Testing audiophile claims and myths

[IanB52]

It is all about energy. If you tweak a narrow band then 1dB is hard to hear, also dependent on where it falls in the ears' sensitive range. It you alter a very wide band then we are really sensitive. I recall a paper where they proved that the RIAA curve needs 0.1dB accuracy in the midrange poles and zeros of the EQ, because a tiny error leads to octaves of energy being higher or lower than the other section.

I've been able to hear HF shelf EQ cut/boost down to .25db. .5db is not that hard either, but you are right, these are easier to hear with a really wide band and a narrow band might be harder to hear.

 

[bigshot]

Hearing a difference with tones isn’t the same as setting a response curve for listening to commercially recorded music in the home. A detent every .5dB is fine for the purposes of a music listener. .25 and .1dB may be needed for studio work, and it’s interesting to talk about in theory, but in practice it’s a totally different scale than the average music listener would need.

 

[redrol]

.25 for studio work? I mean jesus thats pushing it. .5 is kind of standard and you would need some good a&& ears.

 

[bigshot]

With tones, studio calibration is as precise as they can get it. I agree that .5 is fine for home equalization.

The thing that happens around here all the time is we start out talking about home audio, then a scientific genius pipes up about exceptions that are so extreme, none of us have run into them. Then someone starts applying studio standards, and then standards for peer reviewed studies. We fade from hearing with human ears to talking about expensive measurement mics… and pretty soon we aren’t talking about listening to a Beethoven album in our living room any more. The scale shifts so much, it’s impossible to satisfy the footnote brigade at all and they start saying I’m not “scientific enough”.

 

[BobG55]

I’ve been using EQ for years. Started off w/ the modest JDS Labs Subjective 3. Then the Schiit Loki Mini followed by the Mini+ & now, the Lokius. My Audio set up is quite modest & I listen to CDs. My two headphones are the HD600 & HD650. EQ makes all the difference in the world and the sound of my set up is excellent. Anyone can check my profile to see the expensive amplifiers, DACs and headphones I’ve owned in the past. My point is : EQ makes all the difference in the world for me anyways and I personally find that my listening pleasure and my bank account have benefited greatly because of it.

Modest indeed : Burson HA160 (at least 12 years old) / Schiit Lokius EQ / TEAC PD-H600, all aluminium, award winning CD player, also 12 years old/ Amazon interconnect cables/ HD600 & HD650 as previously mentioned. That’s it.

 

[bigshot]

Nice solution to the problem!

 

[bfreedma]

With tones, studio calibration is as precise as they can get it. I agree that .5 is fine for home equalization.

The thing that happens around here all the time is we start out talking about home audio, then a scientific genius pipes up about exceptions that are so extreme, none of us have run into them. Then someone starts applying studio standards, and then standards for peer reviewed studies. We fade from hearing with human ears to talking about expensive measurement mics… and pretty soon we aren’t talking about listening to a Beethoven album in our living room any more. The scale shifts so much, it’s impossible to satisfy the footnote brigade at all and they start saying I’m not “scientific enough”.

Once again, this is the “Sound Science” forum, not the “Bigshot’s Opinions on Home Audio Reproduction“ forum.

You should stop hypocritically mocking the other subjectivists who post here - they are your peers. The exceptions you don’t like discussing enable and form the basis for their fraudulent claims when left out of the conversation.

 

[71 dB]

Once again, this is the “Sound Science” forum, not the “Bigshot’s Opinions on Home Audio Reproduction“ forum.

We don't live in an exactly identical house as Bigshot does with exactly the same furniture/acoustics using exactly the same audio gear listening to the exactly same music.
That's why we may not do things exactly the same way Bigshot does, but it may still work for us.

 

[bigshot]

Bla bla bla. This is a home audio forum, it’s not an abuse forum. I don’t know what it was that I said that made you go all scorned lover with me. But there’s no excuse for your behavior. Sit down and wait until you have something constructive to post.

71dB, for some reason suggesting that EQ might improve a person’s system isn’t scientific enough. I don’t claim people should do things exactly the way I do, I just share what works for me and explain the basic concepts I used to get there. You don’t have to be Isaac Newton to have an apple fall on your head. Gravity isn’t just for stuffy scientists.

 

[bfreedma]

Bla bla bla. This is a home audio forum, it’s not an abuse forum. I don’t know what it was that I said that made you go all scorned lover with me. But there’s no excuse for your behavior. Sit down and wait until you have something constructive to post.

71dB, for some reason suggesting that EQ might improve a person’s system isn’t scientific enough. I don’t claim people should do things exactly the way I do, I just share what works for me and explain the basic concepts I used to get there. You don’t have to be Isaac Newton to have an apple fall on your head. Gravity isn’t just for stuffy scientists.

You just posted on an anti-science rant in Sound Science, insulting anyone who didn’t agree with your personal threshold of “science“ and wonder why you got a negative response back? My apologies, Your Majesty

You have a lot of personal/psychological commentary about other people because they don’t agree with you. To date, I haven’t responded in kind.

I don’t think you would enjoy being on the receiving end of the same, but I’d be happy to psychoanalyze your posts if you keep this up. Something about the need for you to always be right is sure to come up…

 

[bigshot]

Whatever.

 

[IanB52]

.25 for studio work? I mean jesus thats pushing it. .5 is kind of standard and you would need some good a&& ears.

The use case is typically for mastering where they want to slice it as thin as possible to push treble right up to the point before it starts getting sibilant or harsh. It can be surprisingly difficult to get this right. You can hear it if the band is wide enough as with a shelving EQ.

 

[71 dB]

71dB, for some reason suggesting that EQ might improve a person’s system isn’t scientific enough. I don’t claim people should do things exactly the way I do, I just share what works for me and explain the basic concepts I used to get there. You don’t have to be Isaac Newton to have an apple fall on your head. Gravity isn’t just for stuffy scientists.

Yeah, but we could use billions to make our systems better. At what point the system is good enough? For me it already is and I can stop wasting money.

 

[bigshot]

EQ is cheap. It’s not like chasing down the amp and DAC rabbit hole.

 

[71 dB]

EQ is cheap. It’s not like chasing down the amp and DAC rabbit hole.

Price is not the only aspect. Where to put the EQ can be tricky. If I EQ the speaker sound to compensate the room acoustics for example, that EQ will affect headphones too, which might require completely different EQ. Since there is nothing wrong with my speaker or headphone sound in regards of frequency response (because the response is good enough to allow getting used to it) I don't need to think about EQ. Cross-feed for headphones is the only thing I do, because it is important for me.