[pietcux]

Yes I know the answer,lol. If I want to change the sound or imaging, I can use different dacs, amps, daps, eq things or on my Sony WM1A go balanced and play with the DC PHASE Linearizer. All of this alters how I hear the music, that is played back. On every headphone that I own. But cables? To me they are a functional thing. Sometimes I purchase custom made cable, because I need a special length or termination. Then I take well made cables that don't brake the bank. I prefer Forzaaudioworks as the build quality is outstanding for the price. But they sound the same as the original cable, which is exactly what I want.

 

[cjfrbw]

"I don't object to expensive cables at all. I'm sure that they generally don't sound any worse than oxygen free copper."

 

[ctaxxxx]

Hi all you cable guys, is there any measurement out there that proves the usefulness of such expensive cables over the stock cables? I mean graphs and maybe waterfall diagrams? All what people tell who bought expensive cables is purely subjective and not backed up by facts. Or do you have real evidence?

Nothing that I'm familiar with, but I came from the same position as you did, so I'll share my experience. It was a bit of a money sink (around $600+ spent), but I decided to dabble in aftermarket cables since I figured, with the Z1R, I should be able to tell if cables alone make a difference or not.

I didn't go for anything too high end. Forza's Claire HPC (copper) and Lavricables Ultimate (silver), and what was supposed to be Norne Solvine (hybrid). Stock cable is SPC, so a different type of hybrid. These were my conclusions:

• Copper - The tonality was the most noticeable difference to me. Slightly smoother (less extension?), but nothing like switching to a tube amp or anything. Bass has a little more presence due to warmer top end. Still pretty subtle though. Not sure if it was worth it over stock. Maybe Draug 3 copper or Forza Noir would be?
• SPC Hybrid - The stock cable sounds a little leaner and brighter in comparison to the pure copper and silver options. But again, fairly subtle, except to the Draug Silver. Would have been interesting to hear how the Solvine compared.
• Silver -
  • Lavricables was a little more airier with a different midrange tonality than the copper. I kind of liked the Z1R with these. Too bad the cable is stiff...
  • Draug 3 Silver improvements sounded the most noticeable to me and felt like a true upgrade. The largest change I liked was the bass. It's hard to describe, but it sounded more weighty and dynamic. Same air as the Lavricables, but smoother highs like the pure copper. Because of the improved air and clarity(?), everything sounded a little larger too. Maybe because it became easier to perceive the room the recording took place.

Conclusion: If you want to go for a cable upgrade, I would say save up and go all in for a pure, quality silver cable. I'm selling my Forza and Lavricables because they didn't seem worth it in the end. I don't see myself selling the Draug 3 Silver though.

I got the Sony/Kimber later, but the reason was more for functionality rather than sound (10 ft long with locking connectors). Though I honestly wished I bought a longer Claire from Forza, because the Sony/Kimber is annoyingly stiff...

 

[music_man]

ctax, I concur with your findings. Really good silver the same sound just more of it or rather more pronounced. I fully agree as well, these should fare best with silver but ymmv. It is completely subjective. Nothing can measure them. Even if it is placebo it still makes a difference regardless so worth it to me. Plus just the fact no one takes a $300,000 stereo and uses Monster lol. Okay, now they will sue me too

 

[SHAMuuu]

Is that Kimber cable?

 

[buzzlulu]

What a great video thank you for that. In the history of this thread that is the first time I've seen anyone post this video. Where did you find it and when was it done? Was it released at the Z1R introduction or perhaps now as an additional marketing push.

Yes that is a Kimber cable - it is the Sony Kimber collaboration cable made in China. It is easy to tell as you can see from the number of braided stands and it's stiffness that it is not the Axios. It makes perfect sense too show it as it is the upgrade cable that Sony sells for the headphone.

I have both the collaboration cable and the Kimber Axios cable. There is quite a large difference between the two - in construction, build quality, and finally sound.

It is also interesting that Sony ships the Z1R with a silver coated copper cable however the Kimber collaboration cable, which they consider to be an upgrade, is made from pure copper. So I guess Sony wants to see a pure copper cable on this headphone in it's upgraded form over stock?

 

[SHAMuuu]

What a great video thank you for that. In the history of this thread that is the first time I've seen anyone post this video. Where did you find it and when was it done? Was it released at the Z1R introduction or perhaps now as an additional marketing push.

Yes that is a Kimber cable - it is the Sony Kimber collaboration cable made in China. It is easy to tell as you can see from the number of braided stands and it's stiffness that it is not the Axios. It makes perfect sense too show it as it is the upgrade cable that Sony sells for the headphone.

I have both the collaboration cable and the Kimber Axios cable. There is quite a large difference between the two - in construction, build quality, and finally sound.

It is also interesting that Sony ships the Z1R with a silver coated copper cable however the Kimber collaboration cable, which they consider to be an upgrade, is made from pure copper. So I guess Sony wants to see a pure copper cable on this headphone in it's upgraded form over stock?

It was on "Sony - Stories" channel on youtube. This was another one on there: "

The video above (w/ Naotaka) seems to be fairly new (Nov / 2017).

 

[bytor33]

It is also interesting that Sony ships the Z1R with a silver coated copper cable however the Kimber collaboration cable, which they consider to be an upgrade, is made from pure copper. So I guess Sony wants to see a pure copper cable on this headphone in it's upgraded form over stock?

They probably went with silver coated copper to make the highs more sparkly for initial listening to grab people's attention. And I don't see the Kimber cable is listed as an official upgrade for the Z1R, it's still just listed as a product for the Z7.

I think a lot of it just depends on your source and personal preference though as to what's "better". For example I like the stock cable with the Mojo, but prefer the Kimber with the Hugo 2 since the highs aren't as rolled off as the Mojo.

 

[music_man]

Silver clad copper is usually the cheapest junk. You know I do not really see 16 wires on my Axios AG but it is difficult to count with the braid. Custom companies will give you more silver content if you so wish but it usually costs a fortune. With my "scrap" cable it is so thick I could only fit one conductor per pole into the jacks. That is a ton of silver though and 10% gold plus their stiffener ETC. I doubt many would like it. It is as rigid as a gas pipe. I said that already. It is 9AWG per conductor of solid core cable in air tubes of Teflon. with an added carbon fiber stiffener and Three jackets. If you do not move at all it is okay but even heavy on the chest.. The Axios wins hands down in functionality if not sound. I actually had to strip it and use heat wrap to even fit it. That kind of stuff may sound good but hardly practical.

Many top studios use Kimber. My studio is wired with Kubala Sosna. Just a preference. We are getting into the cutting edge of subjectivity here. This absolutely does not belong in the sound science forum! They will laugh us out of there. I personally swear it makes a difference. I was a sound and electronic Engineer for over 40 years and now run my own state of the art studio. Most with my background would shun this but not I. I am a believer.

If you can get it the Axios is your best bet. The sony Axios on the other hand no way worth $300+ IMO. If you are on a real budget and want good just get some Kimber 4TC or 8TC bulk, Cardas solder and put on some Furutech or Oyaide connectors. You will be close to the Axios I imagine for less than $500.

I truly feel a lot of silver balances out an already stellar headphone very nicely. You then have something very special to behold. I say the sound will go from outstanding to out of this stratosphere. Again, it is not an HD800S if that is what you are looking for. Kind of the opposite direction. Like LO-FI goodness that just draws you in. It is just so round, liquid the PRAT in unheard of. A technical head phone it is not but you can still pick out nuances. Just not as pronounced like showing it to you. Instead a surprise. Where you listen to the same track 50 times to really "get" it. Enjoying it each and every time. It is very odd and I cannot put a finger on it but they really did something unique here.

BTW, if you want a good cheap amp/dac look no further than a used Teacs UD-501 or 503. It will drive these good for like $300-$400. My top recommendation. I tried it myself. No, it is not a super high end system that will bring out more of their great attributes but it is very good for way less than the Sony ES. If they do not include a power cord I suggest you get a good one, $50-$100 on Ebay. I would have good cables and power conditioning on everything if you are able to. A must on high end stuff. It is like if you are stuck at 9 this brings you right up to 10. Of course there are both sides to the argument but I have a lot of experience with what sounds like what. That is why I knew these needed silver before even starting. it is like how a Doctor knows which medicine you need. In this case the best medicine is probably going to be silver for most folks. Power cords I stick with copper solely for safety. There is such a thing as too much conduction there.

That reminds me, I do not think I have tried them with DAVE yet. Interestingly he is only SE. That says something right there.

 

[cjfrbw]

Yup, I think music_man nailed it. the Z1R is the master of PRAT, the way the music dissolves, attacks, pans and flows is so seductive. My Stax rig is still a better "technical" headphone in terms of detail, imaging, and the Stax even has bass slam and tone, but I can't say that it is more enjoyable than Z1R.

 

[sweetben]

Yup, I think music_man nailed it. the Z1R is the master of PRAT, the way the music dissolves, attacks, pans and flows is so seductive. My Stax rig is still a better "technical" headphone in terms of detail, imaging, and the Stax even has bass slam and tone, but I can't say that it is more enjoyable than Z1R.

Maybe that's why I think the Naim DAC V1 & Z1R combo is so strong. Naim has always been know for PRAT. It's double PRAT!

 

[nordkapp]

I wonder when we'll see guys wiring headphones with electrical grid cable? Don't laugh, I'm serious.

 

[nc8000]

I wonder when we'll see guys wiring headphones with electrical grid cable? Don't laugh, I'm serious.

That’s what I used. Solid core installation cable

 

[pietcux]

That’s what I used. Solid core installation cable

Flexibility of headphone cables is strongly overrated.

 

[nordkapp]

I'm going to call NASA and see what they've got on hand. Lol.