[Bill-P]

the hd800 is a dynamic driver too and it's fr and thd measurements are objectively better. it is what it is. how it sounds to you is another thing and if you love the sound then there's no need to try and defend the measurements.

The HD800 is fully open, and except for the slight acoustical congestion in the front of the driver where the enclosure makes a seal with your ears (and thus "close" the space), it's fairly clean because it's not being augmented by reflected waves, as opposed to most closed headphones.
 
I actually find Tyll's measurements looking better than the others.
 
His square wave measurements indicate a slightly boomy headphone, with thin sound, and somewhat rolled off bass but not extremely so.
 
The distortions shown are probably as a result of resonance within the ear cup, and I believe that can easily be solved with some dampening materials.
 
Plus from my experience, it's easier to pull the 1-2K region up than to push it down, so the Z7 can still potentially sound more like a midrange-centric headphone once that region is pushed to be on par with the rest, and yet the treble is not piercing from what I can see.
 
I'm actually liking those graphs a lot! Now I can see modding potentials in the Z7.

 

[Makiah S]

 
The HD800 is fully open, and except for the slight acoustical congestion in the front of the driver where the enclosure makes a seal with your ears (and thus "close" the space), it's fairly clean because it's not being augmented by reflected waves, as opposed to most closed headphones.
 
I actually find Tyll's measurements looking better than the others.
 
His square wave measurements indicate a slightly boomy headphone, with thin sound, and somewhat rolled off bass but not extremely so.
 
The distortions shown are probably as a result of resonance within the ear cup, and I believe that can easily be solved with some dampening materials.
 
Plus from my experience, it's easier to pull the 1-2K region up than to push it down, so the Z7 can still potentially sound more like a midrange-centric headphone once that region is pushed to be on par with the rest, and yet the treble is not piercing from what I can see.
 
I'm actually liking those graphs a lot! Now I can see modding potentials in the Z7.

oh gawd, and so it begins lol 

 

[up late]

@bill-p - point is the hd800 is a dynamic driver can that has better treble and bass extension and midrange presence than the z7 based on the measurements. the th900 being a closed can would probably be a better comparison but that's beside the point.

 

[MacedonianHero]

  I've heard the veil on well over a dozen Senns. I personally find the HD 600 slightly more veiled than the HD 650. The extra bit of refinement on the HD 650 makes it sound a bit clearer than the HD 600 to my ears. 

Sorry, I've heard plenty of different Sennheiser headphones and the HD800s are one of the cleanest sounding headphones there are...the HD600s are spectacular and veil free. The HD650s (especially on tube amps) can sound veiled.

 

[Bill-P]

  oh gawd, and so it begins lol 

 
Well, I'm still waiting for my pair to come.
 
And after that, it'll have the behemoth that is my HE-560 to combat before it's accepted into my little family.
 

@bill-p - point is the hd800 is a dynamic driver can that has better treble and bass extension and midrange presence than the z7 based on the measurements.. the th900 being a closed can would probably be a better comparison but that wasn't my point.

The HD800 has problems controlling its treble range in stock form, though. And it didn't improve until after some more modifications, DAC and amp later, so I'd say it's not necessarily "better" than the Z7.
 
Then again, the HD800 has never truly wowed me. I find its sound thin, and that probably contributes to its massive soundstage more than anything else. But it's never sounded weighty, full, or physical enough to convince me that what I'm listening to is a performance and not just a very fine recording.
 
And on the same topic, I find the HD600 able to convey that physicality better, even though it's technically not as competent.

 

[Makiah S]

   
Well, I'm still waiting for my pair to come.
 
And after that, it'll have the behemoth that is my HE-560 to combat before it's accepted into my little family.
 

The HD800 has problems controlling its treble range in stock form, though. And it didn't improve until after some more modifications, DAC and amp later, so I'd say it's not necessarily "better" than the Z7.
 
Then again, the HD800 has never truly wowed me. I find its sound thin, and that probably contributes to its massive soundstage more than anything else. But it's never sounded weighty, full, or physical enough to convince me that what I'm listening to is a performance and not just a very fine recording.

Yea SOUND stage is nice, but I prefer body. My W1000X is a little Narrow but MAN is it deep! It does a great job of conveying weight and a real sense of tactility! 
 
Still though I shouldn't be judgeing the HD 800 till I've actually heard it 

 

[MacedonianHero]

I don't see anything too worrisome. What, in particular, do you refer to?

 
 

  Me neither. Nothing really disappointing there.

 
Me too...the measurements look pretty good. The only critique that jumps out is the high bass distortion. I'm still on the fence with these headphones...what to do, what to do?

 

[up late]

@bill-p - like i said to maxvla - i'm only commenting on the objective measurements. subjective impressions and preferences is another thing.

 

[kman1211]

  Sorry, I've heard plenty of different Sennheiser headphones and the HD800s are one of the cleanest sounding headphones there are...the HD600s are spectacular and veil free. The HD650s (especially on tube amps) can sound veiled.

The HD 800 is one of the cleanest headphones I've ever heard myself, I never said all Senns are veiled just that a bunch of them I tried are. I can't agree about the HD 600 though I've had it for a while now, when I first put my HD 600 on my head, I found it very congested and veiled. Then I compared my HD 600 to a friends HD 650, the HD 650 was noticeably less veiled and clearer to my ears.

 

[MacedonianHero]

 
The HD 800 is one of the cleanest headphones I've ever heard myself, I never said all Senns are veiled just that a bunch of them I tried are. I can't agree about the HD 600 though I've had it for a while now, when I first put my HD 600 on my head, I found it very congested and veiled. Then I compared my HD 600 to a friends HD 650, the HD 650 was noticeably less veiled and clearer to my ears.

My comments were reflective of those who use the term "Sennheiser veil". Are the HD650s veiled? Sure, I'll play....are the HD600s? Nope...and most certainly not the HD800s. But with all three headphones, garbage in = garbage out. 

 

[Maxvla]

kman, I agree. Sorry, Peter, I disagree.

Back to Z7s...

 

[MacedonianHero]

kman, I agree. Sorry, Peter, I disagree.

You think there's such a thing of Sennheiser veil that should be generally used? 

 Or the part that the HD650s don't sound veiled? That's where this came from -->                       "

". Or garbage in doesn't equal garbage out? 

 
I am not a fan of generalizations...especially with Sennheiser as their headphones are all over map with regards to sound styles.

 

[Bill-P]

  Yea SOUND stage is nice, but I prefer body. My W1000X is a little Narrow but MAN is it deep! It does a great job of conveying weight and a real sense of tactility! 
 
Still though I shouldn't be judgeing the HD 800 till I've actually heard it 

Well, I've heard the HD800 multiple times. Out of a lot of setups.
 
The best I have heard is Anax-modded HD800 out of the Zana Deux. It was being fed by the Schiit Bifrost.
 
It sounded floaty and ethereal, with bass that was good enough. But it was still lacking that weight.

 

[TheBoss]

Who here is hopefully waiting for Sony to put the 70mm LCP+aluminum drivers to MDR MA900 chassis..... and call it MDR MA1000?
 
Based on the impressions here I think the new 70mm LCP/Aluminum is being hindered by closed type design...   driver of that needs a lot of breathing room!
 
70mm LCP+Aluminum needs MDR MA900 chassis.  Even better if Sony can make the whole MA900 frame all magnesium and drop the weight (sans cable) to just 190 grams.

 

[kman1211]

  My comments were reflective of those who use the term "Sennheiser veil". Are the HD650s veiled? Sure, I'll play....are the HD600s? Nope...and most certainly not the HD800s. But with all three headphones, garbage in = garbage out. 

 
This is on a variety of amps, cables, dacs, and songs. I doubt garbage-in and garbage-out really applies to this comparison, especially considering I found the HD 650 more revealing of the system than the HD 600, I found neither are as revealing as my K712 to me though. Maybe it's just my hearing and ear anatomy differences that make me find the HD 600 more veiled than the HD 650. I'm not saying I'm right or your wrong, it's just that to my ears the HD 600 is the more veiled of the two.