[music_man]

Wow that is big. I have driver envy lol.

 

[ubs28]

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-cable-measurements-part-one
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-cable-measurements-wrap

The danger of relying on measurements is that measurements cannot measure everything.

Where are measurements of soundstage or clarity (at the same frequency response) for example?.

But I agree with Tyll that it is icing on the cake. I would never buy a 3rd party cable for the HD 650 for example as there are too many things fundamentally wrong with that headphone, that a cable upgrade is not worth it (not a suprise that it is only $320). Might as well buy a new headphone that fixes most of the weaknesses or a new DAC.

 

[bouscadie]

The measurements are machines, the music is human. Make your choice ...

 

[pietcux]

The measurements are machines, the music is human. Make your choice ...

And cables are metal plus some plastic. There are small differences, that is true, but different headphones or other gear makes much more of a diffence.
Did I mention that I love the sond of the Z1R? I really do.

 

[raybies]

Did I mention that I love the sond of the Z1R?

Yup, but have you tried pimpin your headphones with some cables like the Kimber Axios w/ very flexible OFHC copper wire "hand" braid comprised of 16 FEP insulated 24 gauge stranded conductors? they subjectively bring out the mids, and tame the highs

 

[pietcux]

Yup, but have you tried pimpin your headphones with some cables like the Kimber Axios w/ very flexible OFHC copper wire "hand" braid comprised of 16 FEP insulated 24 gauge stranded conductors? they subjectively bring out the mids, and tame the highs

Why?

 

[talmadge]

I love the sound of my Z1R's as well. i'm very sensitive to high frequencies so these or the audioquest nighthawk's (for a cheaper option) work well for me.

 

[nordkapp]

I love the sound of my Z1R's as well. i'm very sensitive to high frequencies so these or the audioquest nighthawk's (for a cheaper option) work well for me.

What are you running them with? Just curious....

 

[talmadge]

ifi micro iDSD.
Also have the Darkvoice 336 SE coming next week.

 

[music_man]

Those will certainly play them well. It seems the higher you go the more you will get out of these. I can't try the super high end stuff because I have no provision for headphones down there lol. Although The best amp I found out of what I have is old and not incredibly expensive. The runner up was the P-750U. Other is the same money. So maybe expensive who you ask. I do feel they prefer SE and SS.

Don't get me wrong. You can enjoy them on an IPhone but you can make them better too. The more important thing is first you have the headphones

 

[Sp12er3]

And cables are metal plus some plastic. There are small differences, that is true, but different headphones or other gear makes much more of a diffence.
Did I mention that I love the sond of the Z1R? I really do.

My opinion of cable upgrade is for better ease of use, aesthetic (which I must say, am quite perceptible of) and as the method to tune the sound of a headphone in the most minute of modification.
It's for people that Already love the look, fell and certainly sound of a headphone out of a certain source they have, and cable upgrade is that strawberry on top.
The strawberry in the grand scheme of things doesnt change anything about the cake for anyone but the most fussy of individuals with enought free time and money to find just the right breed and what slice of strawberry that look perfect sitting on top of that cake.

Its a futile exercise of "high cost with the tiniest return possible" prospect when we see other people do it, but for them it's something that's worth pursuing, I guess?

Edit for typos

 

[pietcux]

My opinion of cable upgrade is for better ease of use, aesthetic (which I must say, am quite perceptible of) and as the method to tune the sound of a headphone in the most minute of modification.
It's for people that Already love the look, fell and certainly sound of a headphone out of a certain source they have, and cable upgrade is that strawberry on top.
The strawberry in the grand scheme of things doesnt change anything about the cake for anyone but the most fussy of individuals with enought free time and money to find just the right breed and what slice of strawberry that look perfect sitting on top of that cake.

Its a futile exercise of "high cost with the tiniest return possible" prospect when we see other people do it, but for them it's something that's worth pursuing, I guess?

Edit for typos

I agree 100%

 

[music_man]

I find it funny, the many heated debates. No one is forcing anyone else. If you do not subscribe to the idea move on....

I personally feel that at the point where everything else is just right it makes a difference in "tuning" to the degree of 5% to 10% difference and can in fact even detract. Without knowing exactly what to do you could just be wasting time and money. Just because one was no good does not mean another will not be an improvement. Very few people will go through 20 expensive cables looking for a 5% improvement in their sound. Furthermore I would not go get a cable that is more expensive than your DAC for instance. Being an Engineer I have a pretty good idea of what will do what but I understand most people do not possess this knowledge unfortunately. No fear though because I think if you just get like the Axios Ag already have a good DAC and amp you should at least be pleased. Pleased for that much money for the difference it makes? up to you. At least I got everyone started here with a heads up you are probably going to want AG with these headphones. Of course YMMV. some may prefer copper. The only real downside for many is going to be the cost. The Crystal might be a tad better than the Axios due to much more silver content but I do not honestly expect anyone to go buy that for $3,000 headphones. then again if you have a $20,000 DAC and $10,000 amp who knows. Even I would not. I said like 100 times I did not actually pay anything for any of that cable. Some might prefer the Axios anyways. Or the stock cable for that matter. who am I to say?

All the arguments are fruitless because each individual is entitled to their own opinion and everyone's opinion matters. so it just becomes a big mess every time. This is not really something you can direct people on what to buy. I never get into arguments regarding this because they simply have no basis. This, I will say is entirely up to each individual and simply stop there. Yes, I did make the recommendation of AG whatever it may be because that actually goes to science. Knowing these headphones and knowing what has what effect on them I feel I can make such a statement. However it is certainly not written in stone. Everyone has to do what they personally enjoy. I cannot tell anyone anything in regard to that. The problem always arises when other people go ahead and do so. I just refrain from engaging in such discussions. Bottom line it is such a small difference it is just entirely up to you. I would say it makes sense to put that money into better electronics first and foremost if you do not already have some good stuff. I do not mean tens of thousands either. There is nice stuff at most price points really. Put more into these they will give back but I understand not everyone can. The nice thing about these is they still sound good out of an IPhone anyways. Of course it is a far cry from serious equipment but it is a good start. Most headphones will not provide this. All in all the headphones themselves provide for most of their own sound signature. I just told a dirty little secret. If you can hear smearing, placement and things like that then you do want some good electronics but usually the cable will come last. I got a few cables quickly because I knew where I was going with these but not everyone does. Which is also fine.

 

[pietcux]

I find it funny, the many heated debates. No one is forcing anyone else. If you do not subscribe to the idea move on....

I personally feel that at the point where everything else is just right it makes a difference in "tuning" to the degree of 5% to 10% difference and can in fact even detract. Without knowing exactly what to do you could just be wasting time and money. Just because one was no good does not mean another will not be an improvement. Very few people will go through 20 expensive cables looking for a 5% improvement in their sound. Furthermore I would not go get a cable that is more expensive than your DAC for instance. Being an Engineer I have a pretty good idea of what will do what but I understand most people do not possess this knowledge unfortunately. No fear though because I think if you just get like the Axios Ag already have a good DAC and amp you should at least be pleased. Pleased for that much money for the difference it makes? up to you. At least I got everyone started here with a heads up you are probably going to want AG with these headphones. Of course YMMV. some may prefer copper. The only real downside for many is going to be the cost. The Crystal might be a tad better than the Axios due to much more silver content but I do not honestly expect anyone to go buy that for $3,000 headphones. then again if you have a $20,000 DAC and $10,000 amp who knows. Even I would not. I said like 100 times I did not actually pay anything for any of that cable. Some might prefer the Axios anyways. Or the stock cable for that matter. who am I to say?

All the arguments are fruitless because each individual is entitled to their own opinion and everyone's opinion matters. so it just becomes a big mess every time. This is not really something you can direct people on what to buy. I never get into arguments regarding this because they simply have no basis. This, I will say is entirely up to each individual and simply stop there. Yes, I did make the recommendation of AG whatever it may be because that actually goes to science. Knowing these headphones and knowing what has what effect on them I feel I can make such a statement. However it is certainly not written in stone. Everyone has to do what they personally enjoy. I cannot tell anyone anything in regard to that. The problem always arises when other people go ahead and do so. I just refrain from engaging in such discussions. Bottom line it is such a small difference it is just entirely up to you. I would say it makes sense to put that money into better electronics first and foremost if you do not already have some good stuff. I do not mean tens of thousands either. There is nice stuff at most price points really. Put more into these they will give back but I understand not everyone can. The nice thing about these is they still sound good out of an IPhone anyways. Of course it is a far cry from serious equipment but it is a good start. Most headphones will not provide this. All in all the headphones themselves provide for most of their own sound signature. I just told a dirty little secret. If you can hear smearing, placement and things like that then you do want some good electronics but usually the cable will come last. I got a few cables quickly because I knew where I was going with these but not everyone does. Which is also fine.

This is what counts my friend:

In my office right now and using the best portable sound that I ever had.

 

[macdane]

All the arguments are fruitless because each individual is entitled to their own opinion and everyone's opinion matters. so it just becomes a big mess every time. This is not really something you can direct people on what to buy. I never get into arguments regarding this because they simply have no basis.

This. Back when I sold hifi for a living, of course I needed to sell stuff to stay in business, and I personally found that cables were often worth paying attention to. But more than anything, I didn't want to be perceived as a snake-oil salesman. So I took a very low-pressure approach of sending cables home with people to evaluate in their systems and at their pace. My guiding principle was that if you THINK you hear a difference, then for all practical purposes you DO hear a difference. If someone had the scratch to upgrade their speaker cables from a $100 pair to a $1000 pair — and they perceived that the sound justified it — more power to him. The biggest difference today is a matter of scale ... $1000 cables are now thought of as budget accessories in some circles.

But the point remains: leave it to the listener to decide.