[camusmuse]

I have a few feet of that Vecteur wire hiding somewhere in the basement!

 
Heh...somehow I believe you have more than a few feet...there seemed to be alot of this stuff floating around in the mid nineties.  I have/had a BUNCH of it in varying lengths from customers that had tried the cable on its own and didnt like it.  I paired it with some other "magic" wire(high silver content), made a braid and made a few pairs of biamp wires with the Vecteur on mids and the silver on highs.  I basically used them as passive equalization.  Didnt really need more high end with EMIT tweets I was running ATT, so my "custom mess" went into one of my wire bins for hibernation...lol.  That was almost twenty years ago....(sigh....lol)
 
FWIW, I also have Vecteur's flagship speaker wire from the same time period(about half an inch thick, cream colored; same wire inside IIRC, just more runs of it and twisted funny.  My old boss "beta" tested them for a short while in his megabuck system and found they had the same flavor as the "cheap" stuff above.  Even at below cost it was enough for him to bring the cables in one day, throw them down and say, "I dont ever want to see these again!!!".  I gave him a fraction of the fraction he paid for the cable and I actually "tied" the two pieces together and used them for my sub install in my old work van....(I *think* the pair MSRP'd at over a grand w/o termination) 

.  The van was sold, well... traded, but I was able to salvage the cables.  Since then they too have been in a wire bin, right next to some Accusound Accustat "silver" wire(brown casing, also about a half inch in diameter and "directional")...someday they will make it to my "megabuck" system, again as passive eq, but tri or quad amped. I'm building what is basically an Infinity QLS-1 with (4) "monsoon" planars instead of EMITs for tweets, (8) Peerless 2"dome mids, and I am still working on bottom end.  Cant decide if I should further copy Infinity with a 4" "coupling" low-mid like they used, or go with woofer that is flat up to the Peerless roll off.  If I do that, I definitely need a dedicated sub.....but I would.....
 
whhoooooaaaa....wait a minute there silly...... sorry...forgot this is a headphone site

 
 
please excuse my verbiage and indiscretion...I hope I have not offended anyone...

  sometimes my mind runs away with itself....

 

[camusmuse]

  Very reasonable prices.
 
http://www.btg-audio.com

Quite reasonable.  But right now I have probably spent more on solder than anything...most of the stuff I have lying around.  Did have to get a few connectors. 
 
Or are you commenting on my "build quality" in the pics, like I shouldnt be building cables......

...(dramatically)....you'll get my soldering iron when you pry it from my cold dead hand....ok, maybe not so cold....

 
Yeah I know the build is a little rough around the edges, but these were never meant to be put on display, just my ears...and they cant hear the crooked cuts on the wire reliefs...at least I dont think they can....where is that damn mind of mine??? 

 

[Chris J]

Heh...somehow I believe you have more than a few feet...there seemed to be alot of this stuff floating around in the mid nineties.  I have/had a BUNCH of it in varying lengths from customers that had tried the cable on its own and didnt like it.  I paired it with some other "magic" wire(high silver content), made a braid and made a few pairs of biamp wires with the Vecteur on mids and the silver on highs.  I basically used them as passive equalization.  Didnt really need more high end with EMIT tweets I was running ATT, so my "custom mess" went into one of my wire bins for hibernation...lol.  That was almost twenty years ago....(sigh....lol)

FWIW, I also have Vecteur's flagship speaker wire from the same time period(about half an inch thick, cream colored; same wire inside IIRC, just more runs of it and twisted funny.  My old boss "beta" tested them for a short while in his megabuck system and found they had the same flavor as the "cheap" stuff above.  Even at below cost it was enough for him to bring the cables in one day, throw them down and say, "I dont ever want to see these again!!!".  I gave him a fraction of the fraction he paid for the cable and I actually "tied" the two pieces together and used them for my sub install in my old work van....(I *think* the pair MSRP'd at over a grand w/o termination)  :rolleyes: .  The van was sold, well... traded, but I was able to salvage the cables.  Since then they too have been in a wire bin, right next to some Accusound Accustat "silver" wire(brown casing, also about a half inch in diameter and "directional")...someday they will make it to my "megabuck" system, again as passive eq, but tri or quad amped. I'm building what is basically an Infinity QLS-1 with (4) "monsoon" planars instead of EMITs for tweets, (8) Peerless 2"dome mids, and I am still working on bottom end.  Cant decide if I should further copy Infinity with a 4" "coupling" low-mid like they used, or go with woofer that is flat up to the Peerless roll off.  If I do that, I definitely need a dedicated sub.....but I would.....

whhoooooaaaa....wait a minute there silly...... sorry...forgot this is a headphone site  

please excuse my verbiage and indiscretion...I hope I have not offended anyone...:blink:   sometimes my mind runs away with itself....

I only have 18 feet of Vecteur interconnect wire in my basement wire bin!

 

[camusmuse]

I only have 18 feet of Vecteur interconnect wire in my basement wire bin!

Dare I ask how much you paid?  Really just curious.  I dont know alot about the company.  Ive used my stash of Vecteur wire in countless speaker projects as well as interconnects over the years....probably down to about 50' or so of what was pictured...  In the process of moving my workshop so everything is askew...probably (5) 35 gallon bins/totes full of wire leftovers from my "quarter of a century audio odyssey".... 

  

 

[Chris J]

Dare I ask how much you paid?  Really just curious.  I dont know alot about the company.  Ive used my stash of Vecteur wire in countless speaker projects as well as interconnects over the years....probably down to about 50' or so of what was pictured...  In the process of moving my workshop so everything is askew...probably (5) 35 gallon bins/totes full of wire leftovers from my "quarter of a century audio odyssey".... :confused_face:   

IIRC, my brother got it for free.
It was a heavy, thick, solid core, shielded interconnect, my brother used it as speaker cable.

 

[camusmuse]

IIRC, my brother got it for free.
It was a heavy, thick, solid core, shielded interconnect, my brother used it as speaker cable.

Sounds about right.  Alot of people drank the cool aid on these wires and spent some decent coin.  Most ditched them pretty quickly.  There was some success, good with "harsh" SS amps, two way full range speakers(woofer, tweeter, but no mid); but the overall usability of such a cable("heavy, thick, solid core", not too sure if it could be called "shielded" though)  for a full spectrum loudspeaker typically ended up with a very pronounced midrange bump or roll off of highs or lows....however you want to look at it.  It also has some goofy wire "memory" after being used in a few different "applications" because of the solid core wire, one has to be careful with sharp bends.  It does OK as an interconnect, especially if you add a braided copper tube shield and some preferably clear heat shrink tubing, though I do think it is a shame to cover up a pretty cool looking cable...IMO, but if you need the shielding I will take function over form any day.  I could never hear any difference with the supposed "directionality" of the cable...I dont think electrons care which way a wire "goes"....IMO.  I have also striped the clear plastic/rubber "shielding" off and used the individual wires for point to point wiring in various projects from crossovers/internal speaker wiring to equipment modifications.  It seems to be a very high quality copper and nice to work with.  When the outer is stripped the individual conductors have their own clear insulation for those that dont know.  It is easy to twist and braid when stripped too, just not too flexible and LOTS of memory...so get your braids and twists done right the first time or just start with new wire...lol.
 
Again, I find it very useful for passive equalization.  I think they would be a good match for my DT770/80 since they seem to lack a bit in the mids from the factory; it might help, it might not.  I have never done any actual frequency response measurements, but have just gone by what I heard from my own experience: copper best for mids and lows if there is a thick enough gauge, and silver for "brightening" up the highs.  Obviously the actual chemical composition of the material used in each individual type, and or brand, of wire can vary greatly, especially once you get into plated wires and other esoteric "magic" wires.  Possibilities though finite, are substantial for the "wire fanatic".
 
Really I just saw them as my best option for what I have lying around for my first balanced cable build.  I have some other vintage interconnects(Musical Concepts) that have their coating peeling off and the RCA connectors are oxidizing but the wire is still just fine; so they are also under consideration with some new heat shrink and terminations.  They are coaxial wires though with only one shielded multi strand silver plated(I think) center conductor, the shield obviously is the other conductor.  Not sure how "balanced" that would sound?  I know that electronically they would work, especially if I sleeved them in copper braid like mentioned before for extra shielding, but I havent seen too many custom wires made with any type of coax.  I will experiment with it though.  I also have some incredibly flexible coax of a much smaller gauge that I might use.  Finally, I do have some apparently "proper" wire coming from FleaBay(Canare L-4E6S) that was just over ten bucks shipped for ten feet, cant hurt to *try* to do things *normal* I suppose....

.......

 
So have you ever tried the wire out for yourself, or get to hear how they sounded on your brother's system?  Always curious as to other peoples' perception when it comes cables, always looking to learn...

 

[Steve Eddy]

You've got the right idea in the bolded part there, sorta. There's a schiitton of pseudoscience tossed about and I want to be careful not to get dragged into "sound science"... but here's a overview:

- a lof of the ideas of differential scattering (ie: different frequencies will diffract at different angles, thus take longer/shorter paths to the destination) are valid... but do sorta require that the impediments in question are within an order of magnitude of the wavelengths
- nevermind that this scattering thing is kinda based on the idea of a particle zipping from source to destination, which is really not how electricity works... a wire is more like a hydraulic tube with your source acting as a piston (fun thought experiment: now think of the whole voltage amps vs current amps as a pressure vs flow rate thing and imagine what kind of a change in architecture that entails)
- grain boundaries and impurities do affect overall electrical conductivity, sorta like dirt or obstructions
- does this affect "pressure" from source to destination in the audible frequency range? well that's a debate for sound science. I think I can safely assert that it does interfere with the ultrasonic garbage from DSD though
- as a whole though, a high purity low grain boundary metal is good, if nothing else strictly from the perspective of resistance to oxidation/corrosion
- except your voice coils aren't made from it
- nor the circuit traces in the amp, nor the leads on any of the components, etc

What gets overlooked is the fact that whatever the effect of impurities and/or grain boundaries, it will be thoroughly swamped by the thermal noise of the wire itself as a consequence of being at room temperature. And you'll never hear the thermal noise of the wire in the cable because it will be thoroughly swamped by the thermal noise produced by the voice coil of the headphones (the magnitude of the noise is a function of temperature and resistance and generally speaking, the resistance of the voice coil will be orders of magnitude greater than the resistance of the wire in the cable). And you'll never hear the thermal noise produced by the voice coil of the headphone because it will be thoroughly swamped by the ambient noise of the environment you're listening in unless that happens to be an anechoic chamber.

The thermal noise is produced by lattice vibrations which scatter the electrons and reduce their mean free path. Nearly all of the wire's resistance is due to these lattice vibrations and the resultant thermal noise it produces.

se

 

[camusmuse]

Doesnt everyone have an anechoic chamber for their listening room???......  What really bugs me is physically tapping on even the head band while the 'phones are on my head...sounds like I am hitting a kick drum...lol. 
 
I am curious though, at what temp do things "change"?

 

[wuwhere]

Isn't thermal noise beyond the hearing of mere humans?

 

[Steve Eddy]

Doesnt everyone have an anechoic chamber for their listening room???......  What really bugs me is physically tapping on even the head band while the 'phones are on my head...sounds like I am hitting a kick drum...lol. 

Reminds me of the old joke...

PATIENT: Hey Doc! It hurts when I do this (waving arm up and down)
DOCTOR: Then don't do that.

I am curious though, at what temp do things "change"?

Not sure what you mean by "change." Can you elaborate?

se

 

[Steve Eddy]

Isn't thermal noise beyond the hearing of mere humans?

In terms of frequency, no. It's a broadband noise. Think of the noise you hear when you tune an AM radio off station. Or Google "white noise." I'm sure there are some recordings available.

But in terms of magnitude, yes, it's beyond the hearing of mere humans. At least in the context of cables and headphone voice coils.

se

 

[camusmuse]

Reminds me of the old joke...

PATIENT: Hey Doc! It hurts when I do this (waving arm up and down)
DOCTOR: Then don't do that.

Not sure what you mean by "change." Can you elaborate?

se

Well, you stated that because the wire was at room temperature, the thermal noise from both the wire and the transducer would mask any of the impurity or grain distortions.  That leads me to believe that there is a temperature(probably lower) at which the thermal noise does not affect the wire or transducer enough to mask said impurities.  What temperature does that change happen?  I assume that it varies from metal to metal and transducer to transducer but I would think that a general range could be ascertained.  
 
Love that joke....

 

[Steve Eddy]

Well, you stated that because the wire was at room temperature, the thermal noise from both the wire and the transducer would mask any of the impurity or grain distortions.  That leads me to believe that there is a temperature(probably lower) at which the thermal noise does not affect the wire or transducer enough to mask said impurities.  What temperature does that change happen?  I assume that it varies from metal to metal and transducer to transducer but I would think that a general range could be ascertained.

It would be down around absolute zero (-273F). For typical electronics grade wire, grain boundaries and impurities have just a very small effect on the wire's resistance. So you wouldn't need to go too far above absolute zero before the thermal noise would start to become dominant.

Love that joke....

An oldie but a goodie.

se

 

[camusmuse]

It would be down around absolute zero (-273F). For typical electronics grade wire, grain boundaries and impurities have just a very small effect on the wire's resistance. So you wouldn't need to go too far above absolute zero before the thermal noise would start to become dominant.
An oldie but a goodie.

se

Why do I have a sinking feeling that some audio nut has already addressed this with some sort of liquid nitrogen cooling contraption to lower the temp of their wire to chase that forever elusive "perfect" sound? 
 
Sorry for the OT content, sometimes I just gotta know....

  plus who knows....maybe I will be pulling apart an AC unit for parts someday...though I doubt that "freon" could get anywhere close to the theoretical -273*C* (-460F).....
 
All and all, another audio catch 22?

 

[Steve Eddy]

Why do I have a sinking feeling that some audio nut has already addressed this with some sort of liquid nitrogen cooling contraption to lower the temp of their wire to chase that forever elusive "perfect" sound?

I'm sure it's only a matter of time.

Sorry for the OT content, sometimes I just gotta know....:wink_face:   plus who knows....maybe I will be pulling apart an AC unit for parts someday...though I doubt that "freon" could get anywhere close to the theoretical -273*C* (-460F).....

Oops. My bad. That was indeed -273C.

Liquid nitrogen is relatively cheap and can get you down to -196C.

All and all, another audio catch 22?

You might say that.

se