Steve999
smooth, DARK
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Testing audiophile claims and myths
Making-up false assertions is rude anywhere but it’s even more rude in a science discussion forum because it’s a perversion of science. So in response to that level of rudeness, “No”, I’m not embarrassed in the slightest.
Indeed it would but of course you’re being hypocritical in the extreme! By making false assertions you have actively encouraged “fights” rather than discussions and by defending those false assertions with fallacies and more false assertions you have virtually guaranteed a fight. If you really preferred a discussion you would have asked a question instead of making a false claim and you wouldn’t just keep repeating and defending that false claim with even more falsehoods!
But it’s not “a very well known term” or even an appropriate term for audio editing and Wikipedia just states that it “may refer” to audio editing, not that it is actually used that way. The workflow for music creation is substantially different from image editing and therefore the term is not appropriate.
Case in point: Of course YOU (not “we”) can continue to be rude by making false assumptions AND false assertions but then of course you’re encouraging a “fight” instead of a discussion!
1. Where did I state you’re incapable of understanding audio production? Just another falsehood to encourage a “fight”.
2. Sure the software is “non-linear just like your fields”, it also has a GUI, input and output devices and a number of other similarities but that does NOT mean the workflow, how it’s used in practice or what’s happening under the hood is the same. That’s just your false assumption, AGAIN!
But you’ve admitted you’re not part of the professional “audio community” and worse still, you’re arguing with someone who is and has been for about 30 years. Unless you know where, when and why 24/48 or 24/96 are common audio formats/files (which clearly you don’t) then it’s a straw man argument, again!
That too is yet another lie! You think that lying is not rude and that it encourages discussion rather than “fights” do you?
Clearly your answer to my last post is “no” you’re not embarrassed, at least not embarrassed enough to actually stop lying and making false and hypocritical assertions!
G
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Not sure if im supposed to laugh or cry that this flame war is still going on and it still involves the same people
I’ve watched the video now. It is good and unusually, I can’t find anything to disagree with. The visualisations are good because they would certainly help those not used to seeing these types of effects/artefacts.
A couple of points worth elaborating: Sometimes you can have a fairly dire looking output but actually you can’t hear any of the mess (as Worrell demonstrated with oversampling turned off). It’s also worth mentioning that not many plugins provide an oversampling option. This is because most plugins are not non-linear (and don’t benefit from oversampling) and many of those plugins which are, such as vintage compressor and limiter emulations for example, always benefit from oversampling, so they automatically oversample and there’s no option to change/disengage it. The only plugins with the option are therefore those where only some of the settings/parameters produce a non-linear response, most commonly certain compressor plugins.
One last point to consider: To upsample, the oversampling plugin has to apply an anti-alias filter and once done it’s processing it obviously has to down-sample back to the input sample rate (say 44.1) which of course requires applying another brickwall (anti-alias) filter. So, it’s entirely possible that a dozen or more applications of various anti-alias filters have been applied to various parts of the mix or the whole mix. In addition, there’s the decimation (anti-alias) filter applied during recording and then during mastering a few more applications of oversampling plugins, plus very likely a couple of round-trips though a DAC and ADC (each of which applies another decimation filter and an anti-image filter) to route to and from outboard analogue processors. And lastly, some plugins only operate at one sample rate, some Virtual Instruments, convolution reverbs, synths/samplers, drum machines and others which are reliant on samples, so again the input and output is resampled (and brickwall filtered) to match.
So by the time we’re finished mixing and mastering, the song/track could easily have had a couple of dozen Nyquist limit brickwall filters applied by a range of different manufacturers. This rather puts into perspective the audiophile BS regarding just one more brickwall filter in their DAC (and one more oversampling process)!
G
bigshot
Headphoneus Supremus
It's really simple. Anyone who's been on the internet for a while realizes that a lot of users don't see other users as people. In person, they would never treat people that way. If they did, they would have a permanently broken nose! But when you're just an avatar and a bunch of text, they have no compunction treating you like dog crap. They speak entirely for their own benefit and you are just a punching bag to them. There's a simple solution to that... Speak past them to everyone else in the forum. Don't quote their messages, don't mention them by name (invoking the demon), don't directly address their comments- obliquely keep talking on topic. Simply state what you want to say and ignore them. The more you reply to them, the worse it will get.
The other thing that is important is to try your darnedest NOT TO BE A PERSON LIKE THAT YOURSELF. This is actually more important than my first advice. I struggle with this at times. Fire feeds fire. If there is a mental condition that makes that difficult for you, or if your ego keeps shoving common sense aside, LISTEN TO PEOPLE AROUND YOU. They'll make it perfectly clear when you're stepping over the line. Make an effort to pay attention to the unspoken social clues.
Some people just flat out don't care, or they have a personality disorder that prevents them from caring. They make no effort to not be an ass and they don't listen to anyone else. Just talk past them and focus on people who are constructive. Encourage the kind of discussion you want to have. You can bet that the asses will be doing that. It would be nice if moderation would deal with problems at the source, but they won't.
The most fertile field isn't any good for farming if it's plowed with salt.
The other thing that is important is to try your darnedest NOT TO BE A PERSON LIKE THAT YOURSELF. This is actually more important than my first advice. I struggle with this at times. Fire feeds fire. If there is a mental condition that makes that difficult for you, or if your ego keeps shoving common sense aside, LISTEN TO PEOPLE AROUND YOU. They'll make it perfectly clear when you're stepping over the line. Make an effort to pay attention to the unspoken social clues.
Some people just flat out don't care, or they have a personality disorder that prevents them from caring. They make no effort to not be an ass and they don't listen to anyone else. Just talk past them and focus on people who are constructive. Encourage the kind of discussion you want to have. You can bet that the asses will be doing that. It would be nice if moderation would deal with problems at the source, but they won't.
The most fertile field isn't any good for farming if it's plowed with salt.
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Why is science/objectivity banned on other threads?
bigshot
Headphoneus Supremus
Because the manufacturers (read: advertisers) prefer subjective testimonials to actual head to head comparisons. Science tends to indicate that the differences between different makes and models of electronic devices isn't audible, and the best suited transducers are completely unique to the individual head shape and hearing. That eliminates 90% of their sales pitch.
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I thought this was a hobby community based forum
I read shilling is not allowed.
If that were the case then half the posts on head-fi would have to be deleted. Of course, it depends on exactly how you define “shilling” and even in the case of the full-blown professional shill, it’s hard to identify and prove.
G
bigshot
Headphoneus Supremus
It isn't easy to identify shills. The manufacturers contact prominent posters through PM and offer them free items for "consideration and review". The posters don't always mention that in their posts.
Ryokan
Headphoneus Supremus
Do manufacturers make something purposefully flawed so they can bring out a mkii shortly after?
Davesrose
Headphoneus Supremus
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Canon got some flack for introduction the 6D MKII, and its sensor performance was slightly worst than the MKI (which was also very surprising as other Canon models being introduced had quite improved dynamic range). It did have improvements with all other aspects, though. For some companies, they may need to introduce a mkii because they didn't spend enough time with R&D with the first model.
bigshot
Headphoneus Supremus
I don't think they choose to make things that are deliberately flawed. Manufacturers have newer models already in the pipeline when they release a new model. The consumer needs to decide what features are important to him and choose on the basis of that, not just automatically buying the latest model. "New and improved" definitely means new, but not necessarily improved.
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