[nc8000]

However you looked at it, it renders the player very restricted. I had the WM1A/Z, and frankly they paired horrendously with most headphones except especially easy ones. Even the Sony headphones sounded bad with the Sony DAPs.

250mw is only for hardcore Sony lovers. But for the rest of us, it's a bit of a joke especially given recent releases from FiiO (3w in the M17) plus impending releases from Cayin.

1Z pairs just fine with both Z1R to me and I fully enjoy the pairings but they do improve a little with more power (though I still don’t know if it is just the more power that makes a difference or if it is a different tuning of the more powerfull device)

 

[Nostoi]

1Z pairs just fine with both Z1R to me and I fully enjoy the pairings but they do improve a little with more power (though I still don’t know if it is just the more power that makes a difference or if it is a different tuning of the more powerfull device)

For me, the Z1R and 1Z was underwhelming at best - the bass was flabby and lacking control, the mids were uneven, and the top end was piercing. The headphone lacked dynamics overall and technical merits were soft and lacking. Wasn't as bad as the MDR-Z7M2, I grant you that - that was even worse. Both of these headphones can scale up and sound decent being driven properly, so I'm assigning blame here to the source.

When I had these DAPs, I did my best to generate more power by stacking them with various portable amps (CV5, BA300s, Fostex HP-V1, etc), but because of the lack of line-out it never sounded coherent. Given Sony are using the same tech here, I suspect they'll continue with the lack of a line-out.

 

[rocketron]

Do the new players have a line out feature?

 

[Duncan]

Android, not for me in Europe then, not after my experiences with the Z and ZX players.

That was quick and easy for me.

 

[Vamp898]

But why, $4200 for a DAP that only outputs 250mw isn't compelling...?!

https://wooaudio.com/sources/sony-nw1zm2

Because of the sound quality.

 

[INGRAMLI]

IMHO there is nothing wrong with a 250mW output for a high end DAP. The earphone IS the problem, NOT the DAP. If that earphone have problem to perform reasonably well at 250mW input, the chance is you are unlikely to enjoy its full potential while maintaining portability with other sources anyway.

Sorry but I dont buy the idea of "other chinese high end DAP is a 1000mW powerhouse" argument, you are not going to get >15 hours (at most 10 hours, if barely) from those bricks (they usually weight nearly a pound already), adding up an external power brick isnt doing any favor on their portability, if you want those hefty setups, I guess Sony is just not for you, I afraid.

 

[proedros]

i wish i had 1500$ so i could buy a used 1z off the FS threads here

i paid 900$ for my wm1a and i should be around 8000 hours of use (and enjoyment)

talk about money well spent

 

[Vamp898]

For me, the Z1R and 1Z was underwhelming at best - the bass was flabby and lacking control, the mids were uneven, and the top end was piercing. The headphone lacked dynamics overall and technical merits were soft and lacking. Wasn't as bad as the MDR-Z7M2, I grant you that - that was even worse. Both of these headphones can scale up and sound decent being driven properly, so I'm assigning blame here to the source.

When I had these DAPs, I did my best to generate more power by stacking them with various portable amps (CV5, BA300s, Fostex HP-V1, etc), but because of the lack of line-out it never sounded coherent. Given Sony are using the same tech here, I suspect they'll continue with the lack of a line-out.

I don't get why this comes up again and again, even if several people disproved it as wrong so many times.

That is totally unrelated to its output power. If you don't like the Sony sound, you don't like the Sony sound. Its a matter of taste but its unrelated to output power.

If you prefer other devices which sound very different from the Sony Sound (but also happen to have higher output power), they sound different because they sound different, not because they have higher output power.

Take the M17 vs WM1Z as an example. 3000mW @ 32Ω vs. 125mW @ 32Ω
M17: Boring, flat, lifeless. Makes acoustic life recordings sound like Monitor Recordings.
WM1Z: Exciting, unique and fun sound that makes acoustic sound like you're actually there in the concert hall

The M17 does have 24 times the power and sounds extremely boring, especially when paired with the MDR-Z1R. The MDR-Z1R+M17 is not a good combo. The M17 completely fails to make the Z1R shine. The HD800S or HD820 are much better matches for the M17 than the Z1R. I would not get this headphone owning that DAP.

You see? With 1/24 of the power you can make the Headphone sound better.... if you like the sound. Some people don't like the Sony sound and that is absolutely okay. Its a matter of taste and not everyone is into this exciting/life like sound. I personally don't understand why, maybe some people just hate how instruments sound in real life, but thats a different topic. It is no use to discuss about taste.

But, and that is the important thing here, this is totally unrelated to output power. The WM1Z would not sound any different with 2500mW.

M11 Plus LTD --> 588mW
M17 --> 3000mW

They sound almost the same. In a blind test, its pretty much impossible to pick them apart.

You see, your issue isn't power, your issue is that you don't like its sound (no matter the power).

 

[gLer]

I don't get why this comes up again and again, even if several people disproved it as wrong so many times.

That is totally unrelated to its output power. If you don't like the Sony sound, you don't like the Sony sound. Its a matter of taste but its unrelated to output power.

If you prefer other devices which sound very different from the Sony Sound (but also happen to have higher output power), they sound different because they sound different, not because they have higher output power.

Take the M17 vs WM1Z as an example. 3000mW @ 32Ω vs. 125mW @ 32Ω
M17: Boring, flat, lifeless. Makes acoustic life recordings sound like Monitor Recordings.
WM1Z: Exciting, unique and fun sound that makes acoustic sound like you're actually there in the concert hall

The M17 does have 24 times the power and sounds extremely boring, especially when paired with the MDR-Z1R. The MDR-Z1R+M17 is not a good combo. The M17 completely fails to make the Z1R shine. The HD800S or HD820 are much better matches for the M17 than the Z1R. I would not get this headphone owning that DAP.

You see? With 1/24 of the power you can make the Headphone sound better.... if you like the sound. Some people don't like the Sony sound and that is absolutely okay. Its a matter of taste and not everyone is into this exciting/life like sound.

But, and that is the important thing here, this is totally unrelated to output power. The WM1Z would not sound any different with 2500mW.

M11 Plus LTD --> 588mW
M17 --> 3000mW

They sound almost the same. In a blind test, its pretty much impossible to pick them apart.

You see, your issue isn't power, your issue is that you don't like its sound (no matter the power).

I agree with this, as a recent newcomer to the 'Sony sound' with IER/MDR-Z1R. For me, I would only consider one of the Signature Series Walkmans to drive Sony gear. That's what the designers use to test and tune them, after all.

If you're into a wide variety of third-party IEMs and headphones, Walkmans are likely not a good fit for you. To each his own, as they say. (And if you have found a good pairing with your own gear and a Walkman, bonus!).

 

[Nostoi]

I don't get why this comes up again and again, even if several people disproved it as wrong so many times.

That is totally unrelated to its output power. If you don't like the Sony sound, you don't like the Sony sound. Its a matter of taste but its unrelated to output power.

If you prefer other devices which sound very different from the Sony Sound (but also happen to have higher output power), they sound different because they sound different, not because they have higher output power.

Take the M17 vs WM1Z as an example. 3000mW @ 32Ω vs. 125mW @ 32Ω
M17: Boring, flat, lifeless. Makes acoustic life recordings sound like Monitor Recordings.
WM1Z: Exciting, unique and fun sound that makes acoustic sound like you're actually there in the concert hall

The M17 does have 24 times the power and sounds extremely boring, especially when paired with the MDR-Z1R. The MDR-Z1R+M17 is not a good combo. The M17 completely fails to make the Z1R shine. The HD800S or HD820 are much better matches for the M17 than the Z1R. I would not get this headphone owning that DAP.

You see? With 1/24 of the power you can make the Headphone sound better.... if you like the sound. Some people don't like the Sony sound and that is absolutely okay. Its a matter of taste and not everyone is into this exciting/life like sound.

But, and that is the important thing here, this is totally unrelated to output power. The WM1Z would not sound any different with 2500mW.

M11 Plus LTD --> 588mW
M17 --> 3000mW

They sound almost the same. In a blind test, its pretty much impossible to pick them apart.

You see, your issue isn't power, your issue is that you don't like its sound (no matter the power).

Respectfully, I'm the middle of a complex lunch so can't reply to this as whole; suffice to say, I do like the Sony tuning but basically disagree with the rest of what you say.

Here's a throwback to the Sony glory days; my WM-D6C with an actual/genuine line-out driving the ZMF VC via the Cayin C9. Something to aim for with the next iteration!

 

[blazinblazin]

With 40hrs battery life. Your player probably had less battery cycle and last longer before you run into battery problems in long run.
No DAP can beat its battery life.

 

[horatiu]

These days people have weird expectations.
They want a portable device to be able to drive power hungry full size headphones.

Personally I think Sony did the right thing - focus on sound quality for IEMs, not sheer output power that has serious detrimental impact on heat and battery life.
Lately we've seen too many compromised DAPs that try to be desktop units.

 

[Loftprojection]

Old 1A/1Z already have a sound quality that still today competes very positively with all the newest offerings from others, it’s just a matter of musical taste.

So to me it is the perfect situation if 1A/1Z M2 have a tiny upgrade in sound while keeping the same sound signature and add AppleMusic/Tidal/etc streaming capability with the same sound quality.

Those are DAPs, not desktop amp/dac.

 

[Vamp898]

Respectfully, I'm the middle of a complex lunch so can't reply to this as whole; suffice to say, I do like the Sony tuning but basically disagree with the rest of what you say.

Here's a throwback to the Sony glory days; my WM-D6C with an actual/genuine line-out driving the ZMF VC via the Cayin C9. Something to aim for with the next iteration!

The Sony glory days are right now, in this very moment.

"ZMF VC via the Cayin C9"

You see. You like the Sound of the Cayin C9 which doesn't sound even remotely close to the WM1Z. Its a completely different sound signature and it is a completely different technology too. Its Tube vs Digital Amps, they could not be any more different/distant from each other. I personally don't consider ZMF Headphones to be good either but that is, again, a matter of taste. My personal taste and not a fact or general statement. I do understand why people like them and that's fine, why not.

But i prefer the sound of the MDR-Z1R, the reason why i bought it and own it. For what i am looking for in sound, after testing several headphones from almost all brands, the MDR-Z1R is, to me and my taste, the best. And the WM1Z pushes (beside the TA-ZH1ES which is not portable, so different story) the most out of the MDR-Z1R of what i like about it.

I know some other people who also use the USB Out or the 4,4mm to connact portable tube amps to "refine" the sound or to change it to their liking and thats absolutely fine.

But i personally would say, if someone doesn't like the Sound straight out of the WM1Z, there is no real reason to buy it.

 

[gerelmx1986]

Respectfully, I'm the middle of a complex lunch so can't reply to this as whole; suffice to say, I do like the Sony tuning but basically disagree with the rest of what you say.

Here's a throwback to the Sony glory days; my WM-D6C with an actual/genuine line-out driving the ZMF VC via the Cayin C9. Something to aim for with the next iteration!

A cassette walkman… LOL outdated as a