[OverlordRush]

I'm gonna get a chance soon to compare the Anole VX to the IER-Z1R... I bought a 2nd hand one on the FS section here. I may have to turn loose of the one I like less unfortunately... Damn budget (or lack thereof).

just keep both

 

[MarkF786]

I’ve got the Z1R arriving tomorrow from Amazon; I tried canceling the order earlier in the week due to some of the feedback so far, but it was too late.

I’ll see how they compare with my current top IEMs (Solaris, Andromeda, EX1000, Xelento, and SE846) before deciding if to keep them or not.

I’m kinda mixed in emotion, excited to try them but not excited about the cost if they’re not any better than my current IEMs.

P.S. I’ll be driving them with an iPhone dongle, along with various other portable amps (Q5, Mojo, ES100, BTR3, DFR, etc). I tend to prefer the dongle or BT amps for portability.

 

[marcussmj]

I’ve got the Z1R arriving tomorrow from Amazon; I tried canceling the order earlier in the week due to some of the feedback so far, but it was too late.

I’ll see how they compare with my current top IEMs (Solaris, Andromeda, EX1000, Xelento, and SE846) before deciding if to keep them or not.

I’m kinda mixed in emotion, excited to try them but not excited about the cost if they’re not any better than my current IEMs.

P.S. I’ll be driving them with an iPhone dongle, along with various other portable amps (Q5, Mojo, ES100, BTR3, DFR, etc). I tend to prefer the dongle or BT amps for portability.

I actually like them more than the Xelento especially how the upper mids are presented but in terms of technical performance I don't think the Xelento is a slouch.

 

[rutter]

I’ve got the Z1R arriving tomorrow from Amazon; I tried canceling the order earlier in the week due to some of the feedback so far, but it was too late.

I’ll see how they compare with my current top IEMs (Solaris, Andromeda, EX1000, Xelento, and SE846) before deciding if to keep them or not.

I’m kinda mixed in emotion, excited to try them but not excited about the cost if they’re not any better than my current IEMs.

P.S. I’ll be driving them with an iPhone dongle, along with various other portable amps (Q5, Mojo, ES100, BTR3, DFR, etc). I tend to prefer the dongle or BT amps for portability.

I don't know what you've been reading but they'll definitely be better in aspects than the three iems I recognize, both Campfire Audio and the SE846. From those portable amps I recognize the Mojo and I think it will complement the IER-Z1R well. The thing you're lacking is 4.4mm balanced, which is another reason why I would recommend a dap. Then again, Chord hates doing balanced and has a good reputation so I'm not sure. But the Campfire Audio guy himself has recommended balanced for the Solaris, for instance. It is supposed to have some appreciable benefit aside from greater power output. I expect the Mojo at high gain to sound much better than the iPhone dongle.

https://chordelectronics.co.uk/product/mojo/

• Output Power @ 1kHz – 600Ω 35mW
• Output Power @ 1kHz – 8Ω 720mW
• Output Impedance: 75mOhms

Well, I don't know. 720mW only at 8 ohms. TSAVAlan did say that people he knew liked using the Mojo with some iems for power-related bass improvement, but I don't know. The output impedance looks strange too.

 

[womwomwom]

What’s strange about the output impedance? 75mOhms is 0.075 ohms, a completely reasonable number.

Also, 750mw into 8 ohms is a lot of power. The IER-Z1R only needs ~50mW to to hit 120dB loudness. How much power do you believe it needs for peak performance?

 

[rutter]

75 milliohms, cool. I said it looked strange. Even more unconventional from what I've seen than providing one power output number into 8 ohms. As for power, let's see how many times I need to quote these posts.

Not exactly true. Max power certainly does matter. You seem to have forgotten to take into account the volume peaks of a recording, especially for recordings with a large dynamic range like classic music. To have a life-like and distortion free reproduction, simply having enough power to reach the average sound level (103dB in your case) is not enough. Instead, you will need much more power, since to achieve best sound quality you need to reproduce these peaks without distortion. This is the exact reason why maximum power output DOES matter, even though, as you correctly state, no one actually listens at max volume (unless they want permanent hearing damage).

A case in point-- HD650. According to solderdude's calculations, for about 80db average levels you only need 0.2V (we're using volts here since hd650 are almost always voltage limited, not current limited), power even an iPhone can provide. Yet if you were to reproduce the 120dB peaks, you will need 24V, which is something the majority of amps cannot do. To quote solderdude, '120dB may seem a lot and painful but really isn't due to these peaks being very short and will just sound "dynamic".' So by your logic, as long as the iPhone can supply enough power to drive the cans to their average sound level, max power is then irrelevant, which as anyone who has owned a HD650 can tell you, is certainly NOT true.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-ier-z1r-new-flagship.886120/page-158#post-14921229

You aren't going to damage them unless you drive them to loud of a volume, which would also damage your hearing. The output from the AMP is just that, what it can output but that doesn't mean you are going to use anywhere that much but for loud transients or complex ones, the "headroom" of a more powerful amp helps to keep anything from compressing and improve dynamics. You could power them with a 100 watt amp, as long as you used only enough power for the headphones. Of course you would use a 100 watt amp but it is an example. Like having a 5 gallon container of water. You may take only a cupful and that will fit your needs but it doesn't mean you are going to try and drink 5 gallons all at once. :^)

Under powering, especially with speakers, can cause distortion and that is were the real damage to the driver can come in. I will always take way more power in reserve, staying in the cleaner power curve of the amp, than too little or right near the limit of the amp.

I believe the IER-Z1R needs enough power for peak performance to not sound like what I heard through the ZX300 and to sound like what I hear through the DX228. Is this clear enough for you to understand?

 

[womwomwom]

The person you’re quoting is using the Sennheiser HD600 as an example. It is a 300 ohm headphone. He is correct that certain portable devices may struggle as portable devices are (generally) voltage limited.

But I don’t see how any of that it relevant when discussing low impedance loads like the IER-Z1R (40 ohms). The Chord Mojo can output 400mw @ 33 ohms before clipping from the top of my head. That’s well above the 50mw requirement for the IER-Z1R to reach 120dB loads.

Assuming an average listening volume of 85dB and your audio content containing +30dB peaks (that’s being extremely generous), the Chord Mojo should clearly have zero problems outputting the required amount of power.

I listen to my speakers at around 75-80dB so 85dB is actually very loud to me. So no, I don’t understand what you mean. As you are someone who has done more experimentation with the IER-Z1R than anyone else, what is the idea power output or does it scale infinitely?

As of right now, I seriously do not think the ZX300’s power the problem here. You’re likely finding issues with the Sony house sound. I do agree that the bass is pretty soft from the ZX300, which may give the impression of insufficient power.

 

[rutter]

I took that as a mere illustration. How do you figure the Mojo outputs 400mw into 33 ohms when it outputs 720mw into 8 ohms? If 50mw at 40 ohms is all the IER-Z1R requires for its highest peaks then perhaps even the ZX300's 200mw at 16 ohms translates to enough at 40 ohms. Yet when I used the Fiio A5 that outputs 800mw into 32 ohms and the Magni I heard a positive effect. On the iBasso DX220 with amp8 which I think outputs 1.2W into 32 ohms balanced I get satisfying sound. On the ZX300 balanced I needed to heavily boost "middle" for vocals, imaging, detail, and soundstage. Nonetheless the sound was probably less full, bass less impressive. With the DX228 I don't need to use EQ. I get expressive, relatively balanced, present and engaging sound. I can look up power output for amp1mk2 and try to consider how sound changes may be related but from what I recall even single-ended while the soundstage suffered I thought the tone of the IER-Z1R was relatively balanced, even a little clearer and perhaps a little improved in mids and treble vs amp8 (at least relative to the state of amp8 at the time). I may have neglected this. The reviewer I quoted on the last page thought that the IER-Z1R might be able to scale beyond what the WM1Z outputs. It's unclear as to why considering he brought volume up. Here it is:

https://headfonics.com/2018/08/sony-expand-their-one-signature-sound-series/

Brief Impressions
The Z1R is not massively efficient, certainly needs more power than IEMs like the Andromeda and SE846. I presume that will be largely down to the big 12mm dynamic driver. On my own NW-WM1Z, I was hitting about 80 in low gain, possibly even higher. I suspect it can scale a bit more with even more output power from a small portable amp.

My impressions of the ZX300 with the IER-Z1R had nothing to do with an intended house sound. The bass was the most present part, everything beyond it sounded off to me. It was not a tuning issue, it was a low to mid-fi issue. It was simply wrong. My unspecified idea of power output is based mostly on experience. The ZX300 sounded plainly wrong, out of desperation I plugged the IER-Z1R into the only other amplifiers I had. When the sound was affected positively I was surprised and to me the only explanation could be power output due to these cheap amps having to be inferior in quality (my logic). I then recalled having seen another claim that even the WM1Z was insufficient for the IER-Z1R, which I had dismissed at the time. But then I found the power output numbers of all three Sony daps and they are all under 300 mw into 16 ohms I believe. Given what I was trying these iems with, and then with my experience with the DX228, and TSAVAlan mentioning that the IER-Z1R sounded very good out of the DMP-1Z or whatever that $8k Sony "dap" is called which according to him outputs 1.5W into whatever impedance, I came to the tentative conclusion that say up to 1.5W and with using the volume control like a normal person you'd be good. Obviously that leaves the bottom boundary uncertain, which is crucial. I also don't know the specifics of how I should be calculating a minimum power output for maximum dynamism and zero compression or whatever so I adopted the attitude whatever that number is, unless someone enlightens us and correctly so at that, it's high enough that say being safe rather than sorry you aim for a power output of a Hiby R6 Pro. I was even concerned 500mw into 32 ohms may be insufficient. Just crudely guesstimating based on experience, was open to knowledgeable interjection rather than dumb quips about nuclear power sources and other things that didn't further the discussion.

What I should do is put back amp1mk2 and listen single-ended, granted I can actually find its power output. Will probably do it at some point.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I'm gonna get a chance soon to compare the Anole VX to the IER-Z1R... I bought a 2nd hand one on the FS section here. I may have to turn loose of the one I like less unfortunately... Damn budget (or lack thereof).

It will be nice to hear your impressions with the 1A combo. Though I believe there will not be a bunch owning both the IER-Z1R and qdc VX together. They may end up being complementary so.....maybe so?

Are you running the VX balanced with the 1A?

Have not heard the VX but have heard much of the qdc line. It’s a battle of flagships though...... so it’s exciting......as I would guess they approach things from two opposite directions.

Still my overall guess is the two IEM will end up being appreciated by two distinctly different groups, with no one group being right or wrong, and neither IEM being better or worse; just simply signatures preference in the end.

 

[rutter]

I'm listening to Speechless by Lady Gaga, going with the theme of being more likely to listen to songs I wouldn't normally due to lack of engagement with worse "equipment", and I can hear differences between different kind of drums. One drum in particular I'm not used to hearing in other songs, or perhaps I hadn't heard it clearly enough, I'm enjoying the novelty of. It's almost like a very quickly disappearing one, maybe a transient of sort, that the IER-Z1R through the DX228 captures. It's a muted, snappy sound, an entirely stretched out cloth or maybe plastic sound, relatively low-key. It's neat that it sounds sufficiently real to pick up. Her voice comes across well too.

I briefly tried a different ROM/software for the DX220 and while it was less clean and reduced bass it increased separation and soundstage width. This makes me realize, on the other hand, that the IER-Z1R is perhaps kind of compressed horizontally. I think I'm starting to hear some of the remarkable clarity and detail Redcarmoose has been talking about, and while the IER-Z1R's soundstage isn't flat (like I thought the Solaris' was) its width could be significantly better. Or perhaps even the strong bass is hogging too much space? But combine the bass with clarity and detail and enough out of vocals and treble and this is a fun iem. (Now I can't get the narrowness out of my head.) Preferences might be pretty important as perhaps the IER-Z1R wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea, but in my opinion it outclasses the Solaris. Stuff like the QDC Anole VX and FW10K are a different story. But they have their detractors too. Some people think the FW10K is overdone in sharpness and sounds unrealistic, its bass is lean, and I read a comment that the Anole VX may be bright. But I've also read comments that the Anole VX is better than the rest. Sure costs more.

Maybe the best way to describe the IER-Z1R is that it's a high-end wild party for your ears in in-your-ear form? Picture that, and consider if it's what you're looking for. For some like jmills8 it might mostly pound, but for others it may be the answer that bass-head silliness doesn't provide. What I do not hear is the relaxed wine-like sound some people have associated with these.

Sometimes I can be reminded of the ZX300 a little. There is probably something missing beyond bass. This is still a skewed sound signature in my mind, not v-shaped.

Here's my attempt at objectivity:

Pros

• bass
• depth
• resolution/detail

Cons

• lacking musicality in mids and treble
• soundstage could be wider

Target Audience

• cultured swine

I can't persuade myself these are close to perfect.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I'm listening to Speechless by Lady Gaga, going with the theme of being more likely to listen to songs I wouldn't normally due to lack of engagement with worse "equipment", and I can hear differences between different kind of drums. One drum in particular I'm not used to hearing in other songs, or perhaps I hadn't heard it clearly enough, I'm enjoying the novelty of. It's almost like a very quickly disappearing one, maybe a transient of sort, that the IER-Z1R through the DX228 captures. It's a muted, snappy sound, an entirely stretched out cloth or maybe plastic sound, relatively low-key. It's neat that it sounds sufficiently real to pick up. Her voice comes across well too.

I briefly tried a different ROM/software for the DX220 and while it was less clean and reduced bass it increased separation and soundstage width. This makes me realize, on the other hand, that the IER-Z1R is perhaps kind of compressed horizontally. I think I'm starting to hear some of the remarkable clarity and detail Redcarmoose has been talking about, and while the IER-Z1R's soundstage isn't flat (like I thought the Solaris' was) its width could be significantly better. Or perhaps even the strong bass is hogging too much space? But combine the bass with clarity and detail and enough out of vocals and treble and this is a fun iem. (Now I can't get the narrowness out of my head.) Preferences might be pretty important as perhaps the IER-Z1R wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea, but in my opinion it outclasses the Solaris. Stuff like the QDC Anole VX and FW10K are a different story. But they have their detractors too. Some people think the FW10K is overdone in sharpness and sounds unrealistic, its bass is lean, and I read a comment that the Anole VX may be bright. But I've also read comments that the Anole VX is better than the rest. Sure costs more.

Maybe the best way to describe the IER-Z1R is that it's a high-end wild party for your ears in in-your-ear form? Picture that, and consider if it's what you're looking for. For some like jmills8 it might mostly pound, but for others it may be the answer that bass-head silliness doesn't provide. What I do not hear is the relaxed wine-like sound some people have associated with these.

Sometimes I can be reminded of the ZX300 a little. There is probably something missing beyond bass. This is still a skewed sound signature in my mind, not v-shaped.

Here's my attempt at objectivity:

Pros

• bass
• depth
• resolution/detail

Cons

• lacking musicality in mids and treble
• soundstage could be wider

Target Audience

• cultured swine

I can't persuade myself these are close to perfect.

Lady Gaga is the IER-Z1R style of music, and her voice fits into the mix well.....always. It’s that kind of music that gives you the impression of listening to giant expensive floor standers. IMO

Also well produced EDM makes the most of what the IER-Z1R can do. IMO. That............and getting classic rock to sound natural.

I would agree with all your points though I’m completely amazed at the soundstage width. I wonder why someone would question the soundstage width? Though there is also a thickness front to back that may skew the perception of width. Best width of soundstage came from desktop amplification in my experience, so I believe it’s partially due to source?

 

[Ocelitgol]

I’ve got the Z1R arriving tomorrow from Amazon; I tried canceling the order earlier in the week due to some of the feedback so far, but it was too late.

I’ll see how they compare with my current top IEMs (Solaris, Andromeda, EX1000, Xelento, and SE846) before deciding if to keep them or not.

I’m kinda mixed in emotion, excited to try them but not excited about the cost if they’re not any better than my current IEMs.

P.S. I’ll be driving them with an iPhone dongle, along with various other portable amps (Q5, Mojo, ES100, BTR3, DFR, etc). I tend to prefer the dongle or BT amps for portability.

I'm looking forward to your comparison as well
I have IER M9, Xelento and SE846 (using with ES100 - my ears couldn't tell much difference vs. DAP, the usability makes up for it)

Still deciding if I should sell mine and buy Z1R

 

[cn11]

just keep both

I will most certainly try!

 

[cn11]

It will be nice to hear your impressions with the 1A combo. Though I believe there will not be a bunch owning both the IER-Z1R and qdc VX together. They may end up being complementary so.....maybe so?

Are you running the VX balanced with the 1A?

Have not heard the VX but have heard much of the qdc line. It’s a battle of flagships though...... so it’s exciting......as I would guess they approach things from two opposite directions.

Still my overall guess is the two IEM will end up being appreciated by two distinctly different groups, with no one group being right or wrong, and neither IEM being better or worse; just simply signatures preference in the end.

Yes, running VX balanced with PWaudio No.5 cable. That was a nice improvement over single ended. And I agree that I'll most likely hear two different flavors, with probably an equal amount of strengths by each, just different. We shall see, it'll definitely be a battle.

 

[gerelmx1986]

I already placed my preorder with accessory jack, 1557€