is not louder than the K240. very surprisingly so since the K553 has lower impedance and higher sensitivity both. .. in reality usually most wattage is carried in the lower register so if headphones are TRULY more sensitive (not by the number) they will seem louder in the lower register.. well the K553 dont.. .impedance is usually DC i believe, . but i believe most headphones sensitivity are measure at 1K hz, i think for their sensitivity rating and i would say that these are pretty close in the 1K range, but 1K is really near the top end of the mid frequency region when you consider fundamental frequencies of notes. .. harmonic frequency wise it is not, but you have to include the fundamentals in the discussion because if you dont have the fundamental frequency , you dont really have the note or the sound.. fundamental frequency defined as 440 for middle C for example .. .. when you play middle C on the piano, you get 440. plus higher harmonics.. .
so what im saying is that the K240 sounds louder below 1K and the k553 sounds louder above 1K. but most of the mids are below 1K in terms of fundamentals. .. 1K is over an octave above middle C on the piano and if you play that on the piano its is to me a pretty high note... we are talking about the alto range.. is music really centered in the alto range?.. well i guess the music reproduction community seems to think so.... . to me, all almost all audio stuff sounds like it is based around the 1K ''idea'', but the music is in the mids and 1K is not really the center of the mids. i would say 440 is the center of the mids as it is on the piano. and to make the music you have to be able to reproduce the lowest note of the music. the harmonics are really optional compared the the fundamental.. ..

my opinion, but on my sources,
all the 70's rock stuff, the 90's and 2000's pop vocal stuff sounds way bright to me on the K553 compared to the K240.
have you heard the K240? i love jazz and it sounds ok on the k553, but not near as good on the k240.. the K240 has been in more recording studios than almost any other can since the 70's.
also what i am comparing this in a general sense is my background in music and music and music gear .
i have spent over 40 years comparing various vintage guitars , vintage amps, vintage speakers, vintage tubes (telefunkens vs. RCAs, octals vs 9 pins, triodes vs. tetrodes), vintage cabinets for both guitar and bass. not to mention modifying capacitors and circuits in vintage amps (tweed fenders, earliest marshalls, etc. ) and building amplifiers from scratch. ie. resistors, capacitors , transformers, etc.
so im pretty used to listening and evaluating sound, especially on a qualitative basis. . also helping bands with their live mixes and mixes on recordings.
in terms of hifi .
my musical ear , and what i have had at home for the last few decades is giant horn systems.. Klipschorn and also a folded horn EV (1.5 meter wide ) woofer bins with Univ C15W woofers in the Ks, the EV has SRO 15 speakers, Altec Mantaray horns that are 29 inches on a side or JBL horns like the 2360, the largest recent JBL horn or the 2395 lens, which is a 36 inch (0.9 meter) wide horn and the altec 205 horn as well as others with large format Altec and Jbl Mid drivers , 2482 , which have 23 pound alnico magnets . the 2395/2382 mid horns and drivers weigh about 136 lb. for the pair .. also the tweeters are EV T350. ive had tons of vintage audio gear. .this provides a fat sound that is more like ''they are here'' rather than ''you are there''. one day it will be nice if i can get this sound on cans, but if I don't i will still be very satisfied (im already satisfied with the K240, but eventually i will sell the K553). life changes .

but i try to limit he point of my discussion to the comparison between the K240 and the K553 for a lot of good reasons.. and also everything is based on my observation and preference, nothing else.
basically the K240 sounds wider in terms of treble and bass extension, stronger in the low mids. much less bright in the high mids (1.5K or so) and in the trebles, except for the highest trebles..
im just saying that to me the K240, sounds beautiful and balanced and the K553 really sounds harsh.. the K240 doesnt sound as good as my speaker systems but its AOK with me.
granted, on some recordings that i listen to, the K553 sounds pretty good , generally they are mellower recordings. there is not a lot of crowded high end content in it.
but compared to the k240 I always far prefer the K240 in these recordings.. there is far more bass and treble extension to my ears, the bass and treble are much more textured and less clunky, you can tell a lot more about the instruments being played. and the mids are much warmer and realistic .. this goes for saxes, violas, cellos, voices, acoustic guitars, electric guitars, etc..

 

[bbtang]

seems like these graphs demonstrate my preference. maybe for some reason i hear more like 'measured' than ''apparent"" because that seems to be what i described in my last post as to what i hear about recorded music...

http://en.goldenears.net/13746 k550
http://en.goldenears.net/17565 k240

 

[491838]

You can't compare an open back to a closed back so well. Also, the K240 definitely doesn't have more bass than the K550/553. In fact when I first put my K550 on (expecting the bass to lack like some people say) I was surprised by the amount of it to the point where I wondered if they had too much bass (and they probably do have a bit too much). The bassiest open can from AKG with quality bass would have to be the K712 (which I also own) and the K812 (which is reportedly worse than the K712 for tonal balance).

If you want a pair comparable to high end speakers (though I have my doubts that your vintage speakers would be considered high end by today's standards) you'd probably have to spend over $1K on one.

 

[GirgleMirt]

Yeah audio is pretty damn confusing, even when it just comes down to bass. The 240's measurement you linked has more mid bass, but it goes down way more than the 550 <80hz. The 550 is 'special' because its bass (<80hz) doesn't significantly drop like most open headphones. Compare say to the Q701, the 550's low bass is significantly better; better as in theoretically closer to a perfectly flat response down to 20hz, whereas the q701 drops significantly, the 550 even bumps the 20-60hz above the rest of the frequencies, making it somewhat of a bass monster.

Not bass monster in the way the 240 boost the mid bass, but in the way that its fn serious about reproducing low bass. But it does so, imho, in a way that is almost remarkably balanced; the 550s just have that sweet AKG 'sounds neutral' sound.

https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGQuincyJonesQ701.pdf
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGK550.pdf
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGK240Sextett.pdf

And even the highs, the above indicate that the 550, shouldn't really be brighter than the 240. And to my ears, the 550s are definitely way less bright than Grados, Beyers 990, etc.; I definitely would not characterize their sound as bright. They're just a very well balanced headphone IMHO, and quickly looking up reviews to see if I'm crazy, most seem to agree;

https://www.headfonia.com/akgs-new-reference-the-k550/

The sound is very well balanced for music listening yet remaining quite linear and without too much coloration.[...] One of the first impressions I have with the K550 is that it sounds extremely clean, almost electrostats-like (sans the transients). It’s definitely cleaner than the K701’s, and without the so called “plastic” timbre of the K701. I also feel the K550’s tonal balance to be better, having a more proper low end weight compared to the K701. The overall sound is quite laid back and I don’t think it plays well with fast-paced music, but the pace is not nearly as slow as the HD650.

It’s not a perfect headphone and I do think that the midrange on the K550, though quite clear and smooth, needs some additional body. I understand that adding some body to the midrange would compromise the otherwise excellent sense of clarity, and it may not go well with the overall voicing of the K550. Another thing that I would like to be added is a slightly heavier low end body. I don’t think the K550 lacks bass, but it would be nice to feel a stronger slam. I don’t really complain about the pace of the headphone. It’s not as relaxed as Senn’s HD650/800, or Shure’s SRH1840, but still moderately relaxed. It fits the pace of most of my music, but I won’t recommend it as a main headphone if you listen to extremely fast Rock & Metal stuff.

Despite these critiques, I do believe that it’s going to be very hard for most people to not to be satisfied with the new headphone from AKG.

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/wonderfully-competent-akg-k550-sealed-headphone-page-2

The AKG K550, on the other hand, is a very well balanced sounding headphone, and, to my ears, bests the above mentioned cans in terms of overall performance. They're nice and tight in the bass, where I find the SRH840 woolly, and the Denons a bit loose. The midrange clarity is very good and quite even for a sealed can, presenting the upper mid-range/low treble beautifully and giving voices their full throat. The best of the bunch here.

The only place they stumble is in the treble's upper registers where they're a bit "zazzy" and indistinct. While the high notes aren't biting, they're also not well enough enunciated to bring out the natural textures of cymbals and brushes on the drums. If you're a mixing or mastering engineer that can live without good isolation, the more refined treble of the Denon D2000 is the way to go, though they tend to be a tad bright up top. The more expensive Denons are, well, quite a bit more expensive, but somewhat better sounding. (The diminishing returns curve is hard at work here.)

Some will want a comparison with the AKG K701--a bass shy, but otherwise excellent headphone. I think the K550 is a remarkably different beast, bringing far more heft to the low notes, a similarly good mid, and not quite as competent treble, but overall a significantly more balanced and enjoyable listen for me.

Anyway, they're one of my older headphones, and like the Q701 I still using them very regularly and both are definitely goto headphones; my main complaints with 550s would be warmth; they get hot. And yeah sure they could be a tad more detailed/resolving, but overall, great overall/neutral sounding phones!

Overall, vs open Q701, imho the Q701 has more resolution & better imaging, but the 550's bass has more weight, like heavy drums and such will have more slam & be more visceral on the 550s; so it's trade-offs; some listening material benefit more from the better resolution, other benefit more from the visceral impact and better low bass reproduction. The Q701 treble is also better, I guess that might be a bit of a weakness of the 550s, the treble isn't bad, but it's just not great; it's ok, if anything, maybe I'd describe it as a bit 'weird' sounding, without being to explain why exactly...

But to go back to bass, you have to make the distinction between mid-bass bump & bass extension, lacking bass vs no mid-bass bump, <80hz vs no mid bass bump, etc.

An old classic for me is Kenji Kawai's live Ghost in the Shell, when the drums get going, it separates the boys from the men. It exposes bass capabilities and bass response; and playing them on say Q701 vs 550 makes a big difference... The Q701 isn't bad per se, it's just not the same thing as the 550 or other headphone with really good bass capabilities!

Spoiler: KJ

Too bad there's only 'low' res/quality versions on youtube, but anyway, gives an idea...

 

[bbtang]

You can't compare an open back to a closed back so well. Also, the K240 definitely doesn't have more bass than the K550/553. In fact when I first put my K550 on (expecting the bass to lack like some people say) I was surprised by the amount of it to the point where I wondered if they had too much bass (and they probably do have a bit too much). The bassiest open can from AKG with quality bass would have to be the K712 (which I also own) and the K812 (which is reportedly worse than the K712 for tonal balance).

If you want a pair comparable to high end speakers (though I have my doubts that your vintage speakers would be considered high end by today's standards) you'd probably have to spend over $1K on one.

my point is that you cant compare other people's listening experiences to your own.. ..what is considered good to one person may not be to another.,,, same with women's beauty.. and yes you can compare any two things to each other if the basis is your own two ears, nothing else really matters. . ..also, regarding open back to closed back.. if your car is parked in a quiet place.. do you like the car stereo with the windows closed or windows opened????.. most people would say that the sound loses bass with the windows ,,,open. to me , this is the obvious thing to say, but i definitely like th sound with the windows not completely closed... i listen to what my ears say.. i cant hear text about sound on the internet , nor graphs. ..there is such an abundance of audio gear in this part of the country , west coast usa, people who look can get a first hand experience at listening to and owning all kinds of things, sometimes very very cheap. and the results arent anything like what people say on the internet. .it is the same with the propaganda we have here in america. people dont even realize we are subject to more propaganda than anywhere in the world.

 

[bbtang]

Yeah audio is pretty damn confusing, even when it just comes down to bass. The 240's measurement you linked has more mid bass, but it goes down way more than the 550 <80hz. The 550 is 'special' because its bass (<80hz) doesn't significantly drop like most open headphones. Compare say to the Q701, the 550's low bass is significantly better; better as in theoretically closer to a perfectly flat response down to 20hz, whereas the q701 drops significantly, the 550 even bumps the 20-60hz above the rest of the frequencies, making it somewhat of a bass monster.

Not bass monster in the way the 240 boost the mid bass, but in the way that its fn serious about reproducing low bass. But it does so, imho, in a way that is almost remarkably balanced; the 550s just have that sweet AKG 'sounds neutral' sound.

https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGQuincyJonesQ701.pdf
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGK550.pdf
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGK240Sextett.pdf

And even the highs, the above indicate that the 550, shouldn't really be brighter than the 240. And to my ears, the 550s are definitely way less bright than Grados, Beyers 990, etc.; I definitely would not characterize their sound as bright. They're just a very well balanced headphone IMHO, and quickly looking up reviews to see if I'm crazy, most seem to agree;

https://www.headfonia.com/akgs-new-reference-the-k550/


https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/wonderfully-competent-akg-k550-sealed-headphone-page-2


Anyway, they're one of my older headphones, and like the Q701 I still using them very regularly and both are definitely goto headphones; my main complaints with 550s would be warmth; they get hot. And yeah sure they could be a tad more detailed/resolving, but overall, great overall/neutral sounding phones!

Overall, vs open Q701, imho the Q701 has more resolution & better imaging, but the 550's bass has more weight, like heavy drums and such will have more slam & be more visceral on the 550s; so it's trade-offs; some listening material benefit more from the better resolution, other benefit more from the visceral impact and better low bass reproduction. The Q701 treble is also better, I guess that might be a bit of a weakness of the 550s, the treble isn't bad, but it's just not great; it's ok, if anything, maybe I'd describe it as a bit 'weird' sounding, without being to explain why exactly...

But to go back to bass, you have to make the distinction between mid-bass bump & bass extension, lacking bass vs no mid-bass bump, <80hz vs no mid bass bump, etc.

An old classic for me is Kenji Kawai's live Ghost in the Shell, when the drums get going, it separates the boys from the men. It exposes bass capabilities and bass response; and playing them on say Q701 vs 550 makes a big difference... The Q701 isn't bad per se, it's just not the same thing as the 550 or other headphone with really good bass capabilities!

Spoiler: KJ

Too bad there's only 'low' res/quality versions on youtube, but anyway, gives an idea...

 

[bbtang]

thanks for your replies and the graphs.

 

[bbtang]

error post -is there a way to delete posts one has made in error?

 

[bbtang]

Yeah audio is pretty damn confusing, even when it just comes down to bass. The 240's measurement you linked has more mid bass, but it goes down way more than the 550 <80hz. The 550 is 'special' because its bass (<80hz) doesn't significantly drop like most open headphones. Compare say to the Q701, the 550's low bass is significantly better; better as in theoretically closer to a perfectly flat response down to 20hz, whereas the q701 drops significantly, the 550 even bumps the 20-60hz above the rest of the frequencies, making it somewhat of a bass monster.

Not bass monster in the way the 240 boost the mid bass, but in the way that its fn serious about reproducing low bass. But it does so, imho, in a way that is almost remarkably balanced; the 550s just have that sweet AKG 'sounds neutral' sound.

https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGQuincyJonesQ701.pdf
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGK550.pdf
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGK240Sextett.pdf

And even the highs, the above indicate that the 550, shouldn't really be brighter than the 240. And to my ears, the 550s are definitely way less bright than Grados, Beyers 990, etc.; I definitely would not characterize their sound as bright. They're just a very well balanced headphone IMHO, and quickly looking up reviews to see if I'm crazy, most seem to agree;

https://www.headfonia.com/akgs-new-reference-the-k550/


https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/wonderfully-competent-akg-k550-sealed-headphone-page-2


Anyway, they're one of my older headphones, and like the Q701 I still using them very regularly and both are definitely goto headphones; my main complaints with 550s would be warmth; they get hot. And yeah sure they could be a tad more detailed/resolving, but overall, great overall/neutral sounding phones!

Overall, vs open Q701, imho the Q701 has more resolution & better imaging, but the 550's bass has more weight, like heavy drums and such will have more slam & be more visceral on the 550s; so it's trade-offs; some listening material benefit more from the better resolution, other benefit more from the visceral impact and better low bass reproduction. The Q701 treble is also better, I guess that might be a bit of a weakness of the 550s, the treble isn't bad, but it's just not great; it's ok, if anything, maybe I'd describe it as a bit 'weird' sounding, without being to explain why exactly...

But to go back to bass, you have to make the distinction between mid-bass bump & bass extension, lacking bass vs no mid-bass bump, <80hz vs no mid bass bump, etc.

An old classic for me is Kenji Kawai's live Ghost in the Shell, when the drums get going, it separates the boys from the men. It exposes bass capabilities and bass response; and playing them on say Q701 vs 550 makes a big difference... The Q701 isn't bad per se, it's just not the same thing as the 550 or other headphone with really good bass capabilities!

Spoiler: KJ

Too bad there's only 'low' res/quality versions on youtube, but anyway, gives an idea...

i will have to continue to revisit these things in my mind and ears and maybe over time i
will have a better understanding of the relationship between my ears and the machines that measure Hz response
and also the relationship between what i like and what other people like.
maybe because i do have tinnitus that i don't like treble as much.
i certainly used to love treble, but now sometimes i disconnect the tweeters on my speakers and i seem to like that just as much.
but its not because of pain, its because i dont think that cymbals contribute very much to music and that with some devices .
the upper mids and trebles crowd out the fundamental frequencies of the instrument or voice that is carrying the melody or solo part.
there is also the subject of how the ear hears relative frequencies at different volume levels. in addition, the headphone drivers all have
varying impedance related to volume and frequency. so the frequency charts are made at only one setting.
you cant be confused by your own ears in terms of what you like. its the only thing that matters.
i will keep listening to the bass on the k553 and the k240 and as always over time will see if my perceptions become more enhanced.

 

[491838]

my point is that you cant compare other people's listening experiences to your own.. ..what is considered good to one person may not be to another.,,, same with women's beauty.. and yes you can compare any two things to each other if the basis is your own two ears, nothing else really matters. . ..also, regarding open back to closed back.. if your car is parked in a quiet place.. do you like the car stereo with the windows closed or windows opened????.. most people would say that the sound loses bass with the windows ,,,open. to me , this is the obvious thing to say, but i definitely like th sound with the windows not completely closed... i listen to what my ears say.. i cant hear text about sound on the internet , nor graphs. ..there is such an abundance of audio gear in this part of the country , west coast usa, people who look can get a first hand experience at listening to and owning all kinds of things, sometimes very very cheap. and the results arent anything like what people say on the internet. .it is the same with the propaganda we have here in america. people dont even realize we are subject to more propaganda than anywhere in the world.

Actually, windows don't block or enhance bass at all. They might resonate to a certain frequency but in a room, for instance, a window is essentially a "free" bass trap in that it allows bass to pass through.

I've heard from a few reliable people that the K550/K553 is very neutral and does resemble a speaker and it sounds that way to me as well. Maybe you're very sensible to treble (your hearing must be really good then) but my initial impression was that the treble was slightly recessed (but it's mostly a tuning and detail difference). The K550 MKI did have a low treble spike that annoyed people but my MKII does not and neither should the K553.

If you have a chance, try the K712 out. They're not neutral either, with some low mid\upper mid coloration and bright(ish) treble, but they sound fantastic detail wise. They're also perfectly usable for mixing\mastering, especially given their superior sound stage and imaging. They apparently beat the HD600/650 for detail and sound stage\imaging.

 

[bbtang]

Actually, windows don't block or enhance bass at all. They might resonate to a certain frequency but in a room, for instance, a window is essentially a "free" bass trap in that it allows bass to pass through.

I've heard from a few reliable people that the K550/K553 is very neutral and does resemble a speaker and it sounds that way to me as well. Maybe you're very sensible to treble (your hearing must be really good then) but my initial impression was that the treble was slightly recessed (but it's mostly a tuning and detail difference). The K550 MKI did have a low treble spike that annoyed people but my MKII does not and neither should the K553.

If you have a chance, try the K712 out. They're not neutral either, with some low mid\upper mid coloration and bright(ish) treble, but they sound fantastic detail wise. They're also perfectly usable for mixing\mastering, especially given their superior sound stage and imaging. They apparently beat the HD600/650 for detail and sound stage\imaging.

it would be great to try out the k712, but in the end i want a mobile solution and from what i understand the K712 is not that easy to drive. i kind of think, but cant know until i hear it, that the high mids and low trebles on the k712 is going to bother me, similarly as it does on the k553.
but i will try to check one out if i can find one locally. reading about the k712 on headfi , it mentions that compared to the k701 it is boosted below 1K, in a relation to above 1k, which sounds good to me.



when you say glass does not block bass, you are talking about the outside of the car.. i am talking about the inside of the car. im talking about the fixed air volume created by the space, .. . the inside of a car is like the inside of a speaker cabinet , or the back side of a closed back headphone. so when you open the window it is like a port. the resonant frequency response of this chamber affects the sound and you can really feel the difference if you try it. even if you are in a small room with speakers, and the room has windows and doors but they are closed.. if you open the door you will notice the difference in sound.
at a certain point when the room gets large enough it starts to affect reverberation ,, which is higher frequency,, so like in a stadium for example, it sounds totally different than in an indoor arena.. but in rooms smaller rooms or cars it affects the bass and lower end response. try it.. just have your stereo on with the car parked with a tune that has some bass and soon as you open the window you will hear the response change ... open systems as opposed to closed systems have a completely different sound, and this is evident in headphones and a lot of people prefer the open sound, including myself.. because closed acoustical systems always create a resonant effect that may artificially increase bass response that is naturally lost . its sounds artificial.. hopefully you will try the car experiment and get back to us.

so far as my ears, i think my ears only go up to about 15k..and hearing is more a function of the brain than anything else.. you know how when we communicate with people it is often or always impossible to exaclty know what they meant. and when you or I listen in an analytical way to a headphone , we might listen to the bass one pass, the mids on another pass , and the highs on another pass. or we might try to isolate instruments on each pass. the amplifier is usually capable of recreating signal input more accurately than a musical transducer which has to change electrical signals in to mechanical movement of air. .. same on the input with microphones.. Microphones are all colored.. even if they are meant to be flat. vocal mics are different than instrument mics and ribbon mics sound different from dynamic mics. so the recorded performance is to start off very colored.. on the other end of the amp.. the musical transducers, the speakers or the headphones have an equally difficult job as the microphones.. then the eardrum has to convert the mechanical signal of the air waves to signals that the central nervous system can transmit. and then the brain just decides what it wants to hear anyway. if any body thinks that the best way to understand they are going to like a particular sound is by a graph that is a few kilobytes is crazy.. i think that in forums like this.. people need to do a better job of talking about the bigger picture.. all the graphs and discussion of that has already been done ad infinitum. we need to discuss different paradigms of understanding what we are hearing that give a bigger picture to an understanding of the equipment and most importantly its users, which are us and the enjoyment of that.. one could say that the most truthful representation of the music is the most important job and that that is what the graphs show, but i would disagree with both of those points. sometimes in discussions we have to agree on things in order to move forward, but i think we have all already done that. and what we are doing is really beating a dead horse with a stick.. so go in the car and open the window...

 

[491838]

Try the K712 if you can and return them if you don't like them. The K550/K553 sound more like bigger IEMs (without any obvious tonal imbalances, at least on the newer models) but the K712 has significantly more detail and phenomenal sound stage and imaging for the money. I still get lost in the music listening to them.