Testing audiophile claims and myths

[Elegiac]

I have autistic ears. Platinum ears. I can win a staring contest with a Ganges River Dolphin.

Seriously though, being neurodivergent can open cognitive doors that may otherwise remain closed. It doesn't automatically equate to an advantage in anything though. I'm pretty sure you can be dumb and autistic.

 

[Davesrose]

I was just about to say exacly this.

But you posted a website thats pure conjecture. Through anecdotal evidence, you could probably make the case of some autistic leanings for every person in history. Also, this is similar to my comparison of the claim that Lincoln was gay, because social mores of the time seem gay now. Anyway, we’ve gotten a call to stay on topic for audio.

 

[gregorio]

I don’t think autistic savants are savants because of autism. I think they’re that in spite of autism. I think they get that way by working to overcome their handicaps, not by surrendering to them. Autistic people can do great things. But not *because* of autism.

How is your assertion different to what many audiophiles do? You’ve just made up an explanation that confirms your belief and are arguing it in a science discussion forum despite the fact it’s contrary to the actual science/facts. From the Wiki page I linked to previously:

“Those with the condition [savant syndrome] generally have a neurodevelopmental condition, such as autism, or have experienced a brain injury.[1] About half of cases are associated with autism, and these individuals may be known as autistic savants [fr].[1] The other half often have some form of central nervous system injury or disease.[1] While the condition usually becomes apparent in childhood, some cases develop later in life.[1]“ -

So, you think that children usually “work to overcome their handicaps” but adults don’t? If autistic savants develop savant syndrome “in spite of autism”, then the vast majority of savants would be ordinary people, not those with autism or a central nervous system injury/disease. And lastly, if they really do develop savant skills “in spite of autism” (rather than due to an actual brain dysfunction), then it would not be possible to artificially replicate savant syndrome by temporarily disabling certain areas of the brain. The known/demonstrated science couldn’t more clearly contradict your made-up assertion!

G

 

[bigshot]

Correlation isn’t causation. There are “savants” who don’t have autism. We just call them prodigies. The term you use defines the group you’re talking about. Semantics.

 

[gregorio]

Correlation isn’t causation.

True but that’s a strawman argument because causation has been proven by the fact that science has replicated savant syndrome by disabling parts of the brain! You are doing exactly what those deluded audiophiles do and that you complain so vociferously about; you’ve presented a false claim based on an erroneous belief and are defending it to the death using fallacious arguments despite the scientific evidence to the contrary! Are you really going to continue being a hypocrite?

G

 

[gregorio]

Forgot to deal with the rest of your false assertion!

There are “savants” who don’t have autism. We just call them prodigies.

That is false, you just made that up! “Savant syndrome is a phenomenon where someone demonstrates exceptional aptitude in one domain, such as art or mathematics, despite significant social or intellectual impairment.[1]” - Wikipedia. Therefore, “Significant social or intellectual impairment” is a requirement for savant syndrome, it is NOT a requirement for a prodigy, so there is a clear difference between a savant and a prodigy!

The term you use defines the group you’re talking about.

And in this case, the group you’re talking about defines the term you use and the terms “prodigy” and “savant” are different because they are different groups!

Semantics.

Yes, semantics, the meaning of language and words. In this case, different words with different meanings, referring to different groups of people.

G

 

[bigshot]

Ok.

 

[71 dB]

I am not a savant nor a prodigy. I just have high functioning autism (Asperger's). That's pretty much my problem. I am too weird to be a "normie", but I'm not weird enough to be a "circus freak" either. People with high functioning autism are so badly understood and even overlooked in society, that it took even myself decades to figure out what I am. I was in my forties when I started to realise what is going on with myself and only now in my fifties do I have a somewhat good understanding. So late for the party! People with severe autism are easily diagnosed at very young age, but people with high functioning autism* mask the autism away even from themselves and the only indicator of something being "off" is the weird struggles in life "normies" don't seem to have that much. These struggle didn't manifest much in my youth. I was just little different than others. Less social and the "math head" in school. It was adulthood that made these struggles come out, because that's when the real "competition in life" begins. That's when I started to feel things are easier for others than they are for others. Not to say life is easy for others, but other people in general seem to have better skills to overcome challenges in life.

* I had never even heard about high functioning autism until a few years ago when I was about 50 years old! For me there was only "severe" autism. That's why I never suspected being autistic myself and of course I didn't study autism and learn about high functioning autism. In fact it was my sister who told me she thinks I have Asperger's. I didn't know what Asperger's is and I started googling. That's what opened the door for me to find out who I am. Without my sister's suspicions I might still today think I am just a weird/introverted "normie" having strange struggles in social interactions etc. Now that I know better I know to mask less to save mental energy and I also understand why and how "normies" are different from me. It makes life easier in that way even if it doesn't remove the struggles I face. At least the struggles make sense to me now.

 

[Elegiac]

Certainly! There are also dumb people with very high IQ, for example actor James Woods.

I don't know anything about James Woods.

Are you differentiating between raw intelligence, and wisdom?

I did google this last night, just to make sure, and the other side of the 'savant' coin would be that 1 in 3 autistic people have an IQ lower than 80.

 

[2leftears]

I have heard arguments against them, since the test designers often are weighting the tests for their own culture (IE an immigrant might not score as well).

That doesn't just apply to IQ tests. I've seen some of the questions you need to answer to pass the British Citizenship test; some of them are barmy. You need to know TV soap opera characters but a modest knowledge of UK international politics is not required... (unless they have improved since I last looked them a few years ago)

 

[Conan1974]

You are not joking with the soap opera characters ?

 

[2leftears]

You are not joking with the soap opera characters ?

I wish I was. The syllabus for the citizenship test contained information on and key characters from the classic Steptoe and Son TV sitcom.

Along with other nationalities, sometimes British society can be surprisingly self-obsessed and insular I'm afraid. But let's not get into British culture and politics; as a non-British person now having lived here for 30+ years, I have seen both the good and bad sides. In international context it is not a bad balance they have struck here.

 

[Conan1974]

There are always good and bad sides. Lets hope we are going to see more and more of the good sides. In every nation.

 

[jlbrach]

stick to the subject of audiophile testing please

 

[bigshot]

I did google this last night, just to make sure, and the other side of the 'savant' coin would be that 1 in 3 autistic people have an IQ lower than 80.

It would be interesting to compare the percentage of savants among people with cognitive disorders to the percentage of prodigies among the general public. I suspect that they might be pretty close to the same. You’d have to count all types of savants though. I know there are ones with Downs Syndrome too. I don’t think Downs Syndrome is responsible for super powers either.