[DoctaCosmos]

I hardly listened to any lower end headphones as I was on the prowl for my ideal setup the whole time lol. But I made an exception to stop and talk to Jeff and listen to his z7 in between. So yes, they were going against world class headphones lol. I'm still amazed at some of the cans I heard that actually hurt my ears.

 

[zazex]

   
Well, you have to take into account the fact that he also heard other headphones like the HE-400i, HE-560, etc... around the same time he heard the Z7.
 
(Please correct me if I'm wrong on this, DoctaCosmos)
 
And all of those cans reproduce bass with very low distortion, so it is very easy to hear "one-note bass" with pretty much anything else.
 
It's all about perspective here.
 
I'm seeing a trend... where folks who haven't scaled to higher cans (or heard them) would praise the Z7 to no end.
 
But those who have experienced planar magnetics and/or higher-end cans like the TH900 feel the Z7 could do certain things better. And I don't blame them. Their ears are already used to the higher-end cans.

 
I read your posts, you seem like a thoughtful guy
 
Have you detailed this 'trend' you're seeing?

 

[Bill-P]

 
I read your posts, you seem like a thoughtful guy
 
Have you detailed this 'trend' you're seeing?

 
Well, I'm seeing folks who are accustomed to high-end planar magnetics like HE-500/HE-560/HE-6 not liking them a lot. There are some exceptions, but I'm seeing more folks who have heard those other cans nitpicking the Z7 for its sound.
 
In contrast, some folks who are coming from lower-end cans are praising the Z7 to no end (I mean, you can look at some of their profiles to get an idea of what else they have).
 
And personally, I see nothing wrong with that. It would be nice if the Z7 had the technical prowess of planar magnetic headphones, but if it can't, it's still a pretty good dynamic headphone.
 
And personally, I belong to the camp that prefers a darker, less sparkly sound with good and expansive soundstage and a mushy, less exciting/aggressive sound, so the Z7 is still one of those headphones that I will try the first chance I get.
 
The thing is... the Z7 has the advantage of comfort, and its closed design makes it appealing for those looking for a transportable setup.
 

I hardly listened to any lower end headphones as I was on the prowl for my ideal setup the whole time lol. But I made an exception to stop and talk to Jeff and listen to his z7 in between. So yes, they were going against world class headphones lol. I'm still amazed at some of the cans I heard that actually hurt my ears.

 
Yeah, some world-class headphones, for some reason, have a tuning that's less agreeable as far as listening comfort goes. That's why I don't like the HD800, HE-6, HE-500, etc... (the SR-009 is okay thanks to its speed, but it's still a bit too bright)
 
It wasn't until I modded the HE-560 that I could truly settle in and call it the best headphone I have ever heard.
 
And that's only as far as sound goes. As far as comfort goes, God... the last Hifiman headphones clamp so friggin' hard, and Audeze headphones are very very heavy even though their tuning is much more to my preference (save for soundstage and airiness).
 
I think the Z7, for all that it doesn't do (technical stuffs), at least does some things well like comfort and listening fatigue, and I think that should be on top of the list for most higher-end cans.

 

[kman1211]

   
Well, I'm seeing folks who are accustomed to high-end planar magnetics like HE-500/HE-560/HE-6 not liking them a lot. There are some exceptions, but I'm seeing more folks who have heard those other cans nitpicking the Z7 for its sound.
 
In contrast, some folks who are coming from lower-end cans are praising the Z7 to no end (I mean, you can look at some of their profiles to get an idea of what else they have).
 
And personally, I see nothing wrong with that. It would be nice if the Z7 had the technical prowess of planar magnetic headphones, but if it can't, it's still a pretty good dynamic headphone.
 
And personally, I belong to the camp that prefers a darker, less sparkly sound with good and expansive soundstage and a mushy, less exciting/aggressive sound, so the Z7 is still one of those headphones that I will try the first chance I get.
 
The thing is... the Z7 has the advantage of comfort, and its closed design makes it appealing for those looking for a transportable setup.
 
 
Yeah, some world-class headphones, for some reason, have a tuning that's less agreeable as far as listening comfort goes. That's why I don't like the HD800, HE-6, HE-500, etc... (the SR-009 is okay thanks to its speed, but it's still a bit too bright)
 
It wasn't until I modded the HE-560 that I could truly settle in and call it the best headphone I have ever heard.
 
And that's only as far as sound goes. As far as comfort goes, God... the last Hifiman headphones clamp so friggin' hard, and Audeze headphones are very very heavy even though their tuning is much more to my preference (save for soundstage and airiness).
 
I think the Z7, for all that it doesn't do (technical stuffs), at least does some things well like comfort and listening fatigue, and I think that should be on top of the list for most higher-end cans.

I'm personally not much of an ortho person, mainly because of the comfort, I'm really iffy when it comes to comfort, almost everything bothers me, but I have noticed how refined they tend to be. A lot of flagship headphones do suffer from tuning issues, some are better in terms of tuning than others, but it seems to be a problem with so many flagships. Honestly only the legendary discontinued flagships, i.e. the Orpheus and the R10 seem to truly get the tuning right.

 

[dweaver]

I have heard several $1500 cans at Head-fi meets and have owned the D7000 which was a $1000 headphone when released. While I appreciate the LCD2 I heard as well as the HD800. First They are in a completely different price bracket that I am unwilling to go to. Second they either require a similar or larger outlay of cash on DACs and headphone amps to sound correct which again is outside of what I am willing to spend. Third they often have their own sets of issue that make them less than ideal just like the Z7 with its issues. I have yet to find a headphone that excels at everything. In the end each headphone is designed to be best for the hill the manufacturer has decided make a stand on. The question we all need to ask is how well did they defend that hill, not why they didn't conquer the neighboring hill.

In the case of the Z7, Sony wanted a headphone that conveyed comfort and class physically and a large enveloping sound. I think they nailed that with this headphone in spades. They defended their hill very well. The fact that they decided to tackle a different hill than in the past had made some Sony lovers of yesteryear sadly dismayed and the fact that it doesn't defend some of the mountains other headphone manufacturers designed heir headphones to defend should come as no surprise considering the cost associated with defending those hills.

 

[Bill-P]

  I'm personally not much of an ortho person, mainly because of the comfort, I'm really iffy when it comes to comfort, almost everything bothers me, but I have noticed how refined they tend to be. A lot of flagship headphones do suffer from tuning issues, some are better in terms of tuning than others, but it seems to be a problem with so many flagships. Honestly only the legendary discontinued flagships, i.e. the Orpheus and the R10 seem to truly get the tuning right.

Yeah, comfort is a big issue with these headphones. I could never see myself owning an ortho... until I put the HE-560 on my head this summer.
 
Its tuning was close to my preference with a dark amp, but the selling point for me was comfort. I could wear it for hours, and even an entire day (as I just did today) without much fatigue. It's much better than its older siblings on that front.
 
The sound needed some mild tuning before it was great, but now I can consider it perfect. Many have heard my HE-560 setup, and of a sample of 30 folks... mixed audiophiles/enthusiasts/don't-care folks, I got 25 positive responses and 5 neutral responses. Nearly every single person who heard it (save for 1 who put it on, smiled and said "good" before leaving) commented on how non-fatiguing it was.
 
A head-fi'er who got to hear my HE-560 even remarked that he could see it as an end-game headphone where it was a very good balance between listening/physical comfort and technicality.
 
I mean... to one end, I think sound quality is important, and a realistic presentation is a good goal to chase, but listening fatigue should still be a big consideration.

 

[kman1211]

 
Yeah, comfort is a big issue with these headphones. I could never see myself owning an ortho... until I put the HE-560 on my head this summer.
 
Its tuning was close to my preference with a dark amp, but the selling point for me was comfort. I could wear it for hours, and even an entire day (as I just did today) without much fatigue. It's much better than its older siblings on that front.
 
The sound needed some mild tuning before it was great, but now I can consider it perfect. Many have heard my HE-560 setup, and of a sample of 30 folks... mixed audiophiles/enthusiasts/don't-care folks, I got 25 positive responses and 5 neutral responses. Nearly every single person who heard it (save for 1 who put it on, smiled and said "good" before leaving) commented on how non-fatiguing it was.
 
A head-fi'er who got to hear my HE-560 even remarked that he could see it as an end-game headphone where it was a very good balance between listening/physical comfort and technicality.
 
I mean... to one end, I think sound quality is important, and a realistic presentation is a good goal to chase, but listening fatigue should still be a big consideration.

I really need to listen to the HE-560 sometime. Haven't had the chance to hear it yet. Listening comfort and actual comfort are big deals to me. I'm thankful I find my three main headphones comfortable and non-fatiguing for me on my system. I tuned my system to be non-fatiguing and pleasing to listen to, I plan on upgrading my DAC, I decided to stick with the same brand when I upgrade as they are known for having a similar tuning across all their DACs. 
 
True, to me what matters most is listening comfort and comfort while achieving high-fidelity sound. I'm interested in the Z7 as well, I want to see if I like it or not, I doubt fatigue will be an issue as it seems to be universally considered dark and no one seems to mention any grain in the headphone, which was my main problem with the MA900. Of the flagships I've heard currently in production the K812 was tuned the best to my ears, though in typical AKG fashion, it's extremely picky of the system meaning it can be harsh on some systems, but with the right synergy it's non-fatiguing, very musical and involving, and has that AKG sound I love. 

 

[Lorspeaker]

Had a good session w z7 at the shop..v quiet this time round.
Relied on my familiar sansaclipE18 roadwarrior setup n my testsongs.
Came home thinkg I might gun for one ?

Then I retreived the mt220 from my warehouse
Same testsongs same setup...
Mmmmm....this yamaha could project a similar soundscape...
Tat got me pleasantly confused.
(Normally I dun touch my sansaE18 when I m home.)

So the impulse to grab the z7 is kinda snuffed out for now.

 

[gr8soundz]

I have heard several $1500 cans at Head-fi meets and have owned the D7000 which was a $1000 headphone when released. While I appreciate the LCD2 I heard as well as the HD800. First They are in a completely different price bracket that I am unwilling to go to. Second they either require a similar or larger outlay of cash on DACs and headphone amps to sound correct which again is outside of what I am willing to spend. Third they often have their own sets of issue that make them less than ideal just like the Z7 with its issues. I have yet to find a headphone that excels at everything. In the end each headphone is designed to be best for the hill the manufacturer has decided make a stand on. The question we all need to ask is how well did they defend that hill, not why they didn't conquer the neighboring hill.

In the case of the Z7, Sony wanted a headphone that conveyed comfort and class physically and a large enveloping sound. I think they nailed that with this headphone in spades. They defended their hill very well. The fact that they decided to tackle a different hill than in the past had made some Sony lovers of yesteryear sadly dismayed and the fact that it doesn't defend some of the mountains other headphone manufacturers designed heir headphones to defend should come as no surprise considering the cost associated with defending those hills.

 
Well said.
 
If I could afford it, I too would have some high uber high-end stuff like the HD800s or LCD-XCs and a Tera Player with Chord Hugo to make them sound right. I think the Z7s are amazing given the price (still a pretty penny) and have the comfort and versatility (sounds great with MOST stuff so far) to match. 
 
Some here accept the Z7s as the incredibly comfy, well-built, great sounding and (relative) bargain that they are while others continue to compare their sound to fully open phones and planars that cost 30-300% more. Those continued comparisons alone confirm how good the Z7s are.
 
To paraphrase a car analogy: Incredible sound costs money. How high do you wanna go?

 

[Mickice]

More people will be able to splurge to $800 than $1,400. If by next year they drop $100 they'll be all the more sweeter.

 

[ButtUglyJeff]

I hardly listened to any lower end headphones as I was on the prowl for my ideal setup the whole time lol. But I made an exception to stop and talk to Jeff and listen to his z7 in between. So yes, they were going against world class headphones lol. I'm still amazed at some of the cans I heard that actually hurt my ears.

 
The one "competitor" that got my attention at the meet was the Alpha Primes.  They had more even presentation through the ranges, isolated better, and had zero comfort issues.  But to be fair, they were being driven through some sweet Cavalli amps, and it is $300 more.  One of my meet mistakes was forgetting to "head to head" them, with my Z7s.  But a couple others did, and maybe they'll chime in at some point.
 
The ZMFs were nice, just way, way too dark for my liking.  But very comfie, and tunable....
 
The LCD-XCs were beautiful, just way too heavy and isolated no better then the Z7s...

 

[Oregonian]

Well, you have to take into account the fact that he also heard other headphones like the HE-400i, HE-560, etc... around the same time he heard the Z7.

(Please correct me if I'm wrong on this, DoctaCosmos)

And all of those cans reproduce bass with very low distortion, so it is very easy to hear "one-note bass" with pretty much anything else.

It's all about perspective here.

I'm seeing a trend... where folks who haven't scaled to higher cans (or heard them) would praise the Z7 to no end.

But those who have experienced planar magnetics and/or higher-end cans like the TH900 feel the Z7 could do certain things better. And I don't blame them. Their ears are already used to the higher-end cans.

I don't see the same trend that you do. Not only do I own a HE-6 (which blew away the 560 to me side by side) but I've auditioned the 560, the HE-400, the 400i, the XC, owned the TH 900 and I still think the Z7 is a very good headphone. Very.

And just for the record my HE-6 is the best phone I've ever heard.

Generalizing about people who haven't heard high dollar headphones is not true. It's just personal preferences.

 

[sujitsky]

   
The one "competitor" that got my attention at the meet was the Alpha Primes.  They had more even presentation through the ranges, isolated better, and had zero comfort issues.  But to be fair, they were being driven through some sweet Cavalli amps, and it is $300 more.  One of my meet mistakes was forgetting to "head to head" them, with my Z7s.  But a couple others did, and maybe they'll chime in at some point.
 
The ZMFs were nice, just way, way too dark for my liking.  But very comfie, and tunable....
 
The LCD-XCs were beautiful, just way too heavy and isolated no better then the Z7s...

 
The Cavalli amps were sweet with the Alpha primes. Thanks for letting me try the Z7
 
Hope you found your adapter for the Z7!

 

[dweaver]

I agree 100% with Oregonian, I am an AKG fan that owned the Q701 and K712 when I bought the Z7. Listening to both I appreciated both types of signatures but for many the Z7 would just not be something they could stand. In my case because I could only afford both I sold my K712 for a loss even though I could have returned the Z7 For a full refund. I will likely keep the Q701 for my open headphone.

In the end some people will love this signature and others won't. For those that don't like it, the best they can do is find a headphone they like. For some who love to mod they might be able to dynamat or do some other change to get the Z7 to where they like. For me, at the price of this headphone I am not willing to modify it. I will save my pennies and get the balanced DAC before I do that.

 

[HemiSam]

I'm behind about 300 posts on this thread...LOL.  It's moving faster than I can keep up with so sorry if the following has been addressed previously.
 
I am amping my Z7's with a Woo WA7.  I was A/B'g the Z7's with my HD650's.  I noticed that I had to turn the volume up to drive the Z7's to the same volume level as the HD650's which surprised me a bit.  I realize the Z7's have big drivers, but I'd read a lot about them being relatively easy to drive.
 
Can anyone else confirm (or refute) that the Z7's need more power to drive to the same volume level as the HD650's?   Just want to be sure what I'm seeing is to be expected.
 
Thanks.
 
HS